| Author | Message | ||
     Preybird1 |
So a new motor build has me wondering what you guy know and what is the best for longevity and reliability! Please chime in if you have experience with either of these cylinder juggs | ||
| Dfbutler |
Had both. Bruce Nalin does not stand behind his. | ||
| Brinnutz |
wait, you mean Brian? I've talked to several people...And the consensus was nikasil's. I also heard that nikasil is what is used in today's motors for the jappers...porsche's...bmw's. Just a thought. | ||
| Preybird1 |
Alright guy i went and dropped off my bike at the engine builder and had hands on experience with the nika-sil and the failure rate was a 20% of all installed cylinder's and also i saw one that lasted 2 runs on the drag strip! So i will be using the Iron lined cylinders, the aftermarket cylinder have twice the thickness in the sleeve as the stock cylinders do and the benefit of the iron is it can easily be re-bored or honed as the nika-sil is very costly to re-plate and repair them. Also i went with the xb\xl heads with the stage 2 light port and polish. This is if the crank bearing and rod's are ok. If the crank and rod(s) are bad Im going with a balanced crank assembly and a 90" stack with with a new programmable ECM for correct tuning | ||
| Limitedx1 |
nik a sil will never wear down, your rings will but not the cylinder itself. my 2 stroke dirt squirts just need a new set of rings every year. nika sil can be removed and replated. my choice is nika sil when i get the chance to go bigger. having a 2 piece cylinder (iron sleeve) doesnt sound like something i want to deal with.... | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
The plating has always been warranted for life, never found a customer Brian has not supported if the plating failed. This debate will last as long as there still are still cast iron liners around. So for just a little bit of history, when I go back to the days of short piston life European 2-Strokes, Bultaco's and such. We increased the life and reduced our cost, by using a Sunnen hone to keep the cast iron cylinder walls straight. Then we could replace rings once or twice and the piston without boring. The idea then and now is the same, we we want the rings, then the piston to wear, not the cylinder. Today on nikasil coated cylinders we can use a ball hone (which can't cut the harder nikasil) to clean the scrubbed aluminum (piston) or steel (ring) material from a used cylinder and after checking the taper and piston fit, you can install new rings or a piston and ring set. The plating is warranted for life, so reboring is not an issue. Again in the early days of plating aluminum in both autos and bikes we saw a few attempts using chrome as well as other coatings that were less than successful. Today the air transport / aerospace industry's could not survive without wear resistant coatings. The nikasil coated cylinders JT&S uses are Revolution Performance cylinders with the word Millennium cast into each one. Brian's partner is Millennium Technologies an aerospace coating company. In my previous life I have had way too much experience with hard coatings chipping or having a poor bond and the cost of such repairs ran into the $25K to $100K range so if I were not convinced that nikasil was the way to go, I know how to do cast iron correctly. Thanks for allowing me to ramble Terry - JT&S Performance | ||
| Pammy |
We have extensive experience with both. It really depends on the application as to what we use. Not enough bandwidth to detail. We have used both with many miles of trouble free service behind them. | ||
| Creature_x1 |
preybird, the iron lined sleeves they offer are twice as thick as the oem? Then how do they fit? | ||
| Buellboiler |
Are you serious? The inside diameter of the jug casting would be increased by the same amount that the outside diameter of the liner increased. The inside diameter of the liner stays constant for a given engine design. The thicker the liner, the larger the inside diameter of the jug casting, within reason. The same holds for a chrome or other plating, the thicker the plating the larger the inside diameter of the liner. | ||
| Preybird1 |
UPDATE: Awesome good news today, The crank bearing and rods are OK. So it should be a week maybe a little more before it is done. Man i can't wait to ride it back to Utah 507 miles @ no more than 3k on the tach for the break in of the top end for 350 miles. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Make sure you heat cycle the motor a few times before to take off for the long ride...and vary the speed and load to be sure to get the important initial break in done properly.... | ||
| Preybird1 |
I have talked with the builder and the heat cycles will be done for me and a 20 mile ride added to the bike before i get it so it will done right. I really don't want any micro welding to damage my new ring lands. | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
3k on the tach in 5th gear, what is that like 45-50 mph? Have fun with that.. Any way you can take some back roads and make a 2 day trip of it? That way you could vary engine speeds more easily and enjoy the journey instead of staring at superslab for 10+ hours. | ||
| Guell |
i thought 3k in 5th would be about 60ish | ||
| Preybird1 |
This trip in a cager isn't fun and takes 7 hrs at 90. I can imagine it on the bike as terrible and painfully long, Good thing i haven't put the lower handle bars on yet. When i did this trip last week it was the worst rainstorm and wind i have ever seen. the roads were terrible and bumpy as hell and then the highway was shut down on one side and 4 lanes of travel became 2, I just loved the terrible rain and semis whizzing by head on at 80mph in the wind. Just when we thought it could not get worse it did. Some semi hit a safety cone and blew a tire blocking the our lane of travel. Now the game was on, Swerve around the broke down truck into oncoming traffic in this lovely weather and hope you make it and don't die. Now it gets worse, now it starts snowing and were going 35mphs for like an hour losing time. Finally we get there at 11:55 and the liquor store is closing as we drive by and we see people running in. Hotel is 200 feet from liquor store, Too late so we wonder into the only store with no liquor license dam! Then we run across the street to the only other store and find out no beer either after midnight DAM! Note to self: never forget your liquor before leaving on a road trip. Ok what speed does a stock X1 hit at 3000rpm-4000rpm Someone go out and check for us please! | ||
| Jramsey |
About 60 and 80. | ||
| Preybird1 |
Thanks, the max rpm i can hit is 4k but i dont think i will be hitting more than 3500rpm | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
Yep sorry about that, it's definitely not as slow as I though. I have to get my bike back on the road now! Mistakes like that are proof that it's been too long since I last rode! | ||
| Blake |
Looks like some folks have become unwitting accomplices in the endless axe-grinding and smear tactics of one miserable little shop against what is reputable competition. It's a sad way to do business. A drag race engine suffered a failure? Gosh, it MUST be the fault of the cylinders.  "The plating has always been warranted for life, never found a customer Brian has not supported if the plating failed. " Buell Dyno Guy, (Mr. Terry Parsley) another reputable shop co-owner speaks the truth. I've personally seen Brian go WAY beyond reasonable measures to satisfy his customers at Revolution Performance. (Message edited by Blake on May 11, 2009) | ||
| Blake |
If I were fitting new cylinders, I'd be inclined to use the Nikasil configuration. They've worked extremely well on my '97 Cyclone both for street and track including in baking hot 100oF Texas Summers. I think there is probably a good reason why the XBRR engineers and the 1125R/CR Helicon engineers chose nikasil plated aluminum alloy cylinders for those high performance engines. So there's your unbiased answer on the technical question. | ||
| Brinnutz |
Which is why my research concluded with the purchase of Nikasil's from Revolution. I also picked up their lifters as well. I don't know, but the use of it in many of today's motors is was fueled my decision. | ||
| Blake |
What can you say? Some folks are stuck on old tech. Old tech from China even. Preybird got himself some genuine experimental Chinese iron-sleeved cylinders. Congrats Preybird. I bet the salesman at his shop didn't tell him the origin of those cylinders. He was apparently too busy showing him a set of ruined nikasil cylinders instead. The solution? Hey! Let's put a thicker Chinese iron liner in, you know, so that the cylinder won't conduct heat as well as even the stock cylinders. Yeah, that's the ticket. Don't bother with all aluminum alloy nikasil used by the aerospace industry, just have the Chinese slap a heap more iron in there. | ||
| Brinnutz |
As far as I can tell they are American made cylinders: http://www.axtellsales.com/ Based out of Iowa.. Jus 'sayin. | ||
| Phelan |
(deleted) (Message edited by Phelan on May 12, 2009) | ||
| Brinnutz |
True Ross...But, I was curious actually after reading it, so I did some digging. Figured I'd provide others with it as well. Still glad I went with Revolution's but I have yet to mount them...I still need rockerboxes, and a billet motor mount for XB heads. | ||
| Phelan |
(removed) (Message edited by Phelan on May 12, 2009) | ||
| Blake |
If a cylinder isn't badged as Axtell, then it isn't an Axtell product. Axtell doesn't make the type of cylinder described. | ||
| Blake |
Phelan, Speaking truth will never threaten my throat nor the integrity of this forum. I am confident that our sponsors feel likewise. If not, they should find another marketing venue. Not sure why you feel the need to interject here with vague innuendo. It is entirely unhelpful. | ||
| Phelan |
I don't know why I even got into this thread. I was hot last nights from some other stuff, and I let it fuel my choice of vocabulary. For that I apologize. I deleted my previous statements. There is a lot of stuff mentioned that I could argue with, but I'll refrain. I do don't need to repair anyone's impressions of my friends, they seem to do that themselves. | ||
| Preybird1 |
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