| Author |
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Ratbuell
| | Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 11:31 am: | 
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Just wait for the jets. I'm sure you'll be surprised. If it doesn't fix all of it...at least you know they had to be done, one way or another. Jet it right, *then* see if there are still 'personality issues'.
I'm pretty sure feeding it properly will make it happy. I'd be surprised if the jets don't fix it.
I know...waiting sucks. I'm an instant-gratification kinda guy too  If you were closer to MD, I'd just mail you a set of jets....but I doubt they'd arrive before the ones at your dealer will. |
Safetybob
| | Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 11:36 am: |
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Yup, need to do it anyway 195 jet. And yup, I want to know if i am doing on the right path sooner than later :-) Jets should be in this Friday. Thanks for the offer Ratbuell.
So we are in a holding pattern till this weekend. Thanks all for your help with my project. |
4dwuds
| | Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 12:16 pm: |
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Did you check out the timer module yet ? and I know it's a long shot but how about the vacuum fitting on the back side of the carb. replace the plug, they will harden with age and crack giving you a leak. |
Sportyeric
| | Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 12:43 pm: |
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Do you know any other Buellers in the area you could borrow coils and such from? I think I have a couple of spare stock coils that I've held onto just for testing but shipping time and costs from Canada probably would make it a worthless offer to send you one. |
Shupe
| | Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 01:44 pm: |
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What muffler are you running?
Here's my story. New to me M2 had symptoms similar to yours. It would start fine, idle fine and below 1/2 throttle ran pretty good. But give it throttle above 1/2 and nothing. Just noise in the airbox and not much acceleration.
I tried cleaning the carb, swapping the carb, jetting, etc, etc. No diff.
With the jets in it (48/195) when I got it it was really rich at full throttle. I went to a 45 slow and 170 and it stopped the rich stutter, but still no power.
It ran a little better with the K&N filter removed so I replaced that. Still not good.
Checked the muffler. Mine had the Buell Pro (Supertrapp) can. I wasn't familiar with these. I pulled the tube/disc assembly and tried it like that - louder but still no power. I noticed the disc pack was far back in the can, and the bolt holding it in place was missing. When I tried to reinstall found I could not get the end of the tube over the short tube in the front of the can. The end of the tube was buggered.
I removed the whole muffler, cleaned up the end of the tube, got it correctly in position and tapped it down so I could insert the bolt.
Took a ride (reinstalling the tube/disc pack was the only change at this time) -
and wow. It ran great- just like it was supposed to. Pulls hard all the way to 6,500rpm - and that's with the 170 mj still in.
I still can't believe that small a change had such a huge effect, but there it is.
Sorry for the novel, but you may want to check your muffler. |
Firemanjim
| | Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 03:01 pm: |
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My guess is clogged slow jet,you did not mention taking it out and cleaning. The holes in these are very small and clog easily. VOES won't do it. |
Safetybob
| | Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 04:00 pm: |
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The jets were removed during the cleaning an soaked in the solution and compressed air passed through them. I did purchase a 48 and will put that in this time to see if that clears it up.
I will also put a new rubber cab on the plastic port behind the plastic gas intake. And I will report back tonight if that does the trick.
Firemanjim: How much effect does the slow jet have at 2000 rpm and up. I always assumed ( I know what assuming does) that if the idles was bad it was the slow jetting issue, and if it was higher in the RPM that it was a needle /main jet issue. But I have been wrong before :-)
In the archive of this post I have some pictures of the carb apart and other things that I have done to this point.
Thanks all for your ideas and time. |
Safetybob
| | Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 10:25 pm: |
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Replaced the 45 slow jet with the a 47 and replaced the vacuum tube in the back with a new one and zipped tied it on. Took it out for a spin and a bit smoother for maybe 200 rpm ( 2500) bit that is a perception and trying to remember from the last day.
But a lot of back fire pops out the exhaust. This carb is clean. I know the 195 will need to be put in but thought I would try it.
The service manual says for a S1W the main jet should be a 200, and for a s1 195, funny thing is the dealer said HD doesn't make a 200 the largest they make is a 195 so that is what should come in this week.
I am off to the garage to drill out the timing module on it.
Oh and I have a vance and heinz exhaust on it and it is clean and all together.
I don't know any other buellers in the area. Kinda out on a ledge on this one. I am sure there are plenty just haven't looked yet since the buell thing is new to me.
And the VOES checked out fine with the specified vacuum pull and ohm readings.
I think I answered everyone. :-) My wife is now wanting this thing fixed as much as I do so I am not spending all my free time on the thing :-)
I feel that we have eliminated a ton of things thanks to everyone's help.... |
Safetybob
| | Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 10:53 pm: |
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OK drilled out the rivets (do I really need the special HD rivets when I replace? and here are some pics the green goop is tacky and very soft but the actual sensor module doesn't have any bubbles on it.
Is there a way to test this with a meter to see if it is o.k. the service manual does not tell of any procedure.
Again I know I need to replace the main jet but the last owner (talked to today and is willing to help pay for parts to get it running, what a guy, I really trust him all.) that is was running fine when he last had it out. So it should at least run with a 170 main jet in the thing. So I am looking into other areas now. I have worked on cars and bikes for the last 22 years so I do have some basic skills and not completely new to this. But I feel it is some other place besides the carb. But willing to look at everything others have done. I think and my gut is telling me electrical. Which is not my strong suit. |
Sparky
| | Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 11:14 pm: |
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If this bike still has a sidestand switch, I would try temporarily disconnecting the wires from the stand and jumpering the two wire harness wires together just to see if engine vibration above idle speeds is causing an intermittent interruption in the ignition circuit.
It happened to my 96 S1 and a lot of other tuber owners over the years. The symptoms on mine were significant popping out the exhaust followed by complete shutdown. YMMV. |
Snp304
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 07:23 am: |
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I had a very similiar problem. Have a 97 M2. Would run good then start to hesitate stumble, trying to die out, backfire through the exhaust, would pull in the clutch and would would even out and idle etc...I went through the same steps. Carb, coil, cam sensor etc...was sure it was a fuel issue.
It ended up being the kickstand switch. Mine had been disconnected and the wires tied off together, but come to find out, the tab on the harness side connector was broken. It would intermittently come apart. Was a royal pain in the ass. Would really suggest looking there.
I just re-read all your posts and went through exactly the same thing. Since you jumped the switch already, pull on the wire nut (or whatever else you used to jump it) and look at where it connects to the harness. Should be a white connector buried on the left side of the bike.
Here is the thread I started
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/47623/444996.html
(Message edited by snp304 on April 07, 2009) |
Safetybob
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 11:17 am: |
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After my first carb rebuild I started the bike and as it was warming up it would die completely. And with it in neutral the N light on the dash would go off. But it would start with the clutch in. I figured it was a bad kickstand switch so I cut out the switch and soldered then together and put heat-shrink over the soldered area so it would not ground out. But I did this after the harness (white clip) connection. Have not had an issue with starting it without the clutch in or out now.
When I get home tonight (late night for me at the office) I will bypass the connection (white) clip completely and solder and heat shrink and see if that doesn't do the trick.
There is a small black clip connection in the same area as the white one, and not sure what that goes to because nothing is connected to it and there is no male open connection in the area. I was told that the license plate used to be on the hugger (carbon fiber fender) but they would break off. So I am assuming it was a license plate light? But not sure.
I'll post tomorrow if the bypass works.
Any ideas as if the timing module looks bad? What is the green goop it was sticky. I marked the plate and pulled it off nothing bad on the other side. The studs were not very tight but the plate didn't have and marks that showed movement. |
Snp304
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 11:29 am: |
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It looks good to me. My understanding is what happens is that the goop heats up and oozes, exposing the wiring to the extreme heat, causing the problems...I replaced mine, of course before I found the connector problem. I think it was about $45 or so.
You can use machine screws to resecure the plate, not sure what size. |
F_skinner
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 11:40 am: |
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The module looks brand new! Has that been replaced by the previous owner? I think the method for checking to see if it is bad is to force heat or cold onto it while running. Hair Dryer or freon will do it. |
Safetybob
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 01:26 pm: |
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It has not been replaced.
I will use the screws for the plate. I did see something in the manual about the heat and cold
Can't wait to redo the switch. I hope that's it |
Safetybob
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 10:33 pm: |
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Well I cut out the connector completely for the kickstand switch and put in a jumper wire and soldered it in and heat shrank tube around it.
Took it out for a ride no change.
Any other ideas. It is too late to do the hair dryer on the timing module.
main jet should be in on Thursday. |
Psycrow
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 10:40 pm: |
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While you are checking safety switches check the relay they all run to up under the seat. Not just the connection block but the relay itself. Factory HD relays are not sealed and a lot of crud of the back tire can get into them and make for poor connections in the relay itself. |
Chrisrogers3
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 11:10 pm: |
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Bob- Its about time you entered the wonderful world of Buells....
Hurry up and get done with that thing so we can get some riding in!
How does it feel to own more Buells than BMW's?! |
Safetybob
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 11:11 am: |
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Hey chris, wondering when I would find you :-). Nice bike pic on your board. Was that from the TWAT ride we took.
I will dive more into relays and timing verification this Thursday. Another late work night for me.
I know it was replaced (relay) because it is an after market relay, but I did not test it yet. |
Micromachine
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 01:19 pm: |
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just a reminder to check the simple stuff, ive been reading this thread for a while because my lightning has been having some of the same simptoms. it turned out it was my spark plug wires. good luck with your bike |
4dwuds
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 02:54 pm: |
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It might be a long shot as you say it has a new battery, but is it fully charged ? |
Safetybob
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 03:12 pm: |
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Yup fully charged new Odyssey battery. Not a bad question.
I will pick up new spark plug wires. Cant hurt, it is 11 years old. And I think I may just do the new coil to take that out of the equation. And check the relays for the kickstand switch.
Hopefully this thread will end soon. :-) I know a lot about this bike, trial by fire......... |
Safetybob
| | Posted on Thursday, April 09, 2009 - 03:43 pm: |
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O.K. I have a 195 and a 200 main jet should be home in a few hours to change out the main. Going to start with the 200. I also ordered the wires for giggles and some steel gaskets and a new needle just in case, but that will all be here in another 7-10 days. Wish me luck that it takes care of the issue. And I can kill this thread. |
Safetybob
| | Posted on Thursday, April 09, 2009 - 07:58 pm: |
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THANK YOU ALL THAT HAVE GAVE INPUT! IT RUNS LIKE A RAPED APE, AND NOW IT IS FIXED! And you can call me a dumb ass for not thinking of this sooner.
So as the story goes it was something small and and something that I over looked.
Short story it was the DYNO needle seat, and it was in upside down, it can go in both ways.
And now for the long story. So I head to a different dealership to get some wires by one of my plants I work at. The parts department doesn't have any books on the Buell anymore because they do not sell the Buell brand anymore but they are nice and walk me back to service to talk to this guy that owns a white lightening and can figure out some of the HD crossover parts for me.
So we talk through what I have done and he recommends a 200 main jet and stock needle with this special shim under it. He doesn't like the Dyno kit and says I will have better performance with the stock set up and a few minor mods. So I am on my way home and I am thinking I wonder if the needle seat will accept the stock needle and if that came with the Dyno kit or if that is a stock item? Then I was thinking I wonder if that can be put in more than one way?
So I get home and take it apart today. I start to put the 200 main jet in and it doesn't screw into the main bleed tube, oh crap that's right DYNO has a different thread pattern. First thought is to drill and tap it out. Then I was like well let me check out that needle seat and sure enough it has a beveled inside and by flipping it, it would allow for a ton more fuel up about a 1/4 inch worth of needle height. And sure enough it works great. Now I can tune it to a 195 and feel comfortable that I have at least found my problem.
Thanks again for everyone's help. And this thread can finally die, and I can go ride. |
Sleez
| | Posted on Thursday, April 09, 2009 - 11:23 pm: |
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very cool, glad it was an easy fix, live and learn as they say! |
Snp304
| | Posted on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 08:08 am: |
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thank goodness the drama is over. Like I said, I had similiar issues and it drove me nuts. Now my girl is fixed and I can depend on her and it feels great, i'm sure you feel the same way. Enjoy |
4dwuds
| | Posted on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 06:04 pm: |
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GOOD NEWS, now go ride it |
