| Author | Message | ||
     Bhillberg |
I went out to look at my bike just now. It is warm here and I figured I would look it over before I went for a ride in the morning. First thing I noticed is rust on my Force header. I know this is my own neglect that caused this but I got some rem-lube and tried to scrub it off, no luck. As I was down there I looked at the front cylinder and noticed that one of the nuts seemed to back off a bit (not as many threads showing as the other) Then just to see I looked at the rear, stud broken and flange backed completely off. I don't know when this happened. Just rode it a week or so ago. I don't know if the stud is broken to where I can get vice grips on it or not yet. The flange isn't letting me see this. If I can't I am guessing the only way is an easy-out? Any tips would be helpful. I am figuring that once I have it off the rust should be easier to deal with and if all else fails I will get it re-coated. | ||
| Sportyeric |
too much time on my hands! A search came up with this thread :http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/171980.html Particularly interesting is the message of Sept 29 @10:42 am. You might ping him for details. Also, there seems to be a JIMS tool, a plate to keep the bit going the right way. It costs $140 so maybe you could borrow one from somewhere? (Message edited by Sportyeric on March 06, 2009) | ||
| Wardan123 |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/406 2/347210.html?1206659283 I finally got the stud out. I bought a Lisle Stuck Bolt, Nut and Stud Remover and it came out easily. | ||
| Bhillberg |
Ok, So I checked and the stud is flush! any ideas? | ||
| Preybird1 |
Weld a square rod to it or a nut. The heat of the welding will expand the aluminum head and ease removal of the stud, This is the easiest way to get it out. This method only took me 5 minutes. I drilled a smaller diameter hole into the stud so the welded rod would hold better. | ||
| Preybird1 |
If you drill off center it can cause a serious problem and then head may have to come of and then the stud may have to be sleeved to repair it. NO EASY OUT'S IT WILL BREAK OFF IN THE STUD TRUST ME IT WILL!!! NIGHTMARE I broke an easy out in my stud twice, The above mentioned welding trick can solve this but it's better off if you dont do it. Oh and the stud plate can be had from American Sport Bike here is the part number 16029 It's $95.00 now if 2 are broken on the same head your screwed for using this tool (Message edited by preybird1 on March 06, 2009) | ||
| Bhillberg |
I have read over and over the no easy outs verdict. I have no welder though. I am not doubting anyone but did you try the little stubby snap on easy outs? I have used them many times and the neck is pretty stout. Usually they would slip before they would break. I am not doubting anyone just wondering if anyone used these and they still snapped? | ||
| Sleez |
the short spiral ones work pretty good, i got mine from grainger i think. also get a small torch at the local HW store to heat the area up first. make sure the tank is removed and you don't burn anything up. that has worked for front motor mount bolts before. good luck. (Message edited by sleez on March 06, 2009) | ||
| Sleez |
actually it was mcmaster carr, this type, this is the right one for a 5/16, which i believe is the right size; http://www.mcmaster.com/#57195a513/=w1jfz | ||
| Preybird1 |
Yes also some matco stuff's and after 2 of them broke inside the bolt i said never again!! I have a full shop with all the tools you could ever want. If it's work i can't do i take it to a good race bike builder i have here in UTAH!! and he fix's my problems, Not the stealership They tried to tell me i had to "roll out the motor" Which means take the motor out and i was quoted over $800 for this. | ||
| Preybird1 |
Yes also some matco stuff's and after 2 of them broke inside the bolt i said never again!! I have a full shop with all the tools you could ever want. If it's work i can't do i take it to a good race bike builder i have here in UTAH!! and he fix's my problems, Not the stealership They tried to tell me i had to "roll out the motor" Which means take the motor out and i was quoted over $800 for this. What a joke that dealer was! | ||
| Bhillberg |
Ok, so I tried getting the other studs out. I figured that they should be replaced too while I am at it. They were TIGHT. I didn't go at it too long, only tried some wd-40 and double nuting but they did not want to come out at all. I figured maybe the dealership could do a better, quicker job than me and called them. They said that they have to take the entire head off though. Does this seem right? I am willing/wanting to do this job myself but don't want to have the bike down forever | ||
| Sleez |
you might need to apply some heat to the area. i have mine soaking in some PB blaster and they won't budge yet. i am going to try heating the area up a bit and see if that helps. | ||
| Oldog |
B-berg: get the jims tool, its a drill guide. drill out the flush one first, tap the hole to remove the residual stud. I double nutted and loctited the studs allowing the loctite to set, I sprayed "PB blaster" on the stud and allowed it to sit too. Then I used a deep socket and an air impact wrench to remove them, they must not "try to bend or twist" the only force that I applied to them was rotational they came out fairly easy examine your exhaust mounts, your dealer is in business to make money, head removal is required if the head is buggared up or the stud is mis drilled on the drill guide, get a left hand COBALT ( metal not brand ) drill bit the correct size for the guide some times they catch and simply turn out. the big issue is that they can be hard to reach take your time pay attention be careful you can do it. and don't bother with EZ-OUTS unless you want to take the head off. OH BTW ask on the Quick board you may be able to borrow the tool. | ||
| Bhillberg |
I am actually going to probably try some zyglo penetrant. It is the stuff used in non destructive testing used to find cracks not visible to the human eye. Hopefuly this stuff will work. The dealer actually told me that he would drill, use penetrant, heat the head and then use a form of easy out, well if that is the case why go to him? So that he can charge me more for removing the head? I mean if I do jack the head up then I will end up taking it off and taking it to a machine shop that doesn't charge harley prices. | ||
| Limitedx1 |
i got lucky with my broken head isolator bolt, i drilled a small hole in the center then jammed a masonary bit with a carbide head on it and got it to bite and wind the bolt out, i also gently heated the head with a propane torch. the exhaust stud is alot smaller though. if that ever happens to me i am going to man up and buy the jims tool and be done with it. i looked at my studs yesterday and they do not look pretty, i hope they never come loose!!!! | ||
| Oldog |
I replace mine every so often or if they are over stressed. consider it. | ||
| Bhillberg |
Yeah I want to replace all of mine. I will be putting this as a yearly check from now on. At least checking them. I have no problem buying the Jim's tool but my question is does it just give you a guide to drill? I mean what about what is left in there? | ||
| Oldog |
Berg: the guide is a hardened bushing that the drill bit turns in, the guide hold the bit straight and centered, the bit will push out most of the shavings. You use a tap to re cut the threads in the hole. It will usualy pick up the existing threads and just cut the remnant stud out, using a tap turn it in till it catches then 1/4 turn more back it out then, oil it turn it back in and cut about 1/3 more repeat ( in and out ) untill the hole is threaded, IMPORTANT, taps are hard and therefor brittle, do not place side loads on the tap or it will break, if it gets hard to turn in back it all of the way out clean and oil it again. you should go about 3/8 to 1/2" into the head to bottom it out Sorry no the tap is seprate, and BTW some times you can catch the end of the stud with needle nose and it will wind out like a spring. leaving the clean threaded hole ready for a new stud. (Message edited by oldog on March 09, 2009) | ||
| Bhillberg |
so do you just go ahead and use the biggest bit that it will accept the first time or work your way up? | ||
| Bhillberg |
Ok, so I just bit the bullet and went ahead an put in an order to American Sportbike for the tool, SE gaskets, retainer rings and studs, I hope I didn't miss anything and hopefully these things get here soon so I can try to get her back on the road. I will post any progress/mishaps | ||
| Bhillberg |
Went ahead yesterday and asked the dealer for a quote, (F&S) just in case I didn't order the removal tool or if it was going to be quick and not overly expensive I would have them do it just to get it out on the road quicker. Well they said that they had to take the head off to do the job. Then they called me this morning with the quote and said that while they had the head off they would have to replace the lower seals, hone the cylinder and re-ring the piston. Grand total of $750 for the ESTIMATE!!! In not such nice words I told them no thanks. | ||
| Oldog |
Flanged nuts for the exhaust header flanges get'em from the dealer ( this time ) Al's gottem Drilling up is suggested for layout drilling, but not needed for guide drilling. get acouple of the left hand cobalt bits that are bushing size [ I BELEIVE that the drill is #7 (0.201") ] but be sure before purchase as good drill bits aint cheap. (Message edited by oldog on March 10, 2009) | ||
| Bhillberg |
bushing size? I thought you just drilled with the bit they supplied and tapped it out. | ||
| Oldog |
bushing size? I thought you just drilled with the bit they supplied and tapped it out. As I understand it the tool comes with a drill bit. I suggest that you get left hand cobalt high speed steel bits of that size ( bushing size ) the supplied one will work you will need a tap and I suggest a tap wrench ( vermont american will do ) the tap should come from MSC or other industrial supplier not the local hardware store, }greenfield or cleveland are good names avoid inports. | ||
| Bhillberg |
yeah I actually have a nice set of snappy taps with wrench. I was just confused on the left hand drill bit comment. I know what they are used for I just thought that this tool made it so that you pretty much drilled the bolt out and just chased the threads with a tap. | ||
| Oldog |
I actually have a nice set of snappy taps  oooooookeeeeeeee} | ||
| Bhillberg |
Hey it made sense when I bought them. On aircraft I was using the smaller ones all the time and the Snap-On dealer garaunteed all of them for life. So when I snapped a 1/4 inch one because I had to use it a dozen times on one leading edge I just called him and he met me with a new one. Plus I was young with some disposable income so I figured I would get the best then and not have to worry later on when I had actual responsibilities. | ||
| Bhillberg |
actually I stand corrected it is only a blue-point set http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?search=tru e&item_ID=9802&PartNo=ga541&group_id=1166&supersed e=&store=snapon-store&tool=all | ||
| Oldog |
snapping taps conjoures horriffic memories of extracting center drill points and broken bolts and taps from various metal objects  |
