| Author | Message | ||
     Buell78758 |
Well, after the oil pump drive gear went out on my S3T, w/ about 16,000 miles I had to rebuild it. Chips off the gear damaged cam gears, and oil pump. Pinion gear looked ok, but to be safe I replaced also. Cleaned all oil lines ect, I do not think any metal made it past cam areas. So, I wont be cracking the cases open! So here are some pics, plus I have a question on install of cams. Q: with all dots lined up on cams (see pic) we are good to go? That is the only way they go in, according to manual. No liability for answer! I am fully responsible! Q: Will I need to purge air from the oil lines? I am using assembly lube on all the parts to make sure they have lube on start up. Thanks! Q: Any way to get some oil into the lifters? They will have to pressurize back up with oil on start up? Also, list of parts and costs. - Bronze updated oil pump drive gear: $50 American Sport Bike - Gaskets, special tool, timing cover tool: $75 American Sport Bike - Andrews N4 Cams: $250 ebay - New oil pump: $100 ebay - New pinion gear: $100 dealership - Labor: free! Total: $575 or so... Here is blown gear:  Some bits from gear:  Damage to oil pump  New gear  New cams:  Rear rockers off, to take load off lifters. Cam install went well, next steps are install oil pump, put oil in lines, and button everything up.   | ||
| Firemanjim |
Looks good. Oil lines will purge themselves, but be prepared for lifter noise until they pump up. Did you put the upgraded oil pump in--the newest one has deeper scavenge area? | ||
| Buell78758 |
Hi, thanks for your reply. No, the oil pump looks like the same one as before, since it was good price off e-bay I went for it. Thanks! | ||
| Akbuell |
Just a thought re the oil lines: Leave the sparkplugs out, and take the oil tank cap out. Turn the bike over w/the starter, until you see oil returning to the oil tank. Then install the plugs and start. As to the lifters, yeah, they do bleed down and need to pump back up. Makes a pretty good racket until they do. When I did my oil pump drive gear (a precautionary replacement) and started the engine, I began to seriously question whether or not I had done a proper re-assembly. I decided I had done it right, and went on a gentle lap or two of the neighborhood. All was good by the time I returned. And your cams look to be properly timed. | ||
| Kalali |
For the paranoid folks out there like me, what do you think caused the damage, any symptoms, etc.? Does riding style matter? I have an '00 X1 with 14K miles and am wondering if there is anything I could do to prevent something like this...Anything to look for and/or inspect? In my case, I would have to pay someone do the job so the cost would probably be double.. Thanks. | ||
| Kilroy |
Did you pay attention as to how the lifters went back in? The little oiling hole on each lifter has to face out towards the cam cover, not inward, IIRC. | ||
| Hippyjoe |
How long after the boom did the motor run before you shut it down? | ||
| Hippyjoe |
For the paranoid folks out there like me, what do you think caused the damage, any symptoms, etc.? I have an '00 X1 with 14K miles and am wondering if there is anything I could do to prevent something like this...Anything to look for and/or inspect? 1. It failed in a nutshell because it is a Harley motor and they all have quality control issues, even the evos. !a. The long answer in this case has to do with inconsistent angles between the pinion shaft and oil pump, therefore inconsistent interface in the gear mesh. Some are worse than others, some are fine. Why didn't Harley install a bronze gear from the factory to allow for lash? The answer lies somewhere between Why did they change the big twin evo cam bearing mid run to a plastic-raced pos that would cause much the same problem as this... and Why did the late 80's left side big twin cases suddenly puke out all the oil into the primary, resulting in bottom end failure? Again, the short answer... see #1. Lol. 2. You can pull off the oil pump and look at the drive gear with a flashlight and a mirror, something like every time you change the oil. Or you can do like the OP and change out the gear. Or you can do like a lot of guys and just ride and pray, lol. Kind of makes you long for the old AMF days, when all you had to worry about was the rings going bad after a month, or maybe the electrics cutting out on your first night ride, or maybe the tranny falling out. Hell, at least you could just pull over and pick it back up. And didn't need any special tools to put it back in, just 5 3/8 nuts from the hardware store. Lol. | ||
| Buell78758 |
Hi on the various questions: - I think this is a rare, but known, failure. I have 30K miles on my X1 and no problems, but its unpredictable. You can drop the oil pump and look up into the hole to see condition of the gear. Just replacing the gear with updated bronze one would be only $100 or so in parts. You need the special tool to lock down the pinion gear so you can tighten to spec. - I did not remove the lifters, only took off the rockers on one cyl, to relive spring pressure, so lifters should be OK. - The motor ran about 2-3 miles after the gear went out. I was on freeway at about 70 MPH with my wife on back. Heard a "wheeeeeeeeee" (gear teeth spinning off) and oil pressure light went off. It was running ok on avail oil pressure to nurse it home. | ||
| Texastechx1 |
i'm getting ready to do the same thing... my drive gear didn't go BOOM like yours but I did have a leaky paper gasket so I'm going with new gaskets all around, newer style XB oil pump, bronze drive gear, etc. i'll be taking pics and doing a write up as well.  | ||
| Kalali |
Thanks for all the input folks... Note to self: Disassemble engine, transmission and check for uneven wear, replace all gaskets, isolators, front engine mount, check drive-belt free-play and replace if teeth missing, replace oil pump drive gear, look for leaks front and back - with every oil change or every 1000 miles, whichever comes first. Sounds like a good plan? | ||
| Buell78758 |
TexastechX1 A write up would be great, because me and my bro are planning to do the same upgrades on my X1 and his S3 so any tips you have would be great! Be mindful of the cams pulling out of the cases when removing the cam cover....that happened to me on this project. Maybe because the lifters lost oil pressure so the cams could easily come out. Should be able to remove the pinion and do the work with cams remaining in place. Christian | ||
| Bikerjim99 |
I would replace the drive belt with a 2009 belt for the increased reliability, and for the work necessary to replace the stock belt when it does go bad. Now is a good time to refresh the top end, new rings, etc. Please report back when you are done. Good luck Jim | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
Question: What exactly are you looking at in the oil pump to determine that it needs replaced? I'm reassembling my project with new bronze drive gear intact, but if there is damage to look for in the oil pump I'd love to know! | ||
| Buell78758 |
PKforbes87, With the new bronze drive gear you should be good to go. I dont think oil pumps themselves have any problems. The damage to my oil pump was from ingesting one of the broken gear teeth when the drive gear went boom. Christian | ||
| Texastechx1 |
i already got the cam cover off... nice and slow. and NO cams came out... YAY!!! i yanked the tank off, popped BOTH rocker covers off, jacked the rear tire off the ground, clicked the tranny into fifth gear and man handled the rear tire forward until there were no valves open... our engines can barley do this but you can do it with out removing the rockers... aren't we lucky! | ||
| Reepicheep |
Getting the cover off isn't (as much) of the problem, its putting it back on. At least that was my experience on the M2. | ||
| Texastechx1 |
ya, i got mine off anf it wasn'h horrible. but then i realized that i didn;t have ALL the parts so i had to put it back on to keep dust and crap out... that was a small challange but i got it! | ||
| Sportyeric |
Kilroy said:"Did you pay attention as to how the lifters went back in? The little oiling hole on each lifter has to face out towards the cam cover, not inward, IIRC" Is that true? My manual doesn't mention it and I'm sure I paid that no attention. I can still re and re the rocker boxes but I'd rather not. | ||
| Buell78758 |
I did not take the lifters out when I did the work. So I think they should be fine. CN | ||
| Ducxl |
I've been frightened at the prospect of a failed oil pump drive gear. While doing routine maintenance(right NOW)i've pulled the pump down. I'm at almost 21,000 miles.I have wear marks on one side of the drive gear,but at most,they're about .002-.004" deep.I do not consider failure imminent.I'll wait another year and inspect again. | ||
| Dave_02_1200 |
What tools are needed to change the oil pump drive gear? | ||
| Hippyjoe |
You need a pinion gear locking tool like the Jim's one in the pic above. I needed a small gear puller for the pinion gear. To do it right you should have a 1/2" torque wrench for the pinion shaft nut and a 3/8" torque wrench for the rockerbox and gearcase cover allens. A butterfly makes all those allens go faster, or else a cordless drill if you don't have air. | ||
| Buell78758 |
ITS ALIVE!!!!!!  The S3T is all buttoned up. Test rode it, and its flying, running great. The Andrews N4 cams seem to have woke it up a bit, it pulls harder from 3,500 rpm and up, does not have the slight "dip" in the power band like my X1. The idle seems a bit lumpy, and it might have to be boosted slightly. Next is to run it for 50-100 miles then a fresh filter and Mobil 1. (I ran some regular oil just to start it up, then to flush out). Thanks to all the Buellers for your tips! Christian | ||
| Texastechx1 |
glad to hear! | ||
| Buell78758 |
Her she is in all her glory, on the Dragon after March Badness, 2008. I am glad the oil pump drive gear when boom in Austin, where I live and not in Georgia! Tho my buddy blew up his XB, and Buell later gave him a new motor!  | ||
| Gowindward |
Christian, Glad to here you have it back on the road. Gorgeous bike!! | ||
| Buell78758 |
Thanks! Riding it again I realized how much I missed it! CN | ||
| Kalali |
Now that's one beautiful bike...Definitely worth all the work you're putting into it.. | ||
| Blazin_buell |
Chris, you failed to mention that both of your bikes did the Dragon!!! My "25r" go boom and this crazy fool let's his spare Buell go along to Badness. Thanks dude and I'm glad the S3T is up and running again.   | ||
| Hugie03flhr |
Nice Job! and thanks for the pics. Now I know what I'm in for, except the blowing apart thingey.  I'm going to be tearing into my 02 M2 soon. Just trying to find time to pick up the better pump. |
