| Author | Message | ||
     Preybird1 |
I called harley today and they were saying it takes 11 hours to pull the motor! I think they are a bunch of liars. They wanted like $816.00 in labor to (roll out the engine) as they call it. So does it really take this long? I did a compression test and the front cylinder was totally dead 0 psi Rear cylinder had 110 psi which is real close to needing attention. The manual says any cylinder below 12 psi of 120 needs attention! 120 psi is normal and no more than a 10% difference between cylinders Can any of the head work be done with the motor on the chassis? I am not paying 800 bucks ill do it myself! Id rather do a 1250cc bolt on kit for 700. Any help will be greatly appreciated as always. | ||
| Littlebuggles |
Dude! Sorry 'bout your bike. A guy here, tatoodnscrewed or something close to that put xb 9 cylinders, pistons, and xb heads too in and was putting 100 or so down on the ground on his S1 Lightning, I don't recall what cams he put in. I had Salt Lake do just a top end a year or two ago, needed a new head and a valve, total came to around $1400. Do it yourself if you are able. | ||
| Preybird1 |
ouch i can do myself but i do have a trusted machinist. I want to learn but ... I dont want my bike to be the test subject and something go wrong. I am not stupid i did my own repairs on all of the vehicles i have owned for 15 yrs and i am not a mechanic, but i am seriously skeptical of shops. The way the econmy is i see a lot of grasping of strings, Get what you can now! Right but i have been able to fix my own problems no thanks to dealers. Damn 1400.0 ow i will talk to my guys and see what is really up. | ||
| Jramsey |
Any decent wrench should be able to drop the motor in two hours or less. | ||
| Jos51700 |
You don't need to drop the motor unless you're doing bottom-end work. You can have the top end off in alot less than two hours, everything is accessible from the top. You might want to bend up a set of allen keys for the intake manifold to speed things along, but that's just optional. I wouldn't pull the motor yet, you can check the rods while you have the top off, and it's just another couple of bolts to drop the bottom end, but without the storage mess. Personally, I don't like working on a motor that's rolling around anyway. The bike makes a nice motor holder. | ||
| Jos51700 |
Oh, BTW, it sounds like the 'sticks at the HD dealership don't know how to use a flat-rate manual. I think it was 6 hours to R+R a Buell motor, X1 or XB. | ||
| Spiderman |
I can have the whole bike apart and cases split in less than 11 hours LOL | ||
| Preybird1 |
Wow i knew it. And they told me a 1250cc kit from NRHS would not bolt up! Ha Ha its a bolt up kit, They tried to say i had to split case and bore it out. I knew they were full of crap after that. I still need a leak down test but compression is zero in front cylinder. I am just trying to see what i am up against. Thanks guys And thanks jos51700 i like the fact that you are master tech, And are willing to help on this site. (Message edited by preybird1 on October 29, 2008) (Message edited by preybird1 on October 29, 2008) | ||
| Firemanjim |
You could have the heads off in about an hour. You might have something as simple as a burnt valve, easy fix. Engine stays in bike just need a jack underneath as you are removing two top mounts.Too bad you are not closer. I love working on the tube frame bikes. Just did head gaskets on an X-1 and a 1250 kit on an S-2. | ||
| Lazarus401 |
Preybird1, Is this on your X1, or your brothers? That sucks. Dave | ||
| Lake_bueller |
Dropping the motor is the easy part. It's only a few bolts holding everything in place. If I remember correctly...front isolator, lower tie bar to front of frame, upper tie bars and swingarm. Getting it back together is much harder (IMO). | ||
| Preybird1 |
Hey thanks for the offer jim. I wish i was in California now! I am just going to bite the bullet and do it myself. The dealer can kiss off! I am going to take the front head off tomorrow hopefully, If its a piston im going to upgrade to the 1250 kit and a mild stage 2 porting from nrhs I called cycle rama and guy on the phone was a dick! So im not going to buy anything from them! When the bike quit running it just sputtered out and died, when i turn the bike over i dont hear anything making noise in there so i hope it is little stuff! I wanted to get a little more power out of the bike and now may just be the perfect time to do it, While it is still slightly warm here, Anyways im going to trailer out the bike and take a peek inside. I will let you all know what i find out | ||
| Jstfrfun |
BIRD! when are you gonna get it? The dealership is NOT gonna treat you right! Don't take your love to town! The top end can be done easily in the corner of your shop with HAND WRENCHES. Just support the bottom while the top is off. Fireman is a good one to lean on and he's close by for quick questions. | ||
| Preybird1 |
lazarus Yes its my x1, And ghost rider just blew the jug gaskets they are the old paper ones. this happened after a similar hiccup sputter, Oil everywhere and we are both down for the winter...Wait he has xb as well dam him. I got the bike blues.....  it is so nice today and i got tomorrow off and no bikes to ride! I want to do a leak down test before i take head off. But i dont think i can wait for it to get here. | ||
| Jos51700 |
At zero compression, you don't need a leakdown test.... | ||
| Firemanjim |
Why bother, it is either the valve or the piston and it is the same amount of work to get head off to tell which it is. | ||
| Road_thing |
At zero compression, you don't need a leakdown test.... Truer words were never spoken! rt | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Man this is one instance where the fuel injection system sucks. If it was a carb, that leaky seal would have made it idle like crap. If it was messed up ion the rear, the computer would have fouled front plugs trying to richen it up. Once you get this pig running right, it will most likely stay running though. Mine has a gazillion miles on it and the only problems it's had were teething issues early on and problems caused by crappy service techs. Please accept this as encouragement YOU WILL WIN. This bike will make you happy. | ||
| Jramsey |
Doesn't matter if its carb'd or fuel injected a motor with a bad intake manifold seal won't idle or have throttle response worth squat. | ||
| Easy_rider |
You might want to bend up a set of allen keys for the intake manifold to speed things along If X1 clearances are like S3, plan ahead on cutting/grinding an allen key down to clear the frame as well. It may not be necessary, but a lot easier! | ||
| Bad_karma |
Zero compression I would be prepared to split the cases to get all the metal out. Hope I'm wrong. Joe | ||
| Preybird1 |
I have the intake tool from American sport bike, It works better than a cut off allen wrench, it has a wobbly cut to it. If it is a bad repair i will just upgrade. Why repair when you can upgrade. | ||
| Jos51700 |
"Zero compression I would be prepared to split the cases to get all the metal out. Hope I'm wrong. " I'm inclined to agree, but since he didn't report any knocking noises or loud bangs, I'm hoping he just seized a valve in a valve guide. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
If he has a holed piston, I would think that his breather would be puking massive amounts. He probably has a burnt valve. | ||
| Preybird1 |
OK results here guys got the head off and the mother fu#@!$ exhaust valve broke off at the top of the valve springs about a half inch of it, Then the valve slid down and the piston bent the crap out of it and its wedged in the head. So i looked at the piston and it has very minor marks from the valve, It looks ok to run it, So i will take the head to my machinist to get that problem fixed. I think i will be up and running by Thursday next week. Id like to thank firemanjim and jos51700 for the push to do this work myself it was so easy i could not believe it!! I did this tear down in 2.5 hours. Man i could still see the scoring on the cylinder from the original factory honing. This bike only has 8,500 miles, If this valve hadn't broken it would be very reliable for a long time. oh i forgot here is a pic or 2 of the rocker box off. http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/preybird1/Image002-1.jpg http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/preybird1/Image003.jpg Sorry guys you'll have to cut and paste these links to see the pics, photobucket has a problem right now (Message edited by preybird1 on October 30, 2008) | ||
| Preybird1 |
I'm inclined to agree, but since he didn't report any knocking noises or loud bangs, I'm hoping he just seized a valve in a valve guide. UHH... hey i just realized this after reading this again, I was hearing my headphones when this happened its no wonder i didn't hear any loud bangs!!! | ||
| Bad_karma |
Russ Glad I was wrong.  Would suggest you pull the barrels and replace the base gasket. Check the the rod bears for play from the stress of the impacts. A new set of rings and hone of the cylinders to get that fresh seal and power. Good luck. Joe | ||
| Firemanjim |
Ouch, just had an S-2 with new S/E head that had exhaust valve break off the head and it bounced around in there. | ||
| Kilroy |
Gouges / dents on the top of the piston could cause hot spots / pinging later on even if there is nothing structurally wrong with the piston you should replace it | ||
| Jos51700 |
"Man i could still see the scoring on the cylinder from the original factory honing" Fuel injection (and lack of Fuel Wash) kicks azz! This is pretty common on late-model motors. Ditto the bottom-end checking. Also check for rod straightness. (It's hard to see, but if you roll it to TDC's with the cylinders bolted down, and one piston is lower in the hole....). I'm surprised the valve didn't hit impact the piston more, and this has me wondering. I'd flush the oil out of the crank bearings and check for play (ask how if you're not sure how to check play on a roller crank), and then run the crank through several cycles and feel for "indexing" to make sure the races aren't dimpled, as that commonly happens to roller bearing motors that see piston impacts or constant detonation. Be sure to replace the oil when you're done. |
