| Author | Message | ||
     Onahog |
Hey Guys...Were do i begin? I have a 2000 S3t here with 800 miles.. It starts and runs good at idle...Kinda smells rich tho...As soon as I touch the throttle , it dies..If i really roll the throttle, i revs like hell , then let go and it drops off and dies again...restart, no problem..Idle again... It has a race ECM , supertrapp and a open air cleaner... The intake seals are good, no gungy look in the throttle body, no trouble codes...Tps has bin reset...Hmmmmmmm...Im stumped... Any help would be kewl...Thx..hankb.. | ||
| Onahog |
Note:...I do have a power commander on its way, but not sure if thats the cure.... also, Can I just switch the ECM back to the stock one to try it without resetting anything else ? hankb | ||
| Onahog |
tried switching the ECM..no difference.. tried sprayin intake seals..No difference hmmmmm? | ||
| Dave_02_1200 |
Hank, Could your O2 sensor be bad? If so, that could cause the rich condition you describe. ps I love the Race Exhaust you sold me a while back. Put it on my M2 with a Mikuni and it runs great. Good Luck, Dave | ||
| Onahog |
Dave.... Im not sure.. I got this bike last fall...It didnt run right then either...It was discussed abit here, but It got cold, so I couldnt proccced. Now it has warmed up alot and Im trying to get it going... I sold you the race pipe as the wife found it too loud...Im glad it worked good for you...Im new to the FI thing, and if it dont come to the party real quick some how, Im gonna strip it all off and do a carb on it like my S2 has..easy stuff... I gotta make this bike run right or my ol lady will fall down for sure, as it stalls as ya hit the throttle easy..If ya nail it, it goes like Hell..Like it has a low speed fault....No codes appear tho.. RatBuell posted a 02 sensor test back in the fall, but so far I cant find it on here again...Maybe Joe can enlite me again..i will send him a PM... Anyhow, enjoy ur ride Dave...Thx..Hankb. | ||
| Slaughter |
OK - dummmb question: TPS reset after switching ECM? If not, the map can be way off. You letting it warm up before opening the throttle much? That can "confuse" the controller. Mine won't do at all well until the engine is fully warmed up (even after riding about 3 minutes) Yeah... oxy sensor too maybe. Plugs? Kinda hard troubleshooting. Last thing, you drain and refill the tank with fresh gas? | ||
| Jos51700 |
Sounds like a bad ET sensor, but with monitoring data, you're guessing. TPS reset required at EVERY ECM swap, even if the ECM going in was zeroed and nothing changed. | ||
| Onahog |
I was told that one can unhook an ecm at anytime without loosing its settings as long as the battery is disconnected when doin so...The only time the tps needs resetting is if you remove it from the throttle body.. Anyhow, the tps was zeroed after the race ecm was installed... This bike only has 800 miles on it and has sat alot..Tank drained, fresh fuel, injector cleanin additive It doesnt show any trouble codes tho...but falls flat on its face on slow accelleration .Dies! ..The engine was definetly warmed up from bike table tests... i am going to remove the throttle body 2 moro, without disturbing the TPS and check the injectors and all seals...Could possibly be slight leakage even tho a spray test has not revealed one.. Ratb has also provided me with some tests to perform on the 02 and the tps... Heres hoping! Thx for ur input and any more will prove to be helpfull, as I no this DDFI has created problems for many...My thing is, it has just 800 miles, so nothing should be worn out......Hb | ||
| Dfbutler |
Have you done a TPS reset? | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
It sounds like the way mine was running when my throttle shaft broke. the TPS is on the side opposite from the the side your cables go to. The only way that the computer knows when the throttle moves is from the TPS. have you checked dumb things like if the TPS is plugged in or if the rear head temp sensor wire is chafed through? | ||
| Bad_karma |
Hank How is the voltage/battery? Consider taking a shot at ECMSPY, may help. Joe | ||
| Tom_b |
Do a TPS reset if not done. anytime the ecm is unplugged or changed this needs to be done.if still having trouble, then continue trouble shooting. I second checking the throttle shaft also. | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
You have pretty much proved that it is not the ecm so you need to look at mechanical stuff like the throttle shaft and I would also check or replace the fuel filter. After that you need to test each sensor starting with the obvious O2 sensor and I would put a meter on the TPS to check its function. Next I would check the IAT, CHT and ignition timing. It is at least as much work and maybe more expense to switch to a carb - don't do it! | ||
| Onahog |
Thx Guys....i am going to take a few things apart and test...I need to look into ecm spy too....My dealer is 60 miles away, and Id have to load "Again' for a tps reset.. Im starting to wonder if they did it right the first time as they didnt do what it says in the manual for a TPS reset...Hb | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
Im starting to wonder if they did it right the first time as they didnt do what it says in the manual for a TPS reset...Hb making a cable and using ECM SPY is a great place to start. Order the USB adapter and connector now and start reading everything you can find on ECM SPY. That way you will be ready to start as soon as your cable is ready. That said it is unlikely that both ecms would run the same before and after a reset. I wouldn't trust the dealer either and you may find a code when you test it yourself (who knows if they really checked?). Also reset the AFV, that may be so far off that you have not ridden it far enough at the proper throttle setting for it too adjust. DDFI is not all that complicated and other than mysterious, intermittent wiring problems that can plague any vehicle, it is easy to troubleshoot. Tubers are great, and reliable bikes once sorted, but it does take an owner with a mechanical and electrical aptitude to get it done. Forget about having most dealerships work on it, even if they are really, really good it will be expensive to pay them to sort it out. You need to learn it and do it yourself IMO. | ||
| Onahog |
Ok guys... Tps checks out good...1.18v @ idle 4.59 @ full.. Nice steady needle on roll up.. Intake seals not leaking, no stuff in fuel filter but lotsa gas, 4.9 volts at pin 2 & 7 on ecm connector, 4.93 volts at tps connector... Bike idles well...Stalls on slow accel revs fast on quick accell and stalls on slow down about 1500 rpm Surges , backfires heavy at 2500 held steady..Hmmmmmmm would a tps reset not zeroed properly cause all this?...im lost....Carbs forever! hankb... | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
Just out of curiosity Hank (and to play devil's advocate), what would you do if you had the same symptoms with a carb in place? I'm sure others who have had similar symptoms will chime in soon, but I would order the needed parts for the ECM SPY cable today as well as start checking the sensors one by one as well as the electrical connections to them. It is going to be the only way you KNOW that the TPS is set properly, the AFV has been reset and there are no codes. | ||
| Onahog |
Scott...I guess with a carb, there is alot less involved...Thus it makes it much easier to diagnose and repair.. I have just finished doin an 02 sensor voltage test via the instructions in the manual..All checks out good... I tried different spark plugs too..Lol.. Still remains the same ... I do have a power commander on its way, but I dont think that is going to be the cure... Guess my next step is take it back to the dealer i got it from and have him reset the TPS for me, this time acording to the exact description in the manual...hb | ||
| Oldog |
Ok the next place to check is the ET sensor, that skews the entire calculation and makes things goofy. If it runs good at freeway speed O2 is likely Ok, runs ok WOT but not cruise, O2, also check exhaust ground (o2) check battery voltage 13+ at cruise RPM | ||
| Onahog |
ET sensor? Where /what is that one? Hb | ||
| Ratbuell |
Engine temp sensor should be in the rear head. Symptom on that one is usually running well cold and crappy hot, or vice versa... | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
Scott...I guess with a carb, there is alot less involved...Thus it makes it much easier to diagnose and repair.. Sorry to drift from the topic of getting your bike running properly Hank, but your answer does not answer my question. I am curious how you and others who suggest changing to a "simple carburetor" at the 1st sign of FI trouble would specifically diagnose these same symptoms with a carb. I see lots of bikes, Harleys in particular, running like crap with carburetors. It is no secret I prefer FI, and while I'm not flaming anybody who is happy with a carb, I am stirring the pot a little to see if carbs are really that simple... (my brother has a carbureted Ducati that he is having a lot more trouble getting to run right than I do with my FI Buell for instance) | ||
| Onahog |
Rat...Yes ,took me a minute ..i will check the ETs as well... Now hear this theory... Could this be the cam sensor? Over the years, Ive seen people boost HDs with a car...They ended up cooking the cam sensors, but not enough to make em so they didnt run...They just ran really poorly , irratic....Kinda like an older gm car that the electronic ign module in the distributor was starting to die, runs sh-ty I think I have one from an HD here...Im gonna check part #s etc and see if I can temp mount it in and see what happens... Anybodys View here? Thx..Hb | ||
| Onahog |
Scott... I guess us old guys grew up with carbs...We went from the old Linkerts, which were like a huge sponge that ya sgueezed when fuel was reguired, to the tillotson, bendix,keihen,then the Cv, tried S&Ss, Mikunis, You name it man...We had em all... The CV has proven to be a very good carb on any HD engine and is relatively simple to jet/adjust for needs of any motor. I am not giving up on the FI yet, but I do have a carb on the shelf if need be.. . I find it hard for anything to really be wrong with this stuff, cause as I said it has less than 800 original miles ...But, could it have bin Boosted by a car in the last 8 years, or 800 miles? Cam sensor?...But no code stating that either.. ...Hb | ||
| Brokeneck |
Tillotson -- that brings back memories -- had one on my Chopped '60 Sporty back in high school -- with the velocity stack it stuck out from the bike about a foot and a half -- Bneck | ||
| Oldog |
could be the position sensor. but the symptoms dont fit. let me re state. runs ok at idle slowly advance the throttle and it dies blip the throttle to spin it up then wind up the motor ( upper mid range ) seems ok the et sensor will make the bike run lean at times OR ritch at times and can come and go. if the problem is reproducable then that is a plus. can you check the timing sensor, can you get one known good to check with? my experience with this makes me want to believe that the sensor would most likely just quit. | ||
| Onahog |
Ive pretty much come to the conclusion its time to just sh-t can this system.. I am 99% sure Im gonna strip the whole program off, handlebar controls and all and refit with S2 style controls, carb,module,voes etc...then The only sensor i will need to look out for is in the "Piggys radar gun" This system is only 800 original miles old and is already griefing me out...Lol... Anyone interested in this complete system, I will be open to offers once I make up my mind for sure to peel it...Hankb.. | ||
| Brokeneck |
I've got a 2000 S3 had the same feeling while I was in the middle of trying to figure out my injection problem. Finally brought it to the dealer and $62 American later they had me going -- bad engine temp sensor. That was 7500 miles ago no trouble since -- with 3 long interstate tours. I know this is kind of obvious but if it only has 800 miles how is the gas -- the tank -- the lines and the injectors -- by the way looked at your profile -- S3T sure is pretty -- From what I've heard power commander -- bad-- Bneck | ||
| Firemanjim |
ET sensor is the culprit alot of times and the TP reset needs to be done as Al has mapped out here. And a PC can work well but they need to understand the Buells ecm working in the area that is closed loop,any changes here scew the whole map. Get hold of Terry Parsley,he had his S-3 running great with a PC. | ||
| Jos51700 |
"Ive pretty much come to the conclusion its time to just sh-t can this system.. " FI Wins! |
