| Author | Message | ||
     Dave_02_1200 |
I need some advice on this. Several members have said that one should route the hoses from the banjo bolts down, not up. Why is this important? I routed my hoses up and over the motor, then down the left side. I used clear hose so I could see what was in there but so far, nothing appears to be there. Also, no drips out the end of the tube. One poster said it was important to get the "spooge" out of the motor and that if the hoses were routed up the "spooge" would just run back down into the motor where it would accumulate in the rocker boxes. In my past experience, the "spooge" was simply oil with condensation in it. It has a "milky" appearance due to the presence of water in it. The prescribed remedy was to run the bike to heat the oil sufficiently to drive out any condensation. My 1970 Triumph has a crankcase breather setup that routes a hose up from the motor along the rear fender. The intent there was that oil would run back into the motor and gasses would escape from the end of the hose. Is the XL motor different? Any help would be much appreciated because I am an experienced rider but have only owned my XL powered Buells for a relatively short time and I know I have much to learn. Thanks, Dave | ||
| Chasespeed |
I have my breather hoses routed up and over as well. In theory, yes, a constantly down sloping hose, would be ideal, to, help anything continue to run downhill... But, otherwise you are correct... AS long you dont have anything that cna collect in there, and plug the hose, you will be fine.. Its just a breather, not head drain... Hell, the crankcase breather in my diesel is routed all over the place under that thing working towards the back. Chase | ||
| Rick_a |
I went up and over, too. If you use a catch can, letting it drain downhill can result in excessive (needless) spooage getting caught. The condensation will evaporate in a hot motor regardless. All that oil mist can stay in there. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I was able to get my spooge down to a negligible amount by keeping the oil in the oil bag very low, where it just touches the dipstick, if at all. I notice the oil level barely moves if you let it run down to a lower level in the bag. Most of what I empty from my catch-can is water with maybe a 1/4 teaspoon of spooge (it goes to about 1/2 teaspoon in the winter). To make up for less oil in the bag, I use the long Dyna filter and still get a full 2 1/2 quarts. I use to think my bike ate a lot of oil, but apparently most of it was being lost to spooge production. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I had my origial breather set-up running up and over the engine and never had a problem that I could see (that I could tell). I didn't notice any spooge back-up in the heads or hoses when I pulled everything off to do my rocker gaskets. It's all moot if you get XB rocker covers. | ||
| Guell |
I notice the oil level barely moves if you let it run down to a lower level in the bag. ive noticed the same with my m2, when i first bought it, i was constantly filling it up, but it was just puking it out. Now, like daniel, i just let it barely touch the dipstick, if at all. | ||
| Tunes |
On my '99 S3, I too ran the hose up and over the engine, all the way to the rear of the bike... no catch can. Like already mentioned... it's an engine breather and does it's job well. The engine breathers on the XB's is on top of the rocker boxes... so running the breather hose on top of the engine is not a problem. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I do see the merits of using gravity to help evacuate those breather lines. Gravity is free and it's always there. Why fight it? The second version of my breather routing had all the lines pointed down along their length. Was it more efficient? Sure. But did it really make a difference? I don't really know. I don't think it's a huge bugaboo if you run the lines over the engine, but keeping the lines pointed down along their length makes sense when you add a few feet more of breather hose to the system. I just like the synergy. I am compelled by it. | ||
| Guell |
im converting to xb rocker covers this summer, so no more spooge hopefully! (Message edited by guell on March 09, 2008) | ||
| Flyingyankee |
I have the banjo bolt set up on my 97 M2, which have two hoses that come down into either side of a small breather below my air filter. For a while, it puked oil, because the book said to keep the oil level at the top mark on the dipstick. I have found however, that keeping the oil level in the middle between the top and the bottom marks resulted in no more puking. A buddy of mone is converting his 97 S3 to Xb rocker covers, I might too, but since I'm not having any problems, I'm still on the fence. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Before I installed the XB rocker covers I tried both up and down routing. When I had them routed up, I noticed bigger spooge "burps" on occasion. Especially after hard runs. When the hoses were routed down, the "output" was more consistant without the "burps". It was much worse before doing the RB modifications. (drilling out the drain back hole and chamfering the umbrella valve hole.) I think the burps occured because running the hoses upward allowed pooling before the belch. | ||
| Jackbequick |
The more I read about this the more I think the rate of blowby/discharge might relate to over filling. I read a lot about the overfilling/blown oil bag caps issues when I first got my M2. It was due for an oil change so I warmed it up good and got the sump drained with one hour ride and did a oil and filter change, adding exactly the specified amount. Then I warmed it up and took a 15 minute ride. Immediately on return I put it on the side stand on hard level concrete, and the oil was barely touching the end of the dip stick. Maybe 1/4" of immersion, at best. But I was confident that it had enough oil in it and fought off my inclination to add a little extra thinking "more would be better." After it set overnight or for some days, the oil would not even be on the dip stick. I use a small piece of 1/4" dowel and started dipping the tank cold before I rode and it was low but at a consistent level. And if I rode it would come back up to just touching. About 2,000 miles later I changed the oil and filter again, measured the drained oil (including the oil from the filter) and had about four or five ounces less than I started with. Eventually my standard oil level check was that I did it on return from a ride, on the side stand, and looked for the dip stick to be just touching the oil surface or maybe 1/8" to 1/4" up on the stick. I started occasionally adding one or two ounces or so to bring it back up to that but only on a well warmed bike and immediately after a ride. A secondary issue is that there is pressure on the oil bag when the engine is running. This is caused by the over scavenging oil pump moving some air into the tank along with the oil. You can see the pressure by running the engine at a fast idle, 2,500 RPM or so for 15 seconds or so and then popping the cap off. You'll hear and feel the pressure. It is not much and won't make a mess at that RPM and duration but I think it is higher when you are booking along at a steady higher speed. So overfilling the tank also may increase the pressure on the oil bag because there would be less air space there. All that, and the filling level, may be a factor in differences the amount of breather system discharge we see from one bike to another. I accidentally pinched off my rocker arm cover breather vent with a cable tie one time and did not notice any problems until I rode about 2 hours at around 55-70 MPH. I stopped for fuel and there was oil all over the underside of the seat pan, and on the back of the bike from the vent tube back there. I snipped the cable tie and the problem stopped. It took four or five ounces of oil to get my level back up to normal after that run. So there is a fine balance on the oil level and lube system pressure. And it looks like changing any of the variables can cause issues. Jack | ||
| Werewulf |
jack, how much oil did you decide was the correct amount, when you do an oil change? | ||
| Djkaplan |
I do what Jack does with excellent results. Letting the oil level in the bag just touch the dipstick (or get very close to it) reduced spooge production by about 75-85%. Just letting the oil level go down to where it stabilizes itself cut oil consumption by an incredible amount, too. I could barely believe it. I also use a larger oil filter (long HD) to keep overall quantity the same at around 2 1/2 quarts (and have XB rocker covers). Everyone should try this if your bike is blowing spooge (try it before XB rocker covers). Keep an eye on it, though! Don't let the bike run dry! | ||
| Mikef5000 |
My tubes run up about an inch, and then straight back, and downhill, into a catch can. The way I understand it, the tubes run straight up inside the engine, would it make much of a difference to let them run up another inch or two on the outside of the engine? It is amazing the crap that comes out of that catch can! Normal riding (almost entirely city, or twistys) I get a lot of the milkly moisture and oil mixture. Highway riding I get more oil, black, liquidy oil Cold weather (20-40 degrees) I get WATER! LOTS AND LOTS of water! Like the entire can fills up to the top with water! Then there's a little oil slime on top of the oil. I'm too paranoid to run my oil below the stick, so I keep it consistantly at the 'low' line. I do have to add a little bit often to keep it there (again with the paranoid). |
