| Author | Message | ||
     Hillbilly |
I see hear that xb heads will make my s1 run better.What else do I need to change?May be mount,header2in-2.5,push rod,tubs,thunder storm pistons???? | ||
| Ratbuell |
XB heads require XB pistons, a new front motor mount (see americansportbike.com), and while you're there you may as well change to the XB rocker boxes. Not required, but they reduce puke. Intake/exhaust will all bolt right up. Unless you cut your cylinders for compression, your pushrods should work just fine, or you can get a set of adjustable / quick install pushrods if you want. There are also XB-grind cams available for the tubers, but I don't remember the number for them offhand. The nice thing about the XB cams is they're nicer to the valvetrain than an N2 or N4 - they have a more gradual ramp open/close, so they produce less of a "hit" thru the pushrod to the rocker and valve. I think lift is the same as the S/E 585 (?) cams, just a gentler ramp. If you change cams, you should install a bronze oil pump gear and check all the cam bushings while you're in there. For my money, I'd save some hassle and put thunderstorm heads, pistons, and the "lightning component" cams (X1 grind) in the bike. (This is based on you calling it an "S1", assuming it's a non-thunderstorm bike) I did that upgrade to my S2 and it's great on the street, has plenty of power, and is low-stress enough to be reliable everyday. I have an S1W that is factory thunderstorm and it runs stronger down low than the S2 because of the pulleys (the S2 has a half-euro pulley set for cruising; the S1W is "shorter" geared for better acceleration), but both of them are plenty quick for everyday knockaround and performance. And, you don't have to change a motor mount -billet is expensive! I also run the Buell "race" ignition box in both bikes for a stronger advance curve. | ||
| Hillbilly |
I read here somwhere that someone is getting 91 hp to the rear tire.Is that about the same for the thunderstorm seup?Mine is just a S1 w/o Thunderstorm for now..Thanks | ||
| Aaomy |
hillbilly ,, first you need to answer a couple questions.. 1 what are you current cylinder heads? 2 at this point are you planing on boring your cylinders and replacing pistons? both these play a role in cost.. peeked at your profile,, fl,, kinda warm.. here is a quick rundown.. firestorm heads or newer sporty ones,, if you have flat top pistons could be a direct bolt on, with a new motormount... better cooling larger fins. if on budget can run your stock rockerboxes and breather set up just fine.. sportster ones are already drilled to bolt up your carb. thunderstorm heads.. if you currently have these i would say just keep them and invest in some head work.. end result will probably be better than stock firestroms heads.. for same price.. if you are reboring you cylinders,, then it dosent really matter because you are buying new pistons and could easily go either way? hope this helps some .. if you need more info,, just ask,, my current set up is firestrom heads on a s2t.. aaron let us know which way you go and youll get lots more help full info.. | ||
| Firemanjim |
You are wrong on that one,Aaron. Stock Xb style heads flow better that a ported set of T-storms. | ||
| Loki |
This is my personal experience. I have XB heads on my '97 S1. Using the stock S1 pistons in a set of XB cylinders. I have absolutely no problems with this set-up. Yes, I give up some compression. The dyno has me in the 84hp zone. There is some room to grow. Like taking the top off and dropping in a set of XB12 pistons. For that matter sending the heads out for cutting to match a set of TStorm pistons. | ||
| Tattoodnscrewd |
I will also add that XB pistons are not requires with XB heads ... but will yield more power (if using XB9 pistons - due to higher compression(not really worth using the XB12 pistons) - but then you need a bigger carb (44mm CV) and a selectable curve ignition to take full advantage of the setup, and because of the higher compression ... TONS of info in the archives on this.. I also have dyno runs posted - I had 97hp at the wheel ... with a stock carb and crap exhaust ... when I swap the carb and have it retuned with a good exhaust, it will throw down 105-108hp, and yes - at the wheel, it's already been done locally on an S3... +1 on what Jim said about XB heads .. but of course you can port them, add bigger valves and obviously gain more there .. but usually there is no need.... The only other part you will need is the motor mount, your S1 pushrods can be re-used, I think you can use your S1's rocker boxes, but it isn't recommnended ... XB boxes are much better .. (2 piece a opposed to 3, and yes - less puke) - other than that it is swap and ride .. (dyno tune it though first) (Message edited by tattoodnscrewd on February 10, 2008) (Message edited by tattoodnscrewd on February 10, 2008) | ||
| Buellistic |
Why not XL1200R heads ??? In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Hillbilly |
My heads and pistons are stock 98 S1 and the 2in header with a V/H muffler.The stock carb I rejeted but I think it may be to rich. When I put intake and carb seals on last week there was alot of carbon on the intake valves.plugs looked a little black. | ||
| Buellistic |
You should see the intake valves in my 97S3T when "i" change the intake seals as it has 100,000 mile on it ... In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Alex |
Gentlemen, it is a fairy-tale that stock XB heads outflow ported Thunderstorms unless the head porter is an idiot. Regards Alex | ||
| Buellistic |
Only if the THUNDERSTORM Head a fine tuned ported !!! In BUELLing LaFayette (Message edited by buellistic on February 12, 2008) | ||
| Alex |
What exactly do You mean? | ||
| Littlebuggles |
...really, Buellistic, you use a lot of CAPS and exclamations; that can be hard to understand when others are using numbers, dyno results, and simple garage English to explain their work and results... | ||
| Igneroid |
Read his signature in all his posts in this thread carefully. You guys are getting yanked.....  | ||
| Aaomy |
hillbilly,, if your bike is a little rich,, when is the last time you cleaned or changed your air filter.. if it wasnt too rich before, a pluged or dirty air filter will reduce air flow and cause extra fuel to be drawn from the carb.. or has it always been a little too rich.?? hope this helps,, aaron | ||
| Firemanjim |
I was told that by a head porter of some standing--B.Nallin. | ||
| Buellistic |
Alex: Stock OEM Part XB(Xl1200R) ports will flow better than the THUNDERSTORM ports !!! Littlebuggies: Have read the NUMBERS as you can if you LURK on this web site long enough ... Your task is to read and learn here, of course some times it is confusing because of some of the OPINIONATED "OPINIONS" ... Igneroid: That was a SPELLING "ERROR", as what "i" posted is no "BUELLschite" !!! And Firemanjim is not "BUELLschiting" either !!! In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Aaomy |
hillbilly sorry for starting this on your post.. firemanm and buellistic,, i know that firestorm heads flow better that stock thunderstorm heads, and even better than the factory thunderstorm "high flow" heads. but what i dont know is if (stock) firestorm heads would flow better than stage three thunderstorm heads. that a stock port can flow better than a fully worked and finessed port and probably enlarged valve head? | ||
| Tattoodnscrewd |
I think the issue that presents itself is cost vs. result ... A stock set of XB heads out of the box do flow better than ported T-storm heads .. as Jim said - the guys at Nallin confirm it, as do the guys at Hal's Speed Shop, who are highly respected for the work they do , including Buell specific stuff.. when I did my bike I was told that they tried to make a set of T-storm heads flow as good but could not .. I do agree that an extensive porting and much bigger valves might flow better .. but at what cost ? I think many would rather slap on an out of the box part that actually performs for the same or less money than doing extensive work on a set of inferior heads .. just my opinion .. but it makes sense .. I don't think it would be money well spent doing the extra work on the T-storms as it will by far exceed the cost of the off the shelf XB heads without a significant, if any improvement over the stock XB heads .. (Message edited by tattoodnscrewd on February 12, 2008) (Message edited by tattoodnscrewd on February 12, 2008) | ||
| Buellistic |
The XL1200R Heads have the same combustion chamber and port shape as the XB(firestorm heads) !!! Just love RETRO-FITS !!! In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Tattoodnscrewd |
Agreed Buellistic .... and they have the black heads with diamond cut/style fin edges ... however they do cost a pretty penny more ... I think it was about 100 bucks per head more than the standard XB heads .. one nice thing about them for us carb'd guys though is that they have the bosses pre-drilled for a carb mount whereas the XB heads do not .. | ||
| Alex |
Buellistic, please read carefully what I wrote. Jim said that stock XB heads flow better than a set of PORTED Thunderstorm heads. I said this is a fairy-tale (as long as the head porter knows his business). Even Your comment about stock XB heads flowing better than STOCK Thunderstorm heads is questionable. There are some areas within the valve lift curve where they flow better but there are areas where they flow less as well. And not all heads flow the same. Tattoodnscrewd, I do offer a head porting for the Thunderstorm head that will easily outflow the stock XB head while still keeping stock valves. No need to go big on the valves. Alex M-TeK Engineering | ||
| V74 |
hi alex,any pics of your porting ? as would like to see what you do | ||
| Alex |
V74, send me a pm with Your e-mail address and I will send You a picture of a set of reworked heads. | ||
| Hillbilly |
AQOMY.I rejetted the carb last sumer and I had 2 sets of jets and I picked the biggest,maybe it was to much for my bike.I think maybe it has been runnig a little rich since then. | ||
| Hillbilly |
An other question.I have read here that XB12 heads work the best with XB9 pistons on a S! to get the most compression 12-1 or 12.5-1 would you agree.Would that blow alot of head gaskets with that much compression or are there better gaskets than stock? And what about the bosses having to be drilled for a carb mount? Can I do that with a drill and tap? | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
I am very interested in this discussion and pictures are nice to look at but what good do they do? Even flow numbers don't really tell the whole story. You can hog out a head until it flows, but if you have killed the velocity then it is not going to fill the cylinder very well. I would want Dyno curves for both heads run with the same compression ratio, cam and induction system before I would be convinced of anything! (Message edited by scott_in_nh on February 16, 2008) | ||
| Hillbilly |
I found that info a few pages back in old school buell form.I think it said up to 108hp to the rear tire. | ||
| Skntpig |
HMMM. It depends on what you are tuning for. I have an s1 and shrink ported the heads and it will rip your arms off from about 1,800 rpms. Sure I lost a few HP up top. I love the difference in midrange and torque. I straightened the intake track in the top of the bowl, rounded the intake floor and Dport welded the exhaust for higher velocity. My stock ports were TOO BIG. Ever hear of a 1200 sport with 883 heads making big power? Silly flowbenches...Big CFM doesn't make for a powerful motor. (Big Reversion) Can't wait to hear the replies. Good info on here thanks for the help on many issues over the years. |
