| Author | Message | ||
     Medic24 |
I recently purchased a 95 S2. I have noticed some pulsating in the front brake. The rotor is tight to the wheel. I thought this was a floating type rotor. It is the 9 bolt type. The manual does not show this type rotor. Can anyone shed some light on this. | ||
| Onahog |
Hi....My S2T has the 9 pin as well... They have a slight warpage problem... I believe all early S2s came with the 6 pin rotor, then recalled to the 9pin...It will work fine like that if it isnt warped alot...Ive looked at the later 9pin style and find that they all have Hard spots in them...Like poor material or something... I know RatBuell put an aftermarket on his and it apparently was a night and day difference... maybe he could shed some light on it for ya as well...They say the newer ones dont warp as easy as the rotor is in the same plane as the carrier.....Hmmmmm!.....Onahog.. | ||
| Aaomy |
your original rotor should be a 9 pin with offset carrier.. then buell went with the in-line carrier 6 button .. light and pretty.. the new ones are in-line 9 button again with stainless rotors.. the original are cast iron.. another way to tell is the original 9 button s2 rotors are drilled. the latter 6 button and 9 buttons are slotted.. the original 9 buttons used to get loose. real loose.. and they made a shim kit with wave washers for this.. if people installed too many wave washers.. then the disk wont float on the carriers.. plus the original rotors,, cast iron,,= rust!!! check the rotor and make sure you just arnt feeling rust grabbing.. if the bike has not been ridden in a while.. hope some of this helps. aaron | ||
| Court |
The original disc (9 button) was 45118-94Y riding on a 45116-94Y carrier. Many folks, myownself included, have replaced it with 45166-00Y (which includes 9 button carrier). The 9 buttons on the early rotor were in groups of 3. The 9 buttons on the 2000 rotor are arranged at uniform intervals about the rotor/carrier. | ||
| Medic24 |
How tight should the bolts be that hold the rotor on. Should there be any play in the rotor. It is tight as it is now. Talked to a guy at the dealer who raced the tube frames and he said the rotor should be somewhat loose. Said it should rattle a little. Thanks for your help. | ||
| Medic24 |
Thanks Court I didnt see your post until after my last one. Should these bolts let the rotor float somewhat. My rotor is the type with the bolts in groups of three. with 9 bolts. | ||
| Court |
Send me a photo of your rotor and I can send you the detailed shop data. I'll PM you with an e-mail address. | ||
| Ratbuell |
The rotor should float a little (like barely perceptible) side-to-side, but rattling is bad. Get the wave washer kit (I can get the PN Friday when I'm back at work) and it'll take care of the rattle. The rotor should be snug, not loose. The carrier-to-rotor bolts are shouldered, tighten them till they stop. There should not be any play fore and aft, or in the direction of rotation. That is a sign of a worn carrier or rotor or both. My bike would roll nearly 1/2" down the road with the front brake locked, there was that much play in the actual bushings. The way to check this is to hold the wheel with one hand and push on the actual braking surface of the rotor. Or, do like I did - clamp hard on the front brake in the garage and try to roll the bike forward and backward. I did score a nearly-free EBC rotor so I installed that. Love it, stops great, makes a cool "wizzzzzzz" sound when you're using it  Only thing I don't like about the EBC is the carrier isn't very open and it hides a lot of the wheel. I may end up swapping it onto my S1W just for the performance aspect...but since I ride the S2 everyday I may just keep it on there for safety. | ||
| Onahog |
Ok...Now I no the word on the Buell front rotors...Thx Guys....I kinda like my rattly old 9 pin....Good ol Buell character! Onahog.... | ||
| Mikej |
"but rattling is bad" Oh oh, mine sings like a cymbal. | ||
| Firemanjim |
Might be pads,try swapping inside to out made a differnce on mine,rotor was fine | ||
| Ratbuell |
Or just give the carrier a whack with your palm while the bike is in the garage. And to avoid any undue alarm. "Rattling is (the beginning of) bad". It will only go downhill from there, and the wave washers are cheap. | ||
| Aaomy |
another quick thing to look at is to make sure that the brake rotor runs directly down the center of your caliper.. pm used to make a shim kit to help correct it if is was not.. if you caliper was out of alignment and new pads were installed they could " push" the rotor over making it appear that there was no play in the rotor side to side.. you could also loosen the bolts that mount the caliper to the front fork and see if you feel any play between the rotor and carrier.. just dont forget to re tighten them to spec and use blue locktite,,, hope some of this helps.. aaron | ||
| Shot_gun |
While we are on the subject. Has any one compared the castiron stopping power to a stainless steel rotor. I wonder wether the average joe will pick out much difference. I still have the original rotor and it has wrecked my pm front wheel. It's always a hassle to keep it clean. S_G | ||
| S2pengy |
Cast iron stopped the best for me but rusted very easy.. Keep in mind this was with stock Buell pads... | ||
| Onahog |
Court...Would ya happen to have the part # for the wave washers to "Shutup" my original 9 pin? Ratb is gonna look into some for me.. My rotor is good, it has some sideways motion , but no for and aft motion... Also I looked and there is no wave washers in there now....If memory recalls, on my new 1995 S2, buell supplied the wave washers as an update, then they replaced for the whinners , like me, with a 6 pin.... Guess the 1996 I have now, never got either update.....No whinner owners when warranty was a happenin! ...HB | ||
| Bluesboy |
Series 1:The drive pins are bolted dirctly to the carrier,with only the rotor floating.Note also that the carrier is a full 360 degrees,making this the heaviest of the 3 series of brakes.Series 2  oth the rotor and drive pin flote,and the carrier has been significantly reduced in size,and series 3:the drive pins were secured with E-clip(didnt work) back to series 2.Thanks BATTLE 2WIN.Hpoe this helps.BB | ||
| Shot_gun |
S2, did you try the stainless rotor with stock pads also? Was it a dramatic difference. Could you make it up with softer pads if there was a difference? | ||
| Court |
>>> E-clip(didnt work) The e-clip worked fine. They were commonly used on a host of high end bikes that year. The problem was that it was very subject to failure as a result of improper handling and was replaced with the bolt. The purpose of the wave washers was not to "silence" the noise although that was the effect. I'm not sure the wave washers and bolts will work with the original S2 rotor/carrier as they were designed to work with the 2nd generation KH rotor. Hank, drop me a note with a pic of your rotor and your address. | ||
| S2pengy |
1st generation rotor (rotor mounted to the side of the carrier) had smaller diameter pins and washers, so the kit will not work... Shot_gun, yes, I did use the factory pads with the latest and 2nd generation stainless discs (2nd generation had cast iron early on), works but not as much grab. I also have used several aftermarket pads which work well with the latest rotors, but the best stop especially if you like stoppies were the cast iron rotors. The problem with 1st generation was warping (you felt pulsing when applying the brake), 2nd generation was rattle caused by wear on the carrier. The elliptical cut outs on the carrier would wear side to side and also fore and aft.. Side to side you can shim but fore and aft was a scrap out.... | ||
| Onahog |
Court...Heres a pic of my 9 pin rotor. hankb@mts.net  | ||
| Medic24 |
Onahog you have the same type setup as I do. How much sideways movement do you have in your rotor. Nice looking bike. | ||
| Onahog |
Guesstimate... .040-.050  | ||
| Ratbuell |
BW856.9 is the wave washer part number, they list at $2.05/each. | ||
| Shot_gun |
Thanks S2. I'm not much of a stopie kind of guy. I have been through to carriers though. The disk seems fine but there have been a couple times when I've hammered the front brakes and thats when it has warped the carrier. I'll have to figure out what I'm going to do the season. Thanks. S_G | ||
| 1313 |
 1st generation rotor (rotor mounted to the side of the carrier) had smaller diameter pins and washers, so the kit will not work... S2pengy is mainly correct. There were no wave washers used on the S2 front rotor. The BW856.9 wave washer part number Ratbuell posted is actually an S1 part number (all .9 part numbers were originally used on '96 S1's) and it will not fit the smaller 'top hat' or pin of the S2. I never used my original front rotor long enough to have it rattle (didn't like the rust or the 'whirr' noise that the cross drilled rotor made), but have had plenty of rattling rotors with the original 6 pin S1 style. Currently have the '00-up Nissin front rotor (9 pin evenly spaced) on mine as Court does. It's the best I've used so far. On the S1 6 pin style replacing the wave washers does help - for awhile. When I was running that style, I actually went through a couple of carriers as the pressure of the wave washers would actually wear the carrier over time. The later larger (outer) diameter (on the base of the top hat, not the diameter that 'mates' up to the rotor) pins on the 6 pin style was an attempt to distribute the forces over a larger area which helped, but I still feel the Nissin '00-up style is the best I've run to this point. If your S2 front rotor is tight with no free play, there is only one reason it could be binding. Fit between the pin cutouts in the rotor and the pin. Early S2's had the bolt hole in the carrier spec'd at .250, which field data said was a little too tight so a running change was made to up the size to the next common size (.257 is a letter F drill bit, but for some reason .255 sticks in my head) to free it up a little. Since I've never had the original S2 front rotor on long enough to rattle this is only my assumption, but I'm presuming the cause of the rattling could be wear on the pins from the rotor. Cast iron is stronger than 'regular' steel. Or if run for long enough with the pads not centered around the rotor as Aaomy mentioned - with the outboard pad contacting the rotor first - I could see the carrier wearing (but there is such a large surface area of contact my thought is that it would take a long while for this wear to occur). Some facts and some speculation and I find myself 2 cents short again. But I hope this helps everyone more than it confuses. 1313  | ||
| Court |
>>>Some facts and some speculation and I find myself 2 cents short again. It's your age . . ya done good. I love reading this stuff. Home tomorrow? I'l call. | ||
| Onahog |
Ok...The play I have is between # 14{rotor} and the inner shoulder of #15...Button.. Its about .050.... ratb states the inner dia of the wave washer is about1/2", thus it will fit over the shoulder of the button and apply slight pressure to the face of the rotor...capish? Now my ??? is....Did Buell not offer this as fix before they would warranty the 9 pin with the 6 pin back in about 1998? Oldtimers has set in up here in the white North, plus a slight tad of brain freeze, but Im sure i did this once before... Please correct me if rat B and I are totally outa reality here.....Hankb...  |
