| Author | Message | ||
     Wile_ecoyote |
Anyone ever done a carb conversion on an X1? Wondering what real benefits they would have. | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
What "benefits" are you hoping for? Why are you considering the swap? | ||
| Wile_ecoyote |
Had seen the conversion on Hillbilly Motors and they claim an improvement in driveability and hp. How could this be, I wonder. Just was askin if anyone had done it and how it worked. | ||
| Sportsman |
8 years ago when FI was new, not many people understood mapping and reseting TPS and it frustrated alot of folks. People did convert them back to a carb. Now you can screw with a carb every day and never get the reliability or perfomance of FI. | ||
| Wile_ecoyote |
I think my F.I. would be hard to beat. Maybe if it were a monster motor where the injectors couldnt keep up. | ||
| Madduck |
Well done carb conversion can be as reliable and make as much power as a modern FI system. The main advantages are in reduction of complex parts not easily found on the road, same as for replacing solid state ignitions with point systems. Bump starting with a dead battery is much easier with a gravity fed carb. For racing applications not having a high pressure fuel delivery system has several real safety advantages. FI systems have become so trouble free that most of us never worry about repairing them away from home. I would prefer a gravity fed carb over any of the FI systems on my personal motorcycle. Am thinking of changing over my 07 Street Glide and have looked into changing the ULY too. The ULY would still need a fuel pump so its conversion is much less attractive. (Message edited by MadDuck on December 30, 2007) | ||
| Aesquire |
Carbs are old school..... i.e., simpler to maintain with few tools, easier to repair roadside. The downside is a more limited analog nature of available adjustment. Also jets are separate purchases, and easily lost. Upside is you probably only need jets during tuning & for large altitude changes with a Mikuni carb. Converting from F.I. to a carb also requires a new ignition system. F.I. SHOULD provide cleaner fuel delivery & the ability to adjust mixture for optimum performance & minimum emissions. In practice, this is usually true. On a tube frame Buell, the F.I. OEM setup is adaptable to basic performance mods ( at least with the race ECM ) such as slip on mufflers & different airbox set ups. I don't think it's as user friendly as it could be, but I haven't looked at the latest in tuning tools, not having F.I.. I know you need extra black box's to tune for larger performance mods. On the XB's the downdraft F.I. set up seems more high tech than the tuber's, and is far more work to convert to a downdraft carb. ( I'm guessing ) I don't think I'd convert a Uly or other XB, and if it's running well, I'd keep an X-1 injected. I would think about spending the $ on other mods or tuning tools. IMHO | ||
| Garrett2 |
im doing the swap in a few weeks for adjustablility on my dragbike. if its your street bike i wouldnt bother with it, but thats just me. my 99s3 never gave me any problems, but its limiting me a bit for more power, only reason im swapping | ||
| Bad_karma |
Matthew My 99 S3 was fuel injected. Problems with the fuel injection from the start. Two different Buell dealers couldn't/wouldn't fix it. Now it's an 88" with an HSR45. Can't compare it with the old 1203 because it rarely ran correctly. But I now believe that the dependability is improved. I added a stand alone crane ignition and losing the fuel pump and ECM I'm not dependent on the weakest link of the Buells which is the wiring. I believe that FI should improve drivability but so far I don't see it. I like the FI ease in starting and cold weather operation but they don't make up for the miles I have pushed my S3. | ||
| Blks1l |
I did the conversion on my 00 S3T, and love it. I just went back with a stock Keihn, and also left the original ignition with my Race ECM. | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
99 S3 and the FI has been picture perfect! I cannot think of any racing class where FI is allowed and people choose carbs instead. It might be cheaper to slap a big carb on a drag bike, but done right FI would still be easier to tune. ECM Spy has made the at track adjustability of FI superior (easier and faster) than having jets and needles. With a PDA you can datalog and take the guess work out of it. The bank sensor shuts off the fuel when the bike is laid down, carbs spill their fuel. Our FI systems are good up to about 120 HP. After that, or sooner if you insist, a larger or bored out throttle body, larger injectors and larger capacity fuel pump could be added. I understand the frustration some have had with what was probably electrical issues - not really FI issues, but having a HD mechanic who cannot fix your Buell FI is hardly an indictment of DDFI. If you like carbs and bought a tuber with a carb just for that reason that's cool, if out of frustration you have made the swap and are happy, that's cool too, but I for one specifically bought a FI bike and would never go back to a carb. If your bike is running ok with FI, changing it to a carb reeks of fixing something that isn't broken... | ||
| Werewulf |
http://www.amm.haan.de/carb/carb.htm | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
Great link for those making the swap Werewulf, but what makes this an "upgrade"? I see it like swapping your lighter for matches - they both have their appeal but it's hard to call it an upgrade.... | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I agree with Scott. | ||
| Pikeslayer |
I'm thinking trouble shooting is a ton easier on a carb. Right now I don't think my X1 is running right. I have learned how to check the engine temp. sensor and it is ok. Now I have to learn how to do a TPS reset, I think I need to buy something for that. I also need to learn how to check the O2 sensor. If it had a carb I could've rebuilt it by now. And for tuning, jets are whole lot cheaper than ECU mapping software. I've been down the EFI road with my 2006 Low Rider. I had to buy a Power Commander ($280). Had to buy a Twin Scan ($450). Runs great now, but I had to tune on it for about 20 hours. Sure would've been great to get a jet recommendation and then go up one size or down one size. | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
You are behind the curve Pikeslayer! Do a search here for ECMSPY and ECM Spy. It does what you need and is FREE! It will cost about $30 to make a cable. | ||
| Werewulf |
i had an 02 deuce with a carb and no one ever got it to run right... | ||
| Pikeslayer |
Scott_in_nh, you are making my point. You recommend I go learn ECMSPY, and make a cable. Where does that put me? I'll tell you. At the front end of another 20 hour tuning session. I guess I'm just sick of learning all of this damned software. I've learned power commander, and I've learned the Twin Scan. I just wanna ride. Will ECMSPY allow me to do a TPS reset? | ||
| Xldevil |
http://www.adrenalinmoto.co.uk/prods/46.html Here you can see a complete carb conversion kit for the X1.It includes everything you need,like f-e. modifying the existing "black box". After the carb conversion,there is no need for any of that stupid things like a 30km adjusting ride below 3000r/pm this lousy fuel injection asks for if,f.e.only the battery has been disconnected anymore.No costly sensor failiars,etc. A good working, state of the art FI is one thing(even though I never missed it on a bike),but this is not what they gave to the tubers.Even on my cheapest 90s japanese cars the FI worked better and easier,they were self adjusting right from the start and always reliable. Ralph (Message edited by xldevil on January 02, 2008) | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
Will ECMSPY allow me to do a TPS reset? YES! and reset the AFV and read codes..... Use a PDA to datalog while riding it and it shouldn't take much after that. With what you already know this should be pretty easy for you! | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
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| Farrisbueller |
I went from F.I. to a 45mm mikuni, Twin-Tech ignition, S.E. manifold, Buell choke cable bracket, modified the stock cable with a soldered barrel end. Works great, the Twin-Tech is modifiable with a laptop, 105/110 out of a 88" street motor, Nallin heads. Not 1 problem in 2000 miles. | ||
| Bad_karma |
I agree with Scott in that it was electrical problems. I agree with Don that I don't want to learn software and spend extra dollars for hardware I don't currently have. I believe in the KISS theory. I agree with the Don't fix it if it isn't broke up until it breaks and where it brakes. From the reading of various Buell boards the wiring problems have not been eraticated in our Buells. Reading numerous publication and talking with other riders, in current real world condition I don't see sufficient advantages to fuel inject over carburetors to justify the expense of FI. The only part that I have needed for my bikes that I was unable to get from Buell was the fuel filter. Granted I would have just found an aftermarket substitute . But it was a FI specific component. I miss the turn the key, wait for the light to go out then start of the FI. But I don't miss the jerky very low speed operation, the single cylinder operation from the Blue ridge parkway to tidewater. I agree with Scott's attitude that what ever you prefer you can have, except if I where to get a new Buell I would have to have FI. Damn the liberal minority meddling in things they know not. Joe | ||
| Thespive |
Here is my question, I have a Twin Tec USB cable from when I had a TC88 on my 2004 Sportster - by any chance, will that cable work with my Buell? --Sean | ||
| Bobo |
Thespive, I would like to know about the Twin Tech cable too. Farrisbueller, can you share more on swapping in the Twin Tech? I assume you used the TC88A. | ||
| Werewulf |
i keep hearing about stand alone crane ignition... can someone tell me what this means?... doest it mean i dont need a voes and other stuff if i convert to a carb, just install the crane ignition and im done?? |
