| Author | Message | ||
     Brinnutz |
I was wondering what the benefit to having either of these cams would be. And, which one would be better than the other. When it comes to cams, I have no friggin clue. What exactly will they help with if I replace them. Thanks in advance. Andrews N2 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ANDREWS-CAMS-N2-CAM -00-07-HARLEY-SPORTSTER-00-02-BUELL_W0QQcmdZViewIt emQQcategoryZ35572QQihZ004QQitemZ140163144315QQrdZ 1QQsspagenameZWDVW Andrews N4 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ANDREWS-CAMS-N4-CAM -00-08-HARLEY-SPORTSTER-00-02-BUELL_W0QQcmdZViewIt emQQcategoryZ35572QQihZ004QQitemZ140163144303QQrdZ 1QQsspagenameZWDVW | ||
| Ducxl |
i personally believe cams are a waste of money.Here.These engines' will only run to about 7000 rpm. Any cam you use will likely hurt low to midrange performance.And a properly built engine/w cams,headwork,higher compression etc. Will lead to decreased reliability.I'm in one project RIGHT NOW/w cams/pistons/headwork/CF wheels blah,blah,and for the $10k so far i might as well bought a new GSXR1k or 1125r.Don't waste your money,just buy a new bike | ||
| Akbuell |
I'm with Ducxl on this one. The manufacturers do a pretty good job of putting out a good overall package. My choice would be to use the monies the whole cam change would take and invest in suspension, or seat, or lighting, or riding gear upgrades. My .02 cents. | ||
| Nocompromise |
I agree with some of what Duc typed. Cams are for changing the lift and duration of the valve opening. Depending on the what mods the rest of your engine has, you may need cams to get the appropriate fuel/air mixture to the combustion chamber. If you are running the configuration in your profile, you probably don't need cams at this point. When you're planning engine mods, you should do everything in stages. For example, do exhaust, air filter, jetting all together - not just one. The next 'step' would be something like 1250 kit, stage 1 or 2 head work, cams, and carb. If you want to get crazy, then skip the previous step and get an 88" kit, stage 3 head work, plus appropriate cams and carb. Obviously, each 'step' has an associated cost. I definitely considered buying an XB or a different bike before I decided to get engine work done to my tuber. Even with a bunch of work, you shouldn't come in over $10k, unless you get CF wheels. A hot-rodded tuber is completely different than any other bike out there. It's up to you whether you'd prefer something different (newer) for the money. Check out the dyno charts on the NRHS (or Revolution Performance) website and decide which 'package' is going to give you the results you want. But, my basic advice is to do everything in steps or the weakest link will hold you back. | ||
| Cyclonecharlie |
My take on this is. You must be looking not to spend a lot of money since your looking at cams on e-bay. I haven't checked cam prices lately but when I bought mine from the dealer (several years ago) that's about all I paid then and no shipping. I think every cyclone should have an up grade in cams,but that's just me. With what you already have you could go with the X1 cams(495 lift-bolt-on) same springs,won't hurt your bottom end and plenty of snap to get you the top end you want.And even if you had the dealer do it, should be under a bill.And can be done a whole lot cheaper if you did it yourself. I have these cams in mine and I would never go back to stock.....  Charlie | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
He might get something if he changes the M2 cams for X1 cams. I don't know if it would be worth the money though. Might as well just get an X1 instead of trying to build one part by part. | ||
| Cyclonecharlie |
Nate, It may be hard to believe, but some of us would rather have a cyclone.  ... Charlie | ||
| Mcgiver |
Don't know about Andrews cams. I do know that I used the se.536 cams along with Stage 2 heads on my S3 touring bike, and was amased with how much power I have across the whole rpm range.  Brian | ||
| Sportyeric |
The Andrews N4 is the same as what an X1 comes with. You lose a little below 3500 rpm and gain a bit at the top. The X1 is rated at 101 hp (at the crank) whle the M2 is rated at 91. The only difference is the cams. The M2 is provided with the stock Sportster cams for those who like the low end grunt. Your profile indicates that you like to visit the top occassionally. I'd say go for it. (But check the Badweb sponsors to see if their pricing is the same.) | ||
| Hurricaneleah |
Brinutz, Your money will be extremely well spent on X1 'B' cams/Andrews N4 vs the stock cyclone 'D' cam. Cams are about the best performance mod you can throw at a lightly modded M2, especially with the exhaust work you have done. It is the most bang for the $$$ you can get with your particular combination. Your stock 'D' cams have essentially no overlap, while the 'b' cams have a good amount and will respond extremely well to the exhaust mods you have made. If I were you, I would be swapping cams immediately! Technically you can get away with the stock springs, but I would buy yourself a little extra insurance and go with the screamin' eagle hi po springs. The 'B' cams/N4's have very aggressive valve opening and closing rates, and I would be a little nervous about running used stock springs with them. I have done a number of 'B' cam M2's and they are great, very streetable motorcycles with much more 'inspired' top end. I think you will be extremely happy with this mod. A little bit of Buell trivia: Some M2's did in fact leave the factory with the X1 'B' cams. If you are an australian or european M2 owner, then you already 'B' cams, factory installed. The torque curve provided by the 'b' cam was much more friendly to the Euro noise test than the domestic only 'D' cam. | ||
| Ducxl |
Technically you can get away with the stock springs, but I would buy yourself a little extra insurance and go with the screamin' eagle hi po springs. You see,that's where it starts.If you're going to do this then you really should do that.Your springs lead to....Titanium keepers...Amtec roller rockers."hey! i've got it apart why not a valve job"! Becomes a porting job.Having said all that i'm in the middle of a project.Over $10k in parts/porting "so far".It's a project/hobby i do as a machinist.I'm not really disgusted then but...I could've paid cash for a new 1125r | ||
| Sanchez |
> The only difference is the cams. Um, and the fuel injection. Brinnutz, the cams aren't real expensive if you do the work yourself. If you're paying for labor, though, they totally aren't worth it. A cam swap isn't a trivial job. So is it worth your time? I guess that probably depends on how you ride your bike. You won't notice any improvement until 5500 rpm or so. If you redline your bike a lot, or you want better dyno numbers, then maybe some N4's are what you need. If you just ride it around on the street, then maybe it's not worth the trouble. | ||
| 01m2 |
N2 and N4 Cams are bolt in and do not need any additional valve train upgrades. I understand the N4 are the same or similar to the X1 cams. This is what the Andrews web site says (http://www.andrews-products.com/motorcycle/cams/SP EV_B1200_cams.htm) about the N4's "Street/Drags: Stock or modified 883 & 1200. Slightly higher idle speed but stock springs and hydraulic lifters are recommended. RPM range: 2000-6000." If you decide to get them be sure you order for the correct year model. The gears are different on pre 2000. I have a 2001 M2 with the race kit. I installed the N8 cams. Idles fine at 1000. Low and mid range is good. Runs and pulls good from 2500. When it hits about 4500 rpms it really sings definitely more top end power. Bought mine used for $100 =/-. The rear rocker box was leaking. I did the cams and rocker gaskets at the same time. Saved some bucks, fixed an oil leak and got to play with the motor. If I had to spend the big bucks to do this I wouldn't. I would spend the cash on suspension improvements. | ||
| Brinnutz |
Thanks all for your help. I am just a poor college student right now. And I was wondering what this would do for me... I like the idea of the X1 cams, or the N4's. If and when I do this, I'll be doing it myself, as I'm not hauling the bike the 1.5hr drive to the nearest Buell Dealer. Anywho, Duc, My projects are one little bit at a time nowadays. School and rent eats up most of the money I do make working part time. I barely have enough to pay the bills, and sometimes I can't. But hey, I ain't selling the bike. Because CycloneCharlie said it best...Some of use just like Cyclones. =) Thanks brotha! | ||
| Ratbuell |
I put a set of 15 grind Lightning cams in my S2 when I put in Thunderstorm heads and pistons, and I'm extremely happy with them. Doesn't have the instantaneous neck-snap acceleration of my S1W...but I chalk that up to the gearing differences between the bikes (same speed, the S2 runs almost 600rpm lower). And the weight - the S2 has the fairing, bags, a real tail section...the S1W is nothing but a fuel tank, engine, and pair of wheels, LOL. | ||
| Torquemonster |
I was thinking about replacing my cams too, but after reading this thread Ive decided not to. Im more of a low end power guy I guess. | ||
| Djkaplan |
For agressive riding in the twisties, my stock cammed and race kit equipped Cyclone's easy power and big midrange makes squirting from corner to corner very easy. Out in the open though, an X1 or XB12 will get a bike length on me for each gear we run through. If the those bike lengths are important to you, then the cam upgrade would be worth it. | ||
| Grancuda |
I am also running the 536SE cams and there are no flat spots and they do great with the Stage 2 heads but then again I do have 1250 kit and HS2R and ..... "I'm not really disgusted then but...I could've paid cash for a new 1125r" I don't know many people who would switch bikes instead of upgrading parts. That is like saying I have to pay 10k for body work on my '69 Charger R/T, may as well just buy a new one- aint gonna happen in a million years and that is the same as my S1 vs the 1125r | ||
| Ducxl |
In the case of MY Ducati 996,it's a toy i can afford to play with mechanically.I've got two top performing STOCK Buells'. They perform as expected.If presented with it again,i'd buy a bike ENGINEERED with the performance i desire.I'm lying,when the Duc comes back online it'll be a real ripper.If i were contemplating mods to my "only" bike i wouldn't do it at all | ||
| Sportyeric |
My first thought was to say that if the factory sees fit to use stock springs with b-grind cams, then there is no point in using heavier ones. Then I considered that your profile says that you like to rev to 6800 rpm. That may make heavier springs a good idea. For a college student short on cash to rev the bike to 6800 may be a little extravagant. There will be a longevity issue to face by exceeding the factory's rev limit. My other first thought was to mention to Sanchez that I know there are numerous differences between the X1 and the M2 but I was only referring to the one difference that effects rated horsepower. The cams. The S1W and some S3s had T-Storm heads, B-grind cams, and a 101 HP rating. The fuel injection may affect driveability but not, I think, the rated HP. |
