| Author | Message | ||
     Nocompromise |
Ok, here is the situation in a nutshell: My tolerance level is just about maxed out on what I thought would be a comparatively minor project - removing the engine covers off a (new to me) S1. Because the front motor mount wouldn't allow me to remove the front rocker box cover (it has XB heads), I decided to try to only remove the rear rocker box and put the front piston at TDC. Al suggested using a plastic rod in the front spark plug hole to determine this. So, I put a plastic chopstick in there but when I rotated the tire it broke off.  So, now I am undecided as to whether I should: a. Just run it and hope the combustion melts/incinerates the small plastic piece. b. Pull the head. The rocker box is already off, but I will need Al's tool to remove the intake manifold. Plus, I'm a little leery of all the specific torquing instructions when reinstalling the head and manifold. With my luck I'll end up with a leak somewhere. c. Al suggested using compressed air through the spark plug hole to blow it out the exhaust valve. Anyone care to speculate whether this would work? d. Pay someone to pull/reinstall the head. e. Throw the whole thing off a cliff. I'm more than a little torqued that I'm having to go through all these gyrations because the previous owner decided to do a sub-par powdercoating job on the engine covers.  Sorry for the frustration, but I'm dying to go riding instead of staring at this in pieces in my garage. Any and all advice or thoughts on the situation would be much appreciated! Thanks!! | ||
| Firemanjim |
Pull that head,you just need to cut down an Allen wrench to get manifold off.Or get a pickup tool and go through hole and grab it. Why didn't you pull the front mount? If I ever get off work I can give you a hand--mabe sun or mon?? | ||
| Road_thing |
f. Crate it up and ship it to me... ...seriously, step back for a minute and take a deep breath. Pulling the head isn't really that big a deal, but I think Al's idea is worth a try if you can rotate the engine enough to open the exhaust valve without the chunk of plastic damaging a valve. Any idea how big a chunk we're talking about? If that doesn't work, plan B is to pull the head. FMJ can probably do in his sleep, so if you can get him to come by and help you, it probably won;t cost more than a six-pack or so. Hey, here's a thought: set a fire in your garage, call in the alarm and hope Jim is part of the team that answers the call! ...just kidding... rt | ||
| Spiderman |
Hey, here's a thought: set a fire in your garage, call in the alarm and hope Jim is part of the team that answers the call! This isn't a low-rder hotel party  | ||
| Road_thing |
"I gotta get outta here, man, there's a warrant out on me!"  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Every time I have done something stupid like this (all too often, sadly) I have (after a deep breath and a lot of thought) been able to get it back out. Here would by my brainstorming short list... 1) Pickle picker upper thing, preferably on a flexible shaft. Thats those "push the plunger and three wires come out to grab things" deal. 2) Shop vac duct taped to clear plastic tubing small enough to go through the spark plug hole. "Nurse! More Suction!". Don't make the tubing big enough to actually suck out the plastic unless you havesomething to catch it, so you know if you got it or not. You should have seen what I had to do to pull 3 feet of nylon strap out of the crank case of an SV-650. The moment I realized the degree to which I had just shot myself in the foot and thought about splitting cases, I thought I was going to be sick. Enough to make a man turn to Jesus, it is... (BTW, the strap came out without splitting the cases...) | ||
| Chasespeed |
I had to do to pull 3 feet of nylon strap out of the crank case of an SV-650. You cant make a comment like THAT without further explanation...... Please sir, do tell... Chase} | ||
| Nocompromise |
Guys, Thanks for all the thoughts!! I have thought about it a little more, and I'll give it a shot (especially if Jim is willing to come give me a hand with the install - Sunday afternoon or Monday evening would work great for me Jim! Thanks a TON for the kind offer - just tell me what brand of beer you drink!). I did think of the picker-upper, but I only tried a smaller syringe style one, not a flexible one. I think I have a really long flexible one somewhere, but I'll have to dig around (or buy another). I'm not confident that it will work, but it's definitely worth a shot. Reep - that shop vac idea is very interesting, but I don't have a shop vac. I could give it a try with a regular vac, but I don't know if it would have enough suction. I'd love to remove it without having to pull the head (obviously). I guess part of my frustration is that this project always seemed to have 'one more thing'. First the inaccessible rocker box cover bolt, then the motor mount (it is loosened and I have the billet NHRS one ready to mount), then the chopstick broke in the cylinder, then drill out the timing cover rivets, etc... Along the way there were just a lot more complications than I expected. I'm hoping that it will make the riding that much sweeter when I get her all together, but in the meantime it's really starting to make me hate this bike before I've really ridden her! | ||
| Chasespeed |
Oh, to add what I was initally gonna say... Use something that will hold tight to STICK bubble gum... and start digging around in there... Dont ask  Chase | ||
| Phat_j |
in the future, use a straw..... | ||
| Reepicheep |
I was helping a friend retap a dealer stripped oil drain plug (those darn Suzuki techs ;) ). The thought was, that I would pack that strap up in the case, and do the drilling and tapping necessary for heli coiling, then pull the strap back out thereby getting as many shavings out as possible. I thought nylon strap would be better then a shop rag or something. Well, there were two problems. First, the drilling and tapping left a burr up inside the case... meaning the strap snagged badly whenever you tried to fish it out. Also, after the strap went through the hole, I could not tell where the "end was"... Not a big deal I thought, as I cleverly used a strap. You can grab a strap anywhere and pull and it will all eventually come out... right? Well, thats true, but a strap that will easily fit through an oil plug hole when fed in single, will barely fit through when folded over double. It took a good hour of tedious poking and prodding and digging to get it out... feeling sick and stupid most of the time, but I did it. Not my best moment  . Normal vac would probably work fine, by the time you get to that little hose that will go through a spark plug hole you won't need much airflow. You might overheat the vacuum motor though, it probably expects to flow air, and you won't be flowing much. | ||
| Road_thing |
this project always seemed to have 'one more thing'. That's the nature of projects, I'm afraid. rt | ||
| Firemanjim |
Kevin,I will be around this afternoon so call if you need help.548-7906. Jim | ||
| Nocompromise |
Ok, I replaced the oil pump drive gear, and the old one definitely has some wear indications. I'm not sure what other people have experienced with their gears, but this picture shows the most obvious area where the gear is missing some material. There are a couple similar areas where it is worn down, but not gouged like in the photo. The number 2 cam came out when I was trying to remove the gear, so I had to realign the cams. Just for my own education, is there a way to remove the oil pump drive gear without taking out the number 2 cam? If there isn't, I won't feel quite as stupid.  Hopefully I will get my engine covers back tomorrow, and I will be able to start reassembling everything. I assume it's Ok for me to put the primary and cam covers back on before I remove (and then replace) the front cylinder head?  | ||
| Spiderman |
ALSO! Check your oil pump. Tear it down and clean it and put it back together. It is easy to do and you could find those little pieces before they do any damage. | ||
| Road_thing |
The side wear on those teeth doesn't look too bad, but those nicks in the ends are scary! rt | ||
| Reepicheep |
From a wear standpoint, that gear looks nearly perfect. That chunk missing is alarming though. Wonder if that chunk was gone when the gear was made... before it ever touched the bike... that looks nowhere near any stressed surface. | ||
| Nocompromise |
I don't think so. If you look at the thread to the left of the big chunk, you can see a smaller chunk missing in the same spot. The thread to the right also has a little bit missing, which you can barely see. On the other side of the gear there is material missing from similar spots, but it looks more like light gouges rather than a huge chunk. All of the gouges are in the same spot on the threads - right near the edge. I'll try to take a few more pictures later today - I have to run to work now.  | ||
| Rotzaruck |
Man!! Something else to check if I ever get to put mine back together!!! I think if I found chunks like that missing, I might be asking if that could have happened when a chunk of something else made it's way through there. Then, where did it come from, and where did it end up? Think I'd at least check the pump like Spidey said. So many things to worry about. You gotta get that bike going, running to work is gonna get old quick!! Rotzaruck!!! | ||
| Road_thing |
I'm wondering if those chunks are getting knocked off by the backside of the tooth on the oil pump driven gear. Notice how the nicks line up with the end of the "wear crescent" on the worm gear? rt | ||
| Firemanjim |
Take a look at the bearing race for crank and make sure it has not shifted as one motor I took apart the race was just a hair away from contact with gears. | ||
| Billetmetallic |
which surely means "rebuild" correct? if I saw that in my engine *knock on wood* i would definitly do a full rebuild and ditch my old oil tank and soft lines (Message edited by billetmetallic on August 11, 2007) | ||
| Oldog |
The tooth of the driver is chipped - that is F.O.D , I agree with Spidy open up the oil pump for a look, consider replacing the drive key on the gear shaft, Part of the gear in the photo shows significant wear ( about 8:00 in the above pic ) the wear is uneven as well Bronze drive gear if funds permit. I also second replacing the soft lines and (BUT) just a thourough cleaning of the bag.. | ||
| Firemanjim |
Kevin,I will not be getting off work on sunday--maybe monday. I don't think I would be panicing about those small bits,just flush system and check oil pump for debris.See if you can spot what made contact. | ||
| Nocompromise |
Thanks for the advice guys. I'll check around and see if I can figure anything out in regards to what caused the damage. Jim, let me know if you're available on Monday. Thanks!! | ||
| Nocompromise |
Ok, here is another part of the gear that shows some wear. It's on the upper edge just like the chunk that's missing, but you can see little strips of material are gone. I checked out the crankshaft and the gear that mates with the oil pump drive gear and I couldn't see any visible indications of what could've caused the damage. I guess I'll take the oil pump apart to inspect it, but I'm REALLY getting sick of 'one more thing.'  This bike is going to give me ulcers before I've even properly ridden it!!  Can someone verify just for my own peace of mind that the cams are lined up? I lined up the markings just like it shows in the manual. The crankshaft marking is a little hard to see, but it is lined up with the one on the number 2 cam. Is that really are there is to it?  Finally, I may be going insane, but what size Torx head is the bolt to the right above the right intake valve in the picture? T45 is too loose (I'm afraid I'll strip it), T50 is way too big, and T47 (which I thought for sure would work) is just a touch too big to really get seated. There is one Torx head bolt like this that goes into each cylinder head. What am I missing?? Thanks again for any assistance! If Jim is able to help me out tomorrow, perhaps I'll have the head taken off, chopstick removed, and reinstalled!  (Message edited by nocompromise on August 13, 2007) | ||
| Ratbuell |
Probably a T45. No harm in changing it to a good ol' hex head when you reassemble, either ;) | ||
| Nocompromise |
Hmmmm... I've heard that Torx heads strip really easy and there is quite a bit of play in the T45. I'm wondering if I should try to tap the T47 in with a mallet. | ||
| Firemanjim |
Still stuck here at work--but they have to let me go tomorrow,thank goodness.Getting cabin fever. But staying sane with all the updates on Landracing.com as Speedweek is in progress right now!Lots of good pics in the photo gallery. P.S. I hate torx screws!! | ||
| Firemanjim |
I am off tues and weds,call me at 548-7906 and I'll swing by. |
