| Author | Message | ||
     Buell82 |
Ok so here I am....Smoke was coming from my crank case breathing system, and found no compression in one cylinder. I completed my leak down test on my 97 S3 and to my disapointment, all the air was hissing out of my timing inspection port.:-( So now I know for sure that I need to replace the rings on my piston. What I am asking is if anyone can give me advice on rebuilding this cylinder? Are there any specialty tools that I just cannot live without? I have my service manual, but I still need as much help as I can get. Thanks, Mike | ||
| Chasespeed |
Which cylinder? If its the rear, it wont be too bad, as, you only need to remove the tank, carb, intake, exhuast, etc.. to get at the rear cylinde,r Removal is pretty easy, BUT, GO EASY WITH THE WRIST PIN. Be as gentle as possible... IF you arent replacing the piston, just re-ringing, disregard that statement. I good set of piston ring pliers will make life easy. If you have never filed a set of rings before, that COULD be an issue for you, IF you buy rings that need to be fitted, though, they should ALWAYS be checked before intallation. Install rings, phase them on the slug properly.... SLIDE the properly lubed cylinder down over the rings and piston, (making sure the base gasket is in place), install, head, etc... Take your time, follow the manual... most of it is pretty self explanatory... If its the front cylinder, you need to support the engine, as you will need to remove the front cylinder, and thus the front engine mount from the bike... Chase | ||
| Ratbuell |
If you have access to a machine shop, and can get the piston off the rod, take them the piston, cylinder, and rings so they can hone and fit them as required. If you have zero compression, you may have to go oversize on the bores/pistons... Also, one thing I ALWAYS install the first time I have a cylinder off is the Sifton oil drain tube kit. It's in the Drag Specialties book, runs about $40 for the set (2 cylinders), and is virtually a guarantee you won't ever have a base gasket leak again. Also, be sure to install new pushrod tube o-rings top and bottom...and it's as good a time as ever to upgrade to the XB rocker box and breather setup. My motto: Never Replace, Only Upgrade  | ||
| Tattoodnscrewd |
Just make sure you have the rings oriented right ... as in not upside down ... I just tore down my S1 and did an entirely new and different top end .. somehow the scavenging ring ended up upside down on the front cylinder .. not good .. blue smoke and oil from the exhaust port .. had to tear it down again .. but it was a fairly easy job (I had the right help - nothing like a Buell employee wrenching with me on my bike - (Thanks again Jason) .. didn't even use ring compressors - we only used the ring pliers for the middle ring (scavenging ring) - the rest went on without a hitch ... Just take your time - all new gaskets - follow directions and make sure you torque everything to spec - BUT - If you are doing the front cylinder - when you reattach the front motor mount - use new bolts for going into the head, and DO NOT use the torque value listed in your service manual .. it calls for 75 ft lbs ... in 2000 Buell updated that figure to be 60 ft lbs for the motor mount bolts .. (verified by the local Buell driveline engineer who did most of the wrenching on my rebuild... actually - he knew 75 was wrong, double checked and it is 60) | ||
| Oldog |
Some thoughts, A holed piston = metal bits in the motor, meticulious inspection, and as suggested else where I would clean the tank and lines, until I was certain that there was NO trash in the remainder of the engine else you will be doing it again. one other thing what caused the lean condition that destroyed the rear piston? the hole is a symptom of another problem.. | ||
| Buell82 |
I am not really sure yet what caused the hole in the piston...I am still kind of in the proccess of figuring it out for sure. I thought lean condition at first, but none of my intake seals were in poor condition. Im also thinking detonation in the cylinder? Lemon piston? Then my last theory is that since the motor had been rebuilt by the previous owner, he never actually put enough miles on the motor to break it in. I was not informed well enough on this, and just rode it way to hard for a motor that was hardly broken in? I came up with this last theory when I tore down the cylinder and I could clearly still see all the cross hatching on the cylinder wall from honeing. Mike | ||
| Ryker77 |
Best advise for a major rebuild is let a pro do it. cyclerama would be my piok | ||
| Bad_karma |
Buell82 I'm in the middle of this exact thing. Hole in piston under exhaust valve. I believe it was the faulty FI that Buell/HD could never fix. Joe | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Removal is pretty easy, BUT, GO EASY WITH THE WRIST PIN. Be as gentle as possible... ROFLMAO! Not that I'm doubting you, but we had to pound the crap out of one of the wrist pins to get it out on Tattoodnscrewd's bike.} | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Just done both pots on the M2, only extra advice I can give you is use 2 top seals on the pushrod tubes, 1 in the head & 1 on the tube shoulder, because the new base gaskets are thicker than the old ones. I did the whole job with no special tools just careful fingers & lots of oil. I used a large hose clamp for a ring compressor. Bike runs fine don't know about oil consumption yet, only finished last night. Did about 300miles today running it in. | ||
| Oldog |
82, cross hatch will be visible in the cylinder except the very top for the life of the engine. I second Rykers' suggestion if funds permit and you are unsure have it done. by Pammy and co. 2 pistons holed under the exhaust valve? hummmm rear cylinder both sleds FI | ||
| Bad_karma |
Here is what the damage looks like.  | ||
| Buell82 |
HOLY COW! That hole is huge. I thought mine was bad...How much metal did you end up finding in the bottom end of your engine? Well at least I am not the only one in the world with problems. Are you going to replace your pistons with stock, or are you going to use something different? Let me know cause I am pondering on that very topic. Thanks, Mike | ||
| Bad_karma |
Mike The gross of the piston was in the oil pump inlet. The cam box and crank case had the remaining chunks.Fine metal everywhere, including tank and lines. Going with a zippers 88" Kit. Upgrading from the mikuni 42 to a 45, head work, red line cams and piston oiler modification. Had to replace the rear jug, the sleeve had separated from jug. If I hadn't damaged the jug I was just going with a 1250 kit like I have in my S1. Mike any pictures of your piston? Joe (Message edited by bad_karma on May 30, 2007) | ||
| Tattoodnscrewd |
I don't suppose anyone needs a near complete top end - taken off my 97 S1 .. A little dirty but there is nothing wrong with the parts I only swapped for more power, I have cylinders, pistons, heads, and polished rocker covers .. | ||
| Buell82 |
Here is a picture of my piston when it is still inside the cylinder. Burned clear through....but definatly not as bad as I once thought..... | ||
| Buell82 |
OOOOOPPPSS.....here is the actual pic....lol  | ||
| Bad_karma |
Mike Looks like mine in the early stages of the final failure. Going to need a complete disassembly for sure. Joe | ||
| Buell82 |
Hey Bad_karma.....here is something thats buggin me. This type of detonation always seem to be on the rear cylinder under the exhaust valve. Happened to the same spot for some other people I know, and looks like the same thing for you. Now yours is fuel injected and mine is carburated. What are some thoughts on this? Mike | ||
| Bad_karma |
Mike, These are just thoughts, rear cylinder running warmer do to inline design, maybe, bad component in FI control section? Exhaust valve is one of the hottest spot in the cylinder. Thank big brother for lean conditions overall. I no longer have FI on this bike. My front cylinder showed signs of lite detonation but not a threat to the extended life of the piston. Make sure your jetting is correct for your modifications. If in doubt a little rich is better that a little lean unless you accept a shorter engine life span for the added performance. Make sure that the ignition and advance settings are proper for your modifications. Joe (Message edited by bad_karma on May 31, 2007) | ||
| Oldog |
I wonder if manifold air leaks caused this? | ||
| Se7enth_sign |
I'm just finishing up a rebuild from my holed piston from a dropped valve. I found metal in the crank case but that's it. I'm replacing the oil lines but I hadn't considered checking the oil tank. I wish I had thought of that before putting the engine back in the frame. | ||
| Smoke |
i left the oil tank in place, disconnected all the oil lines and flushed the tank with naptha, followed by light pressure shop air to dry it out. worked good for me. tim | ||
| Se7enth_sign |
naptha? Never heard of it. I don't have a dryer. Do you thing a few bottles of cheap oil would do the trick? | ||
| Oldog |
Naptha = low grade gasoline or cleaning solvent or lighter fluid cheap oil = not to good, Stoddard solvent would work well here, and as smoke did a compressed air dryout, to remove trace solvent that could fowl the new oil. |
