| Author | Message | ||
     Jc000 |
Hey guys, I was initially thinking on getting the Nallins hurricane air cleaner and a drummer exhaust, was looking to improve the breathing on my bone stock 02 Cyclone. Saw a vendor is selling the Buell pro series race exhaust, intake manifold, and header, and I'm hoping I could find the Buell pro air cleaner somewhere as well. Question is, is keeping with all Buell parts advantageous in any way? Or would the diff between that and a "mixed" group be minor, providing that the mixed pieces provide similar performance gains. F.ex the drummer seemed comparable to the Buell race exhaust, performance-wise. Also I see a vendor selling a Cyclone ECM/ECU. I may just be ignorant but without fuel injection how can you have an ECM? | ||
| Djkaplan |
I have a Pro Series race kit on my M2. I'm pretty sure the vendor is referring to the electronic control module for the ignition. The race ignition really didn't make too much of difference on my bike. Others swear it does, but on a fairly stock M2, dyno tests don't reveal any real advantage over the stock ignition. Perhaps on a modified engine (cams, head work, etc) it would. The dyno test is in the archives, btw. The only part from the M2 race kit that is a 'must have' is the header. I wasn't pleased at all with the muffler - too heavy (I believe the Drummer for the race header is pretty heavy too) and the rear hangers are really Mickey Mouse. I modified an old aluminum V&H to fit the race header with good results so far. The CF air cleaner was a bust for me too, literally. It didn't last one hour on my bike before my knee broke it coming down from a wheelie. That was an expensive mistake. If I had to do it all over again, I'd just get the header (and maybe the ECM for the ignition just to say I have it). | ||
| Bomber |
the ignition module on the M2, as DJ sez, is more bragging rights than anything else, especially on the street -- it moves the start of the ignition cutoff a couple a hundred Rs, if memory serves, but does not increase the redline (which is limited by factors other than the ignition anyways), nor does it create more spark . . . me, I've had good luck with the race aircleaner, so that's more up to the individual's shape, build and habits than anything else race head, as DJ sez, is aces -- horror stories abound re the race can, though -- I've no data on the tuber drummer | ||
| Jc000 |
Good info, so I guess you guys feel that in most cases, mixing and matching is ok? No real benefit to keeping it all Buell... Is the race header that much an improvement over the stock 2002 header? That's interesting. Would the upgraded intake manifold make sense with this application? (Message edited by jc000 on January 17, 2007) | ||
| Bomber |
mix/match is fine, J -- if you were building a collector's item, all Buell may be of import, but for riding, mutts rule! I don't believe the tuber racers were using anything other than the standard manifold, but hopefully, someone more knowledgable on that topic will chime in you can get alot of air down that stock manifold, though | ||
| Cyclonecharlie |
I have the whole kit(or did at one time). The race ecm raises your redline (6500 to 6800).The aircleaner with the 3in. KN filter works good(better with the longer venture ring)IMO.The header is a must and the muffler is OK if you keep it packed.Anything that Kevin Drum designs for it is going to be better.IMO As for the 44 intake manifold, it helps even with the stock carb.(better taper) If you really want to wake it up, get the bolt in cams(495 lift) then all this other stuff will work a whole lot better.  Charlie | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Charlie, The race ECM does NOT raise the RPM's on a post 99 M2. they already rev to 6800 RPM. the ECM only gets rid of the soft ignition retard that starts at about 6650 or so. The race ECM keeps ignition at full advance until the 6800 RPM cut off "wall". The stocker kind of eases into it. Brad | ||
| Cyclonecharlie |
Bluzm2, I'll take it you have researched it. So I can go with that. Just know that is what I was told when I bought it and the bike responded accordingly.Never questioned it and later replaced it with a Dyna 2000i. I still think the race ecm is a positive step... Charlie | ||
| Sanchez |
I'd stay away from the Buell race air cleaner for the simple reason that you can't get a replacement filter for it anymore (short of buying another kit). It's a reusable filter, of course, but that doesn't help if you mash it into the ground. I have the race headers and muffler on mine, and I like the sound immensely. I can't speak to the weight as I've never lifted another model, and I can't really say anything about the mounts as mine were custom welded by Dr. Frankenhammer and don't resemble stock pieces anymore.  | ||
| Al_lighton |
Not true. We sell the race air filter ( http://www.americansportbike.com/shop/cgi-bin/cp-a pp.cgi?usr=51F6502889&rnd=6778701&rrc=N&affl=&cip= 69.160.135.44&act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=PROD51&cat=&ca tstr= ), the CF cover ( http://www.americansportbike.com/shop/cgi-bin/cp-a pp.cgi?usr=51F6502889&rnd=8353914&rrc=N&affl=&cip= 69.160.135.44&act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=6151&cat=&cats tr= ) or an entire filter that has those parts that uses a backplate that is superior to the original (http://www.americansportbike.com/shop/cgi-bin/cp-a pp.cgi?usr=51F6502889&rnd=1744217&rrc=N&affl=&cip= 69.160.135.44&act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=17005&cat=&cat str=HOME, http://www.americansportbike.com/shop/cgi-bin/cp-a pp.cgi?usr=51F6502889&rnd=4620112&rrc=N&affl=&cip= 69.160.135.44&act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=17000&cat=&cat str=HOME and http://www.americansportbike.com/shop/media/images /product_xlarge/17005-l.jpg ) The old backplate was just a flat sheet of aluminum. The new milled backplate has a full radius milled in venturi ring and integrated spacer, it is the highest power producing air cleaner we sell. External dimensions are the same as the Buell Race air cleaner. Al | ||
| Sanchez |
Well I'll be damned! My dealer looked high and low for one of those filters and never could find one. They finally just broke up a kit they'd had on the shelf since 2003 and gave me a hell of a deal on the filter alone. That milled backplate does look much nicer than my Buell piece. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Hey Al, Did you know that if you are looking at one of those three line URL like this one: http://www.americansportbike.com/shop/cgi-bin/cp-a pp.cgi?usr=51F6502889&rnd=6778701&rrc=N&affl=&cip= 69.160.135.44&act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=PROD51&cat=&ca tstr= and you click on a bookmark to this URL: http://tinyurl.com/ it turns that first long URL in this URL: http://tinyurl.com/2g97pl Much easier on the eyes and also eliminates a lot of problems with wordwrapping in some browsers/email programs cutting off part of a lengthy URL (and making it not work). Could be good for business, no insult intended. Jack | ||
| Djkaplan |
"Good info, so I guess you guys feel that in most cases, mixing and matching is ok? " Just don't be the guy wearing brown shoes with a tuxedo. | ||
| Cyclonecharlie |
Brown shoes with a tuxedo is fine as long as you have the white socks and the Buell baseball cap.  Charlie | ||
| Aesquire |
The race ignition module has the same redline, but not the soft cutoff like Bluzm2 says. When hitting redline, in top gear, the race module pulls, hard, up till cutoff, the stocker peters out and the speedo crawls the last 8-10 mph. Around town in spirited riding, I actually like the stock box, since I feel the "taper off" and shift, while the race box pulls till it hits the wall. That is a completely personal/ riding style thing, YMMV. I went to the Race filter, for looks & because I found a full race kit on E-bay. If you don't have knee clearance problems, it rocks. The Nallin/American Sportbike backing plate only improves it. ( I'll buy one sometime soon, I think ) Otherwise a modified stock airbox ( see knowledge vault ) flows more than good enough for anything short of a big inch stage 3 rig. It does have it's own look, which is why it's one of the first things many people change. The race header moves the torque band. I have not mounted it up yet, But I'm making a twin band mount that is a copy of the Wileyco one. That way I use the stock mounts front & rear. Honestly, only Buell fanatics, ( like us ) could tell if you used a Buell this & a brand x that...... None of us that I know would do anything but question why you used a modified Semi Truck Muffler, and ask how well it works, and where to get one. | ||
| Jc000 |
Man, I always get great advice from you folks on here, too bad none of you are near Northern Va, maybe I could get some advice on how to ride this damn thing properly! Actually, one reason I was asking about 'keeping it Buell' is that I come from a mountain biking background, and sometimes mixing component groups (especially higher end gruppos) can be problematic as they don't play well together. I thought maybe the same applies with motorcycles. Anyway I appreciate the advice and won't wear brown shoes with tuxes or white after labor day... | ||
| Bad_karma |
Jc000 You are on the right track. Take a course at summit point. That is on my next big think to do after suspension upgrades this year. Joe | ||
| Captainkirk |
JC- I bought the race kit in pieces on eBay simply by watching for the individual components. I saved over half of retail. It took a few months tho. One thing to consider; the race kit components were engineered by Buell to work with each other and give proven dyno'd results; no guesswork or "butt dyno' here. Mixing and matching components based on manufacturer's claims can often be a step backwards in performance. If you take dyno'd results such as Buell's or Nallin Racing (Aaron was kind enough to provide dyno run results in many of his Knowledge Vault postings) you are at least going with a known value. The race "ECM" is indeed an ignition module for the M2. It does have a quicker advance curve, and yes, you'll know it when you're into the rev limiter. Like right now. It is, as was previously posted a brick wall rather than a "soft" limit. The race air cleaner provides as much air flow as anything out there, but as posted, is a PITA for anything longer than a 34" inseam. I've had to adapt my riding style to keep my knee off the CF cover as it does not clear near as well as the original Helmholtz. It was, as I said, a PITA. I got used to it. The race muff is loud....but not too loud. I usually have to wear the foam earplugs for any rides over twenty miles or my ears are ringing all afternoon. Most of the aftermarket pipes I've heard are louder still; with the Force system taking the trophy for Most Obnoxious and the D&D following close behind. If you live in a neighborhood of any kind you might take this into consideration....that is, if you like living in that neighborhood. My internal baffle is rattling after less than 5000 miles; I need to repair it prior to this riding season. That's the only negative I have regarding the race muffler. | ||
| M2statz |
I have the ECM on my M2 O-100mph thru the gears is great if I keep it at or close to 5700rpm but once at 100mph and 5700 or so rpm it is actually slow to 115mph. Force winder intake and V&H header and can. Any help or ideas. Thanks for any help! M2 | ||
| Cyclonecharlie |
M2statz, If you want more on the top then you need the bolt-in cams and possibly a trip to the dyno for your jetting.IMO you will see more bang for your buck here than the other mods.,but they all compliment one another. Charlie | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Michael, You M2 should hit 125 with no problems. Like Cyclonecharlie said, a dyno tune to get the jetting right may help. Your timing may also be off a bit. My bone stock M2 with a Daytona Boss pipe and race ham can filter did 130+ at Bonneville. Just dynoed for jetting and timing. Brad Brad | ||
| M2statz |
Can any bike shop help me or should it be a Hd/Buell dealer? Should the bolt-in cams come first and the dyno or vise-versa? Thanks Michael | ||
| Bomber |
Buell dealer will be of more assistance -- some HD shops will be confused/perplexed by the Buell -- (I know a couple that couldn't sneak the A/F probe into the exhaust, apparently because it wasn't a straight shot) . . . . if you're going to do the cams, anyway, I'd wait til after -- the dynotune will optimize your jetting and timing for the combination you have at the time | ||
| Jc000 |
Found a Buell Race Cleaner Kit on Ebay with a Buy it Now for $199.99... says it's for a 97-98 Cyclone (Buell part number: 29460-96Y). Is that true it won't work with the '02? | ||
| Sjh |
I have a carbon pro series intake kit that I would part with for $ 115 shipped. let me know if interested. | ||
| Captainkirk |
Buell lists the one you saw for the 97-98 M2 models. The one you want is P/N 91421-99Y | ||
| Jc000 |
Thanks Sjh, Captainkirk | ||
| Captainkirk |
No problem! I have one, but I'm using it!  | ||
| Aceboy74 |
I also have the whole race kit minus the module. I am a short legged 6'3" and have had no problems with the CF air cleaner. The race exhaust had to be repacked after about 1.5k and when I did so I also tacked the internal baffle to the end cap (It always rattled a little bit). Just wondering what cams to drop in for a little more UMMPH? I don't want to do much more until I need a full rebuild. Here she is........  | ||
| Captainkirk |
I can HIGHLY recommend the Andrews N8 cams. These are true bolt-in cams and while you lose a wee bit of grunt between 2-3K this grind really gets with the picture at 3K-35K and pulls like a freight train right up to the rev limiter. No complaints here. |
