I just read the "off road chain" pdf from the above site.
He doesn't recommend hobby store paraffin, ( hates with passion? ) nor topping off with same. ( understandable and bad advice from me above, I was wr... )
There's a section on E bikes, & the article is worth a read, & references several diy videos online.
Honestly I have not waxed a chain this century, but the new stuff looks so good I'm switching. I do spray and wipe off every 50 or so miles, or whenever obviously filthy, and clean & drip lube every few hundred.
And... Lately I've become convinced that removing the chain and performing an arcane cleaning ritual in jars and shaking, is just as labor intensive, as messy and makes hands as dirty, as...
Parking the bike over a weed growing thru my driveway and spraying/drizzling solvents and lube, even with a fancy brush toy that get gunky.
And the mess from the jar and shake to agitate method can be done in a laundry sink, etc. not near your bike. Cleans better? I use simple green and water, ( cheap, reasonably eco friendly ) and an immediate booze bath to get the water/solvent out. ( isopropyl or your choice, ) Then lube.
Note. Simple Green & similar cleaners are harsh and will rust your chain fast if not flushed/rinsed out. Some bike and chain specific solvents are better but more expensive. My local shop uses Mucoff cleaner, and sells their chain lube, but no one there used the lube.
Much like motorcycle obsession, bicycle weeniedom has It's factions. All completely different crowds, make fun of each other.
The jocks.
Roadies and mountain guys.
Tourers and Trials, Cyclocross, BMX, Commuters, etc. cross overs & sub types.
Tech weenies. Latest fads, lightest parts, probably has a multi tool on the bike somewhere that can service jet engines.
Insert Venn diagram here, the groups overlap a lot.
Personally, I missed out on BMX by age, too old to get hooked on it, but was in the Mountain bike evolution from early on as a late teen and got talked into a full goose racing bike, became a Roadie, too, and laughed at both. Became a gear weenie in self defense. Big guy ride hard break parts.
It takes tier 2 & 3 parts to keep me from killing myself. Mostly tier 3. I'm cheap, and tier 1 is lightweight and less durable.
So I'm a Deore and 105 series with Ultegra & XT upgrades kinda guy. Though the Rans is SRAM x7 & I've got vintage Suntour, french, italian, scattered throughout my herd. Every bike ( except the Rans & Catrike, ) I've built from parts bins at shops across 2 states. And stuff indexing with stuff that shouldn't work.
And the Catrike is getting 26" front wheels to roll faster on gravel trails. Aero front rims on order. Look forward to lacing them up.
Aero rims & hubs, waiting on the spokes. Hubs were $75 each, but are sealed bearing and look very nice.
Latest, and I promise, last bike I'll ever buy. ( How many times have you said that? )
Rans V-Rex, aka king of speed. It's getting electrified quite soon, and it's already darn quick. I still have the F5, it lives on the trainer, but I was just uncomfortable starting & stopping with the extreme seat angle and tippy toe seat height, so I thought a "practice" machine would get my skills up for the High Racer F5.
With a lower seat and pedal position, The "mid racer" V-Rex is much easier to start than the chest high start kick the High racer needs, and tires are also much easier to get locally. ( 26 & 20" vs. 650C time trial, and the widest I can find for 650C is 28mm. I can stuff 2" wide tires in the V-Rex. )
The local bike shop now calls bicycles without electric motors, "Acoustic bikes".
Been out on the V-Rex, and the Primo Comet tires really like at least 90psi, so I wasn't that unhappy the road was closed so I couldn't hit the gravel trail today. Plenty of speed, but I think Schwalbe Marathon Plus will replace them, I was looking at the 26 & 20" tires at the shop, ( I try to support the local business ) and they'll order anything I want.
Also re packed the wheels on the Stowe "gravel" bike and took it out... My buddy bicycle mechanic told me the seat was shot, and a mile down the road... He was right. Ow. New Terry male saddle purchased and I bolted it on today, I'll test it out next week.
If you need a new saddle, I can highly recommend a Terry.
Georgina Terry designs women's bikes, and saddles & other items sex specific. Women's saddles need to be wider in the back to fit the pelvic dimensions, than a mens' saddle. Her's are great, the gals say. But her Men specific saddles are top notch, with the open center so you don't get the nerve damage problem that can lead to ED, and there's a variety to fit different riding styles, with the Fly saddle being the racer top of the line... smaller than a S-1 saddle!
I get the joke, I think... Cis is the reductive of "regular" so a cisgendered lesbian... Is a lesbian. So "regular" is not applicable?
I'm pretty sure Cis is the new N-word.
Instead I'll rant on planned obsolescence!
While I wasn't looking, they changed drive train speed counts and other things like bearing diameters in the steering head.
So ALL my old bikes, INCLUDING the used ones have steering tubes that available suspension forks don't fit. Number of speeds, in the rear cluster has gone from 5 to 12, with incompatible parts, chains, etc. My old bikes are 6&7 speed, ( The vintage racer is 6x2, the mountain & travel bikes 7x3 ) the 21st century recumbents are all used & 9x3.
Annoying as well is the upper tier parts they were built with are long discontinued. They literally have far better parts than the entry level replacements, except for rare NOS.
And the latest stuff, if you wanted to upgrade requires a post 2016 frame to mount the derailleur!
The Good news is the stuff works pretty good, just expensive. Even a Wal-Mart bike, if you choose well, is decent... IF you rebuild it out of the box.
25 years ago I bought a Wal-Mart mountain bike as a joke/experiment. Took it apart and lubed, tightened, tried wheels, fixed the nonfunctional shifting and braking, etc. Etc.
Broke it first hard ride. A few would survive today. There are videos. ( Berm Peak )
And the high end bikes? Awesome. Prices to match. And with carbon fiber bikes now common, and pricy, you can get for the same price hand made American Titanium. And not that much more than Chinese cheap carbon fiber. ( some Chinese is very good, lots of companies have frames molded there. )
Personally I'm not a carbon fiber bike fan. Limited lifespan and a weird snobbery! Carbon bikes are laid up in a mold and then machined, carved with abrasive tools, and while there's hand labor ( why they make them in China ) it's not the highly skilled labor you get in a brazed or welded metal frame.
A Titanium Litespeed is hand made American art. And basically eternal. No fatigue or corrosion age limits. High resale value.
If I was building or buying new, I'd get a Litespeed. Ultimate Gravel is on closeout.
I'm still dialing in the Deore 1x11 speed drivetrain. Going from Sram 3x9 ( 52/39/30 x 11-34 ) to Shimano w/Bafang 750 watt ( 46 x 11-51 ) is intended to allow big hill climbs with a dead battery.
The ultralight chain may be a mistake, I have a spare in heavier duty, ( silver/black ) But how can I resist gold titanium nitride?
The titanium brake boosters are off my mountain bike and were a local machinist hobby/moonlighting product. Really improve braking, which is a must when running over 30 downhill. I'm still conservative on power & speeds until I get my skills back up.
Saturday's test was a quick 3 miles around the block, short but steep hills, with my buddy Wolfstan on my Catrike running full throttle. ( It's his XS1100 in the photo ) Then a fast 13 miles down to the river on the bike trail. The 2" Schwalbe @60 psi tires got squirrelly on leaves over 20 mph, but it's the price for smooth road tires and low rolling resistance, and the shock absorption was everything I hoped for when I switched from 1.5" Comets @ 90 psi. Very little more rolling resistance on pavement, and less on gravel.
Cleaned 3 brand new chains with Dawn dish detergent & water in the ultrasonic cleaner to remove factory grease/anti rust. Blow dry with compressed air and Sun dry on porch. ( factory grease attracts dirt and makes nasty grinding paste )
Regular grocery store Gulf paraffin soak in an old crock pot. About a half hour.
Weird having a not-oily chain. Runs smooth, and overall more time but less work than on bike cleaning and lubing.
Not the ideal choice for moist conditions, especially salt air, but I'm running dry gravel mostly and the nitride coating should resist rust.
I'd suggest a decent oil for wet conditions and frequent cleaning. You don't need an ultrasonic bath, solvent/alcohol/water shaking in a jug works about as well. Might even be faster. But watching the grease just fog out of a brand new chain was cool.
I got the THREE chains on discount so about $150. It would be $200 retail.
I was tempted by the $108 ( on sale, each ) DLC colored ( red & black etc. ) versions, but the Zero Friction tests showed short lives and frankly I preferred the Titanium Nitride gold. Also $300+ is pricey.
I also passed on the real deal Titanium pin version, @ $200 each ( on sale ) despite the pretty gold finish, both from doubts about longevity and practically, saving a few grams after bolting the biggest battery pack on is a poor money to gain ratio. Besides, I can buy a new bike for the $600 that would cost. ( not a great bike, and that money went to the battery anyway )
I could have gone for "rainbow" chains but they cost more and after riding? Unlike a conventional "safety bicycle", the chain is literally in front of me, and the gold chain on black sprocket is both good looking, and a visual cue that the motor is driving me forward.
Sure, it's a taste thing, but it was only a dozen bucks total more for gold vs. silver so, why not?
Took the bike in today for a Struggle Session to purge it of Capitalist Running Dog Class Exploitation... uh, I mean I took it to the local shop that graciously straightened out the bent derailleur hanger, and now shifting is working fine, and I can get to the smallest gear.
The dropout parts on the Rans are about 1/4" solid chromoly steel, so there was some mild cursing and it took one guy ( me ) holding the V-Rex while the very competent, and strong ( 6'3" 220 ) mechanic really leaned on the alignment tool.
This is one of those jobs where the right, professional level tool, is, if not the only way to do the job, is at least the cheapest, most accurate way. I could have done it back when I was in a serious machine shop and had access to table sized granite surface plates and precision gauges, but I'd have had to MAKE a tool to straighten out the hanger and used several thousands worth of precision equipment. Or made a copy of the tool the mechanic has hanging on the wall. ( and with labor... for a Lot more )
And it is one of those jobs that I "could" do, simply by buying the right tool, but it's one of those tools you might only need once in a lifetime if you don't build & repair bikes for a living. That wouldn't stop me from buying a New Tool just to satisfy my addiction, but I figured I'd let a pro do it. ( and I spent a lot of my budget on rims/spokes/hubs to build a custom set for the trike )
I'm still being mellow with the power assist, until I get my skills up to the point of fatal overconfidence. Probably that will last a week.
Also Respect for the crew at Freewheelers bike shop in Rochester, for diagnosing the problem over the phone, ( "Oh, your derailleur hanger is bent, bring it in." ) and putting up with an annoying customer.
This week, a couple of touring riders stopped by with a broken rack, and the mechanic lent them his own cargo trailer to finish their multi day 3 hundred+ mile trip.
Nice short 15 mile ride today after some raking and yard chores. Rain tomorrow.
The waxed chain so far is great, no crud seems to cling hard, a quick wipe off with a microfiber cloth makes it sparkle, and no greasy hands or pant legs from the chain. ( and it does sparkle in the sun while trucking along at 25. )
I'm still in the cowardly stage as far as power goes, half power is plenty, and I haven't hit the speed limiter yet ( set, for now, @ 36.6 mph ) since 20+ seems a comfortable speed on gravel. Haven't really done any big hills yet, but over 33 in short drops repeatedly shows high speed stability is good.
One nice thing is zero pedal steer even when jamming up hills and spinning over 90 rpm. Pity they don't make the V-Rex anymore, it's a stiff and efficient frame.
As usual, I did my research after the impulse buy. But the good news is repeatedly seeing the same comment from people who owned them that they regret selling it. A few got another.
And I've got the feelers out for a Titanium frame version, in case one hits the market. Pure greedy ego, I admit, but...
For the folk who wonder why I'm going on about chain waxing...
I don't worry about it with my Motorcycle, with it's belt final drive, and wax is probably a poor choice for a dirt bike since even a 125cc engine is putting a lot more torque into a chain than I can. I'd want to see actual chain testing on a 530 or whatever chain to pick the best lubricant, but unless it's racing there isn't much difference, as long as it's got some lube, because there's power to burn in a motorcycle.
But on a bicycle with it's wimpy motor, ( and especially with my obsolete motor ) it's noticeable percentages in measurable Watts, and short lived, heavily loaded, chains & cogs. The 11 speed cassette for my bike above was $73 bucks, ( discount mail order, $100+ retail ) and you can go 2-300+ bucks for a 12 speed lightweight cassette. Chains are generally $40+ up to silly prices, and you don't even want to ask about front cog wheels.
Bottom line, is the old 7 speed parts have twice the surface area to take the same load, as modern 11-12-13 speed parts, and prices are much higher, so you can rate lubricant differences in Dollars per thousand miles to replace warn parts. And not small dollars.
The numbers here are over 10k kilometers, and parts that are "midrange performance", aka not Walmart bike Chinese crap, but replacing those Walmart bike parts is surprisingly expensive, since you need to replace them with available replacements parts. Figure half the cost for the Walmart bike, if it lasts you long enough to wear stuff out before it breaks and you throw it away.
ttps://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/lubetesting/
Most interesting to me is that I can spend $50 on a tiny bottle of brand name chain lube that doesn't work as well as motor oil left over in your shed, and that's real money for a cheapskate like me. ( and I do buy the high tech stuff where it works )
Unlike my old diamond frame bikes, the laid back ones have the chain running right next to legs and right next to where I pick them up to carry them down the steps outside to ride. A good hand washing with degreasing dish detergent is a must after every ride, and laundry stuff prices are up along with everything else.
Probably more important, is that for years waxing your chain is a Bike Loon thing. My bicycle mechanic friend rides in the rain a lot and uses oil based lubes, for decades, and mocks the Loons that wax. ( He doesn't bitch AT ALL when working on their bikes and his hands don't get dirty, though ) So to be honest, I chose to try waxing, as much for the benefits of cleaner operation and high efficiency, as a visual signal of Bicycle Loon attitude, and to tease my friends.
Yeah, I did it cheapskate with canning paraffin, in a free, used slow cooker, instead of the latest high tech additive products and a Sous Vide machine in a spotless lab, but it's 90% gain for 10% effort...
And so far, I'm happy with it. Even threading the chain through the derailleur is easier with the wax stiffening the chain, and there's no greasy chain marks to wash off clothing and body parts. I'll report later on long term.
Thursday after a Doctor appointment, "Well, you aren't dead yet." , I hit the trail and discovered my road tires are Very Squirrelly on mud and wet grass, especially under extra boost. I ended up turning around after the 5th mile & multiple fishtail saves, switched to acoustic mode, ( no Electric ) and climbed out of the valley trail to get back on pavement across farm fields.
The good news, on the one hand, is the wide range gearing I installed worked as hoped for on steep climbs in acoustic mode, ( it was a "get home if battery dies" choice ) and I didn't crash.
The bad news on the other hand is I really need more practice with the new bike before getting comfortable on technical stuff I consider super easy on my mountain bike, and it really needs knobby tires on mud. Duh.
The gripping hand is I will ride the trike unless the trails are dry for now, adrenaline can be a cheap high, and the deer in my yard freak right out when I get home at speed and roll through the back yard on my trike @ 15+.
I wasn't kidding when I said I bought a cheap Wal-Mart bike and broke it. My buddies chipped in and some also tried it before it broke. ( no one was permanently injured )
But before we rode it to death on trails my old Raleigh road bike handled just fine, we took it apart. Put grease where some belonged, tightened & trued the wheels, bottom bracket, handlebars, seat, powdered and inflated the tubes properly, reassembled the brakes so they actually worked, a bit, ( as opposed to gouging the tires ) and got the entry level shifting to function. No suspension or fancy linkages, luckily.
We did have fun for over an hour ( mocking the poor guy riding it ) before we cracked the frame and the crank arms hit the seat stays, so we had to push it some miles back home.
No big jumps like you see in modern videos, just trail riding, mostly on flat old cinder trolley paths.
We spent more time fixing it so it would function at all, than riding it before it broke.
My point is...
Shop at your local bicycle shop.
They have the tools, and won't sell junk, since they have to fix it. A good shop takes the bike out of the box, and tears it down to properly lubricate and adjust everything before it gets to the showroom or, you. The brakes and shifters work.
And they can get replacement parts for the bikes they sell. Unlike the Big Box stores or cheap mail order.
I'm not going to pick on Chinese bikes, their quality varies from absolute crud to top of the line. Sure, I suggest buying from a free country like Taiwan or maybe Britain if you can, but American and Taiwan etc. bikes will cost more, and the big brands have their cheaper bikes made in China. That's true for brands based in Europe or here, with notable exceptions on the High end like the American company Litespeed that makes lovely Titanium works of art frames.
Ditto components. There's Shimano ( Japan ) and Sram, ( International ) that make parts in their home countries and anywhere they can build a factory with cheap labor.
So I've got China, Taiwan, Kansas, built nice quality parts on my bikes. ( plus Italian, French, Austrian...)
My bikes are generally equipped with cherry picked parts upgraded from stock. A few mail order parts, yes, but mostly from local shops. And I stop to shop whenever I can in my travels to find stuff. ( my racing bike wheels have high flange original Shimano Deore hubs found in a PA tiny shop )
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2023 - 12:22 am:
An older gentleman is emptying out his sheds and dropped off at a local shop a Rans Dynamic crank forward bike to be fixed for sale. Basically a high end beach cruiser, with a very comfy saddle, and the seat tube laid back far enough you can put your feet down and still be sitting. His has Mavic wheels, Sid fork, parts worth more than he's asking, a real bargain.
Here's one without the Rockshok fork and other different parts.
The shop called me to come test ride it, and while my butt was fine, the position beat the heck out of my back just circling a couple of city blocks on beat up sidewalk. I Wanted to like it, & if I had a spine that didn't make doctors wince when they see the X-Ray, it'd be a fun bike. No fence rail narrow racing saddle here. More accessible to beginners and older riders than a full recumbent bicycle.
So... Nope. But he has a collection? So, e-mail and references exchanged I go visit the nice fellow. Rans V-rex with flip up bars? ( I already have one. But... Parts? Out of business company... Hmm. )
Oh, and a Rans ( brand loyalty much? Oh, yeah... ) Velocity Squared ( V2 ) Formula, Very racy LWB aluminum. Well, sure don't need that! I make the mistake of picking it up. Dang. It's really light. Less than my mountain bike. Uh...
So... I got all 3 for less than the parts are worth ( Velocity Thracian wheels alone are $3-400 a pair ) and now I have project clean and lube for winter, and definitely a few For sale come spring.
I didn't intend to lose my mind and fill the shop with weird bicycles, but here I am.
Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2023 - 11:33 pm:
New rear tire, Schwalbe Marathon Tour, to get some traction on the wet grass. ( nothing really works for mud )
Good news is, thick recycled condoms? ( latex rubber ) belt with Kevlar & nylon for puncture resistance. Half their tires seem to be "Marathon" but there's a lot of different versions and this is the one intended for crossing continents and mountain ranges where jeeps are the preferred vehicle. Also Ebike rated over 50kph.
Mediocre news is they are a stone snitch to install, very heavy duty. I didn't break a tire lever, quite. But there was swearing and skinned knuckles. If I do get a flat, it won't be fun to fix. Otoh, they have a good rep for taking effort to get through. That extra 5 mm of rubber.
Test rode the Stratus XP, and as expected, it's a handful at low speed, with front wheel flop, but once rolling, is stable, think Honda Shadow. No speedo, so I don't know how fast I got to, but guess 35-ish on a slight downslope. So next dry day, off to a big parking lot to practice. 559-32 tires. ( 26 x 1.25" ) Surprised how comfortable with skinny touring tires. Still needs a clean and lube, the chain is rusty despite buzzing the daylights out of it and waxing, but I already ordered 2 fresh chains.
The Velocity Squared Formula is in rougher shape. The front tube was dead, so a fresh one went on and pumped up... Why do I feel air on my hand? Huh? That's funny, the tread on this 1" slick...is Growing? !? I dumped the air out before it finished splitting on the circumference, and peeled it off. Local bike shop had a 1.75" semi knobby, so I put that on. The reviews on the V2F complained about harsh ride with the stiff Aluminum frame ( but great for speed ) and recommend fatter tires. I'd intended to try it first with the 1" racer tires, but, looks like not. The rear is getting the 2" Big Apple off the V-rex, since the size mismatch of the skinny suspect rear is a Bad Idea.
Everything on the Velocity Squared is in need of disassembly and lubrication, not to mention barn dirt, so I've got a project just getting it ready to test ride. Otoh, when I'm done it will be a well restored speed machine and ready to go to a new owner unless I fall for it myself. I'm trying to not get attached, which might be hard after all the work it needs.
Also, it's snowing. And the Government is claiming it's the warmest year in history, again.
I'm not in the market for the high end hub transmission, but my buddy just got a Shimano 8 speed Nexus hub & roller brake for his track bike, by buying a used almost new entire commuter bike for nearly nothing. He's budget limited, like me, not unlimited.
There's definitely a market for high end bike transmissions, but it's a tough market.
And I'm skeptical of hydraulics, having come back down trails with bodged cables and field repairs, an order of magnitude less likely with fluid lines.
I've gone to the laid back recumbent bikes for comfort and back injury protection. But the main advantage for most is aerodynamics.
The hole I punch in the air, and the swirling wake to fill it in behind, is, or can be, smaller than my younger body on a racing bike on the drops. I say can be, because on my bike with adjustable seat, I can sit pretty upright, and on the touring 'bents with low cranks and upright seating, it's pretty close to a regular diamond frame bike. But my trike, despite the extra wheel churning the air, my race/fixed seat and high crank is absolutely lower drag, and I can tolerate that low angle & high crank pretty well. So my Electric boosted V-rex is also punching a smaller hole in the air, even when I'm not wearing skin tight cycling gear.
Another advantage is also a curse, the long chain to get the power from the front to back gives relatively low chain angles. You pay for that out of pocket by needing 2-3 chains, and on many bikes a little noise from an idler pulley and/or plastic tube, and mass exists. But unlike my 2x6 & 3x7 1970-90s diamond upright bikes, the long chain isn't badly affected by cross chaining. It's high wear and some power loss to run the extremes of big/big & small/small on a normal bike, so you learn to use the combination that gives you both the cadence you want and the least wear/friction. It's not intuitive, and part of the learning curve to competency.
I've been a full gearing weenie with my gear charts taped to my bars, assembled custom clusters to optimize power & speed, but most people just accept stock parts and use the 2-3 ranges like a 4x4 driver, picking the range that suits the terrain.
Habit and long practice means I still avoid the extremes on my trike, usually, but it's deliberately set up so I can't hurt anything if I get distracted by traffic.
The V-rex bicycle, otoh, has been switched from a 3x9 drive to a 1x11, because the mid drive electric motor has a single gear.
The big selling point for having more gears in back is to get closer ratios so you can keep a more constant leg speed, which some people are very sensitive to, and racers really like to optimize the speed/cadence from long training and personal experience.
Frankly, 7 speeds was fine back when more was a hyper expensive or unattainable, and my 9 speed setups are plenty close/tight enough for me. My 11 speed gearing is for range in the hills and was the cheapest, widest, that could be fit to my existing machines. My Opinion, is 12 & 13 speed setups are past the point of diminishing returns, but that's influenced by the higher cost and refusal to buy entire new frames to accept the new hotness.
Plus, the Luddite in me is rebelling against electric actuators in my drive train. While the tech geek is loving the idea of wireless shifting and etc. The price of a wireless seat post is nuts! Nifty, clean looking, useful, but more than most motorcycles I've owned.
Likewise, the hub transmission trend is big in touring bikes and trikes, but price and the repair/maintenance issues are daunting. I can get a Shimano derailleur adjusted or repaired in any bike shop on the planet. Outer Mongolia or Cat Scratch Tennessee. A Rohloff or Envolio hub? That's going to take international shipping to get it fixed.
The interesting part is the idea of pinwheel aerodynamics on a bike wheel. Taking advantage of a cross wind to drive the spokes like propeller blades/wings, to spin the wheel, negating rolling resistance and aerodynamic drag. Free speed.
But, of course... The trick is getting that to work at different yaw angles, and not be stalled out, increasing drag & sucking energy out of an airflow you want to bend around the wheel & bike.
And you have the problem of asymmetric lift, on the wheel, in front of & behind the axle and steering axis... Especially if the flow reverses at different angles.
Hypothetically, using regular bladed bicycle spokes, with an actuator changing "prop pitch", and a few flow & pressure sensors, you might get the range of yaw angles/speed/drag optimized. An autopilot for the front wheel.
I'm skeptical of pinwheel application to motorcycles. I think it's doable, but probably not worth the weight and cost.
For bicycles, it's technically challenging.
Might work well in cars and trucks, as part of "wheel as propeller" aerodynamic drag ground effect system. Performance and economy/efficiency.
The choice to convert an existing bicycle, or buy a factory built one is the second thing after choosing to get an e-bike in the first place.
If you just want to Ride, not build, and the commuter & mountain bike available for your needs, then just buy a factory machine.
If you want any warranty or service, buy from a local shop. They have access to parts for brands they sell, and most shops won't touch a home brewed or other company model. They just can't get parts and don't have the software & diagnostic cables, etc.
Plus if they didn't assemble it out of the box, they have no idea if it's wired right or if the spinning bits were ever lubed or lined up correctly.
And there's the liability of charging a battery of unknown quality with a charger, ditto, especially in an urban shop with apartments upstairs.
But a local shop setup, factory supported product is the easy way and generally the best choice for the "Don't want to tinker to ride" folk. And selection can be pretty good.
Keep in mind the commuter models will be lots cheaper than a legitimate mountain bike, just like the acoustic bikes in a shop. Suspension systems, solid, reliable drivetrains, and tough, light, frames cost more.
But if you're a DIY guy, have a bike in the shed you want to Ride further, faster, for recreation and fitness, or have a need not met by factory models... Then a kit build works.
Whether or not you save money depends upon a lot of factors.
In the Trike world, most companies offer the Bosch, Yamaha, or Shimano electric upgrade versions because it's easy to build a boom unit to drop in existing models that has the mid-drive/gearbox bracket, instead of a simple crank bottom bracket and derailleur mount.
On a conventional bicycle, the frame has to be built with the special mount, which is luckily standardized fairly well, and the motors mentioned above plus gear box transmission fits. https://bikepacking.com/gear/pinion-gearbox-review /
But that's pretty new and you're unlikely to have one in the shed unless you've bought it the last few years.
The good news is conversion kits for the Old school frames work and can be cheaper, if you can handle the labor and cost of fairly minor, but necessary specialty bicycle tools.
In my case, I'm riding non-standard bikes too old to have the gearbox/motor mounts, so...DIY. Although the industry is catching up and there are a few new models factory built.
Bacchetta makes a great bike, but my V-Rex DIY version has half again as much Power and battery capacity for roughly half the cost. But it's still $1200-1500 added to the cost of my existing complete ( used ) bikes.
Otoh the Chinese kits aren't as refined or low maintenance as the Shimano, Bosch, & Yamaha versions. And
On the gripping hand, the kits offer lots more power, since the factory bikes have to be restricted by local laws.
There's an old bicycling accessories company called Silca. I know the name from the desirable, reliable, and expensive frame mounted manual air/tire pumps. I have a vintage one on my Austro-Daimler racing bike.
And years later, & company ownership changes, they still make that pump, & everything above is still true, including the $100+ price. You can buy a pump just as good at function for less than half the price of the Silca, but not as long lived. Or as good looking imho.
The company makes a lot of products, especially lubes & cleaners with some serious thought behind them.
For example, avoiding solvents that attack the plastic parts, especially seals in bearings, which are exposed to water and crud, and avoiding light penetrating solvents, ( to attack the bearing lube ) in a spray on bicycle wash cleaner.
And... I just bought a bottle of the most niche chemical ever. A liquid designed specifically to strip the factory packing grease on a bike chain, targeted narrowly on only those particular greases used by chain makers, supposed to be incredibly effective, simple to use, eliminates the need for toxic solvents, is biodegradable, made from food grade ingredients, ecologically friendly... It even lays down a wax primer coat to make the lube work better. ( and of course, they sell the Premium Lube, too )
At near max chemically possible, concentration, too concentrated and expensive to use for general solvent/cleaning & not very effective on crud it isn't targeted on. Pretty much a one trick pony.
Silca just released another, even more niche chemical!!!!
It's candy bar size units you put in your wax pot with a factory fresh chain, that converts the sticky factory grease to a wax. And they sell the $100 thermostat controlled pot that has the preset temps for both normal wax jobs @80C plus the 125C temp required to do the grease conversion. Brilliant marketing!
Otherwise you have to carefully monitor your temperatures, to prevent overheating ( break down & fire hazard ) or undercooking.
Which kinda ruins the "it's one easy step" concept, for me, so no sale.
Then... One of the Youtubers from Australia, who does instructions on home made from candles wazing, adding friction improvers like PTFE, just posted a video, where he added a Japanese? consumer cooking grease converter powder, to accomplish the same thing, allegedly. ( product used to solidify used cooking oils into a disposable wax mass, easier and safer than pouring into containers. )
Ha!
DIY 'ers can be hilarious. And sometimes brilliant. ( I'm not trying it, but it makes me laugh. )
Zero Friction Cycling, which sells race prepped chains, chipped in on the cooking oil congealer, by pointing out that the ingredients in the Chinese stuff is a mystery, but the American version uses vermiculite, a heated volcanic rock product. Plus sand and citric acid. He wonders how using enough product for 2+ cups of cooking oil works on 6 grams of chain grease, etc.
Other formulas exist, typically an acid, stearic, citric, etc. & some water absorbing mass.
What, exactly, you get with acid and mystery powder mixed with hot wax soaked into every crevice of a bicycle chain, as far as grinding paste and corrosive goes?
Just soaking a chain in Simple Green overnight can cause microfissures/crystal dislocation, and rapid crack propagation in the little, highly stressed steel of a bike chain. So mystery goo?
Apparently the DIY & the Professional Chain guys are youtube Nemesises to a degree, but the Zero Friction guy insists he's not against DIY waxing, since the DIY guys promote his professionally done product, & his core market is racers and enthusiasts that don't want to bother with or take time to do chain prep, and can just buy speed in a box from him and others in the business.
Considering a top end race chain can cost $100+ and his business sells them with "value added" $50-100+ ) labor and materials, cleaning, waxing, even optionally, a break in before treatment on a torture machine to wear off burrs and burnish moving parts, for absolute minimum power loss... For a pro racer, ( or wannabe, ) being able to use, and have spare, pre-lubed chains worth several seconds or more over the race, is worth a lot more.
It's a pro sport that regulates SOCKS for pity's sake! Seriously. Aero socks. And sock height rules!
The "you can always start a fight about oil" thing is pretty universal.