| Author | Message | ||
     Aesquire |
Sweet. I'm on the recumbent train, so not only am I feeling how out of shape I am, I have to learn & more importantly, unlearn... Stuff. Basically for the winter the E-trike is in the kitchen aimed at the door, for the next dry day ( I'm trying to avoid the salt water drench on the electric stuff, which is second? Gen & not sealed. ) while the F5 high racer is on a mag trainer in the man cave in front of the screen. The trike more than the bicycle, has a hazard of foot suck. If your feet fall off the pedals, at speed, your foot could get swept under the frame & get seriously hurt. So new pedals to learn. I've been running toe clips & straps since before they were plastic. Steel and leather. I use them for sure foot positioning, power, and technical work, able to pull up to clear a rock & stroke circles for smooth power. I tried "clipless" ( clip in, actually, they're called "clipless" 'cause, no toe clips. ) developed from ski bindings, pedals and the required matching shoes, but already had the old skill set and my old ones were lighter. So I ignored them a few decades. But they don't keep your feet from sliding out when you relax. That's actually how you get out, the way I set them up for trails. So they don't work well on a recumbent. The Catrike came with single sided Shimano SPD compatible pedals, & I have a NOS, ( rode once, put back in box ) pair of mtn. bike shoes with SPD pro level cleats already on. Hard to release, hard to engage, but once clipped in, perfection. No worries, however on the trike where I can take all day, and not Artie Johnson over... For the F5, the bike shop sold me the Terracycle stirrups on a set of cheep Wellgo pedals. Very clunky, but I can tell It just needs fine tuning to work fine. But dang, these beginner level pedals and old guy stirrups, just didn't look good on a red racing bike. Rans did a great job on the welds and paint job with subtle metalflake in Kansas back in the 2000's, and I had to learn the clipless pedals anyway... So spend more money! Bought a Crankbrothers Doubleshot1 in red, single side like the trike, with a flat side for starting off or using regular shoes. Shiny. And, of course, since I now have 2 incompatible cleat binding systems, bought a new pair of Giro shoes with a trick Boa wire lacing ratchet! You know, so I could ride both without switching cleats. The cleats from each brand look a lot alike, though the pedal part sure doesn't. Basically the subtle angles and curves in the locking mechanism does the same job, letting you step/clip in, hold you securely and eject you when you twist your leg ( heels out, for most systems ) and you can do engineering papers on the subtlety of the tiny ramps... I bet 90% of anyone on a motorcycle forum would understand it in seconds if you just handed them a cleat and pedal. It's one of those, "oh, of course that's how it works." Things. So, I read the fine manual. Then watch the videos. Fiddle. More videoes. Darn I now know too much about this crap, and they still suck. Talk to a pro bike mechanic, hardcore E biker. He runs flats, with stainless pegs. Shins are overrated. He laughed. New pedals and ancient ones? Oil them. Lube the springs and contact surfaces. Cleats too. And since oil collects dirt, use an evaporating solvent with dry lubricant, like Triflow, or his favorite, Boeshield T-9. ( stupidly expensive aerospace stuff ) And you should use the same stuff on your chain! Back to store, get T-9 uberlubemagikharrypotter oil. Apply. They work! Duh. Clipping in is still a muscle memory process I've just begun, but they just pop on, and ejecting is easy and quick. I'm grateful, feel like an idiot, it's so Obvious sliding bits need lube. And it's a technology marvel we have these lubes. ( I like to wipe the Teflon type lubes on derailleur bodys and such to repel mud. ) New tech fun!!! | ||
| Tpehak |
The 1040 Wh battery is here and it is huge comparing with my Yamaha 500 Wh battery Installed the rear shock absorber. That was quite a challenge to find and adjust the shock mounting hardware and it involved some machining work. The shock mounting fasteners supplied with the Dengfu frame have poor design and possible issues so I had to machine my own custom fasteners to mount the shock | ||
| Aesquire |
Nice work on the custom bits. My bike mechanic buddy has the 48v 17.5Ah Bafang rack mount battery, it's about the same physical size. roughly 3 by 7". Lots of range at speed, in the hills 30+ miles, depending. On a lot of things. 750 watt motor. I haven't figured my range out yet, Was told 12-30 miles by the bike shop owner who was riding it as his daily. In the serious hills around Alfred University. 11.6Ah, if I read the manual right. It's 4-5 years old, maybe older.  | ||
| Aesquire |
I generally agree... One difference between my Stowe Rhino & a "modern" gravel bike is the handle bars. The, Rhino is a racing hybrid ( road race/cyclecross ) predecessor, that led pretty directly to the gravel bike. The gravel bikes adopted the cyclecross drop bars... It's a personal preference thing. I have used the cyclecross bars on my bike, but am more confident riding tough technical terrain on mountain bike flat bars, and by using bar end brush catchers,  get the lower aero position for road runs. I have a wide chest, and breath better on wider bars than skinny racer boys would run. The other difference is gearing. I run a racing mountain bike triple up front and wide range in back to tackle steep rough climbs a gravel bike would choke on. I lose a bit at top speed, but gain it back with aero rims. Which, for Me at my moderate speeds, actually makes my Rhino faster than my Olympian road race bike on the road, which has olde school ultralight non-aero rims. Your results may vary. I could get aero rims for the road bike & regain it's supremacy, but I won't. I have the "all road" or "gravel" bike Rhino seating position on the bar ends within millimeters of the road bike when on the brake hoods. ( and brakes I can use in both positions, the regular flat grips & bar end extensions ) And the Rhino has a suspension seat post and stem. So it's more comfortable than the non-suspended road bike. So I don't even ride the racing bike... Pity. Being able to jam at speed on pavement, then dive down a single track trail just rules. I note that the bar end setup I like has become quite rare. Alternatively! My buddy Bruce swears by mountain bike hard tails with 1 3/4-2" road tires, for his commute and has knobby tires at home if he wants to really go off road. ( or his track bike if it's a flat road ride, he's a powerful and seasoned racer ) I've run that setup myself, it works. But I have the lightweight Rhino and it's faster and easier until it gets really rough. Otoh... If it's really gnarly single track and big drops, my full suspension Stump Jumper just rules. It's not a full on downhill bike, but I very seldom ride at a bike park where you take a ski lift up. I'm pedalling up any hill I ride down so my "regular" old school mountain bike is geared to climb. It works on the road, too, actually quite comfy with the inverted tread road tires currently on it, too. But notably slower, & heavier on road than a hard tail or gravel bike. Ultimately I think tire choice and fit make the biggest difference. The wider the more nasty you can handle. Although the 3"+ Fat tires rule on snow and sand, they sap power like a succubus. ( plus I don't own one ) And tread makes a difference too. A continuous center tread, is faster and smoother on pavement. But slips and spins out on wet roots. Full knobby tackles the woods and rocks, but buzzes and loses traction in corners on the road. TANSTAAFL. But the right compromise can fit your needs pretty good. | ||
| Aesquire |
My new high racer was an impulse buy and an act of defiance. I'm not ready to give up 2 wheels. And luck. The bikes on sale included a Bacchetta Corsa 700, but it didn't fit. So I got a great deal on a Rans Force 5. My first high racer, ( I've ridden other long and short wheelbase recumbent bikes before, but not like this one ) I've got it on a mag trainer, and am getting it dialed in, since it's -3. ( and salty roads ) And doing research, which is a bit difficult. Hilarious, to me, is that I inadvertently seem to have chosen the bicycle equivalent of my Cyclone. Company out of business, very quick & outstanding handling, not suitable for beginners, the bargain version with the same frame as the top of the line, but a cheaper fork, etc. And fanatically loyal owners. | ||
| Tpehak |
Almost done. This thing can spin the wheel over 70 mph. That bike is gonna be faster than my Buell. It is going to be faster even than Optibike and have better full carbon components for 1/3 of the Optibike price.   | ||
| Tpehak |
The e-bike is complete    | ||
| Aesquire |
Nifty. I got the replacement mount for the trike's computer, and, of course, it snowed. Afaik, the computer display, for power & speed, works, but the wiring on the mount is bad, hair thin wires not connected under tape. The steering handlebars are a bit crowded, with an assist handle & mirror mount on both sides, but it's going to take some miles to get the cockpit dialed in. I'd remove the assist handles, they make it a tight fit carrying the Catrike sideways through the door, but they're set up as purchased as protective roll cage for the mirrors, and are where the Motor controller mounts. There's no normal handlebars with horizontal bar sections on the thing. You can steer with the assist bars for a second hand position too, albeit without brakes. I'll have a better feel for speed when I get a ride with the hopefully working computer. Today's a maintenance day, the Caravan's computerized fuse box arrived and it should get over freezing. Fingers crossed. And getting the E-motor console setup on the Catrike. Still getting used to the Crank Brothers pedals on the high racer ( on the trainer, I'm not trying 25mm slicks in the snow. I know better ) and think I might have made the mental breakthrough in clipping in. Screw subtlety, stomp on them. Not as easy when the push is forward and up, instead of down. I think I've got the cleats setup right, per video, there's more detail to make it interface clean and solid than it seems. Shims, etc. The funny part is after watching dozens of videos, only ONE had the important part that my bike mechanic buddy explained to me. Lube the fracking pedals and cleats with a non-sticky chain lube. There's always time for lube! | ||
| Aesquire |
I've found a few more obscure facts on the Rans Force 5 high racer. 73.5 degree headtube angle, and somehow it's a mix of the lower price point version, ( same frame on both ) SRAM drive train and comfy seat, vs. Ultegra & thin seat, but I have the higher version carbon fork vs. Aluminum on the base model. ( custom order? ) The rubber grips on the SRAM X-7 shifters has gone gummy ( time deterioration ) and I found new ones, but had to get left & right from different companies. Discontinued parts. It's the original super stiff frame design, & you can feel that, ( compared to other SWB recumbents like the Bacchetta Corsa ) even on the trainer, and getting a couple hours a week on the silly thing has made me more comfortable on it. I'm looking forward to getting myself programmed to slow speed maneuvers, with heel overlap & bar/knee interference requiring a boost/coast & foot position technique that isn't much different than a full TT racer diamond frame machine. Still a question of whether the Rans or the Stumpjumper gets the electric motor. Hammer the trails? Or zoom the roads? I'm ready to drop the dollars on the motor and battery kit, which will work on either. | ||
| Aesquire |
A little into & opinion for folk looking to buy a trike. Catrike is made in Florida, USA. Terratrike ( US company ) in Taiwan. Between the two, the more expensive Catrike just plain steers better, with proper Ackermann steering geometry. The Catrikes have 2 distinct frame lines, the original non adjust seat angle space frame racers, ( Pocket, Expedition, 700 ) and the adjustable luxury models. The racers come with rear wheels & thus frame lengths with 20", 26", & 700C wheels respectively. IMHO... Smaller riders should try the Pocket. You need taller gearing to get the same speed, but dang it's compact and fast. The Expedition is for taller riders, but short guys can still fit with boom adjustments. Ditto the longer 700, which was the undisputed king of speed until the ICE VTX from Britain was developed. ( and that's a question of details, like adjustable seats, not raw speed ) Honestly it's only a few MPH between them, including the Pocket, depending upon gear ratios. Only the serious recumbent bicycles are faster, and the faster streamliners. The luxury Catrike models break down to the Villager, high seat ( easier to get in & out of, ) and Trail, 559 & Dumont lower seat trikes. 20", 26", & 26" with suspension. More money and weight than the space frame racers, but adjustable seats and folding features are probably worth it. I look forward to seeing how my ancient body and low drag compete with the "normal" race bikes on the road. With the electric boost it should be utterly unfair, but I'm curious how fast I can go on pure muscle. There's also ICE from Britain, AZUB from the Czech Republic, and HP Velotechnik from Germany, in rough order of cost. All good! The titanium suspension Ti-Fly AZUB line is super sweet, but we're getting pretty pricy. The HP Velotechnik Scorpion line is considered the Luxury touring king. ( with "Dang!" price to match ) And ICE has a nice range, with the VTX as the European speed machine. Ultimately it gets down to personal preference. Suspension, steering ( direct or under seat ) and wheel sizes have to be matched to the riding you want to do. My local riding is split between hilly terrain and flat bike paths that go on for miles. I need broad gearing and want efficient speed. I will probably upgrade later to a folding model, and maybe a 700c speedster, but I'm happy now with my budget, used, Expedition. It's darn fast & with 2" Schwalbe Big Apple Tires, seems cushy enough so far. | ||
| Aesquire |
yea! computer on trike works. | ||
| Oldog |
That bike is gonna be faster than my Buell.  you had to go there, congrats on the build it looks good, I would be interested in riding stats and impressions when you are done.} we will see about the faster than when the e-bike is 10 years old .... | ||
| Aesquire |
Battery aging is a real thing. Assuming a thousand charge decay to 40% capacity, in 3 years or less, a daily driver is going to lose range in a fairly steep curve, and hopefully be capable of a rebuild with fresh cells. Anyone with an older motorcycle has experienced the problem of obsolete parts. As they get used up... My buddy's '79 Yamaha is getting harder to keep running. I don't know how long the particular battery cell popular in 2023 will be available from other than sketchy Chinese factories. I own flashlights that use the same batteries ( individual cell ) as my e-trike. But as a consumer level long term item, it's NOT a AAA type product that Panasonic or Duracell will produce for decades, the technology and obsolescence is moving quick. And the cheap Chinese batteries have serious problems, maybe, although I bet the cheap chargers are the underlying cause for most fires. https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/athena-thorn e/2023/03/14/e-bike-batteries-are-burning-down-new -york-city-n1678099 This is a case of poor quality control and some ignorant/abuse by consumers. It's natural, if unfortunate, that poorer folk buying the cheap stuff have more catastrophic events. As I've said in the science thread, a energy density goes up, so does risk. Gasoline is more hazardous than wood. Lithium batteries more hazardous than Ni-cads. My advice is to not skimp on the charger, buy, if available, the smart versions that stop charging when they sense the battery is full or malfunctioning. If not available, use a timer so the batteries don't get too fried by the dumb chargers. | ||
| Tpehak |
My 6 years old Yamaha battery with more than 1000 charging cycles still works like day 1. | ||
| Aesquire |
You did know the deterioration is in watt hour capacity, not voltage, right? On a curve, not exactly exponential, but similar. The simplest analogy is the D cell shrinking over time to a C, then AA, then AAA. All the same volts, just less time it can produce them. Voltage drop is end stage deterioration. Also self discharge rate goes up on a curve, too. Not noticeable at first, then... | ||
| Tpehak |
 | ||
| Aesquire |
I like your wheels better. I'm of the opinionated opinion that 3" wide tires really want electric boost to be practical , because of rolling resistance, but golly darn they work well in the snow compared to the 2" tires on My antique mountain bike. The 3" Burn glycogen like crazy on pavement, in my limited experience. My Catrike is running 2" wide Schwalbe Big Apple tires for traction and " suspension ". I'm currently running them at 60 psi, and I'll play with pressure as the time passes to find the balance between cush & rolling resistance. The trike has a very rigid frame, and some cushion is nice. I will try some skinny slicks later this spring to see if it's good for the local "round a Finger Lake" rides. The Cayuga Lake Trail is 110 miles. | ||
| Aesquire |
Watched a video the other day where the idea was "can cheap racing bikes handle the Paris-Roubiax?" a race famous for cobblestone medieval road segments. By riding The last 25 miles with lots of cobbles. The answer is, of course. Today's mid range ( their idea of cheap, not a Wal-Mart bike! ) road bike is better than last century's pro race machines. The riders also got the snot beat out of them. Duh. What amused me was my Stowe "gravel" bike was next to the screen, ( I was on my Rans on the mag trainer, watching ) is set up perfect for such rides, with suspension seat post & stem. And tires almost a centimeter wider, to be fair. Tire size may be the biggest factor in traction/comfort/performance. My Stowe is designed for speed off the smooth pavement, and with the proper tire choice is good on tight single track or pavement. Today it has road tires, since the last time out was a 100k Canal Path run. Come to think of it... Yep, I need new knobbies. Gave the half worn ones to a neighborhood kid. | ||
| Aesquire |
I also "need" new helmets, bicycle and motorcycle. I assume 10+ years deteriorated the EPS foam. The only way to be sure is to destroy it, so... Rode 9.1 miles Friday, on surface roads and trail. A lot on no boost, down the bigger bills in regenerative mode, and the rest on boost 1 of 4. With liberal, dare I say, progressive application of throttle on the steeper uphills. The Lehigh valley trail runs right past the local biker bar. Refueling stop #1 ! Good breakfast and snacks. Maybe a breakfast run 4.8 miles one way Tuesday? | ||
| Aesquire |
I used to work in... a lot of metal machining. One place had rope barriers and signs that would just move along the floor from machine to machine with the Magnesium castings being worked on. No Water. Just don't. But Magnesium is easy to put out. relatively. I also did Mil-spec & OSHA paperwork, so I also got to deliver the briefing to the local fire department on our company special hazards. ( they Love that ) "If you get a fire call from us, and you see a really really bright white light? A. Don't look into the light the light is not your friend. B. don't spray water on the bright light, the water will just explode. Spray water on the walls and ceiling near the bright light and hopefully the rest of the place won't burn down. Don't worry about the small explosions from spray, it's just Hydrogen & oxygen, no toxic hazard. Oh, and if you can, stand with something solid between you and the bright light. It's blinding and will catch you on fire. C: Don't breath the choking black smoke. D: don't try to put out the bright light. You don't have anything that can, and you should know the bad things that happen if you use the stuff you do. Water cracks down to hydrogen and oxygen and violently explodes. CO2 cracks down to carbon and oxygen and violently burns, with thick black smoke. Dry chemicals crack down to a variety of really weird chemicals you don't want to pronounce, much less breath. Sand cracks into splattering molten glass and fire. Really hot fire. Actually burning glass. Helium, Argon, Krypton, and Radon will put the fire out in large quantities, and we have the first 2 in the welding room. Don't use Radon or everyone dies. In the Town. Slowly. You can't afford the Krypton. Any questions?" | ||
| Aesquire |
The good news from the above post is that Titanium alloys are very hard to light on fire. You gotta run away and try to save the building, but it's rare. Shops that don't treat combustible metals with care... Burnt down. In the late 1970s, we got some nifty aerospace alloys. While S&W was mixing traces of rare elements to build ultra strong lightweight magnums, those elements are too expensive for building airplanes. So Lithium and Aluminum were combined in vacuum chamber alchemical furnaces, and extruded into ultra strong sheets and shapes. You only need a smart & willing to read, welder to deal with the end product. Masking gas shields and proper welding rods/wire done properly are reasonably safe. The big hazards are in the furnaces. Specialized ones. Lithium alloy sheet in the battery factory is quite hazardous. If the factory is well run, the end product is only a little dangerous. See all the Samsung problems with the Chinese battery factory for what a poorly run setup buys you. My OPINION, subject to change, is that on the E-bike sized cells, ( same as last year's Tesla ) The 2 problems are crappy batteries and chargers. Lousy batteries are obvious. ( not to see, but to understand ) Lousy chargers are more subtle, and probably the biggest risk. Unlike a Tesla, which has a computer to monitor charging, a home E-thing charger is a dumb brick. Some may be smarter, but how can you tell? You don't want to over volt these Lithium chemistry batteries, so make sure you use the right charger for the application. ( my trike uses 48 volts, but my next kit may run 52 ) So use caution when charging battery packs. Don't leave them plugged in for days. | ||
| Tpehak |
I have finished my custom 80A 52V battery pack for my 3000W Innotrace X1 motor. This thing pulls hard! Can go 40 mph on flat easy! The details are here https://www.emtbforums.com/threads/tqfreaks-dengfu -e55-build-thread.32525/page-5#post-480116 | ||
| Aesquire |
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8I3jmic7-to Loon on road bike and really steep road. The rider is a talented amateur racer who loves climbs. Improbably fit and annoyingly low BMC. ( aka, darn skinny b@#$%&^ ) The bicycle is a state of the art carbon fiber aero wonder, that costs more than half the cars and all the motorcycles I've ever owned. Might be more than all the motorcycles combined. It's set up wrong. For the job. Ironically, while my motor ( legs ) has never had the power & endurance of this video guy, and sure doesn't today, I do have the bicycle set up for insane climbs with the gearing to make it up that hill. It's a 1990s state of the art hand brazed True Temper butted steel frame with aero wheels and suspension stem & seat post. And most importantly for climbing, 3x7 wide range gearing specifically designed for brutal uphills. Since I didn't have summer ski lift or vehicle ride bike parks in my area last century, so if I wanted to hammer down mountain trails, I had to climb the mountain myself. But with the level road speed to stay with the peloton on 50k rides in the Finger lakes. I'd love to see the video rider on my bike on that hill. I'm not flying to Italy to tackle it. But it's in my work stand getting lubed up for next week's ride in the hills near Alfred U. | ||
| Tpehak |
Motor combined with speed system | ||
| Aesquire |
That looks like a nifty and seriously expensive bike. They make a boom for my Catrike that you could bolt that motor/gear box on, but I'd need a chain sprocket, since the drive line is longer than a normal bike. And passes through a plastic tube under the seat, which would be a problem with a cog belt. I'm not yet riding daily, but I'm getting in a couple a week from between a quick 4.4 miles around the block, and 10 miles to the closest 7/11 & back. Getting the "pick it up and carry it sideways through the door" part figured out. | ||
| Aesquire |
How's your customized beast running? | ||
| Tpehak |
It runs good. 3000W power with 260Nm torque and 40-45 mph on flat is significantly higher than what Optibike offers and all this power and speed is just for less than 1/3 of Optibike price. Now I am trying to find the most durable chain because of such torque squishes the regular bicycle chain rollers within a few hundred miles. (Message edited by TPEHAK on June 22, 2023) | ||
| Aesquire |
Thanks, good to hear. Confirms my decision to keep to just 750 watts rated on my next build. What size chain? 10,11,12 speed? ( 9 speed chains are heavier, that's what my Catrike uses. But that's just me stressing the chain since it's a rear hub motor design ) | ||
| Tpehak |
8 speed chain. | ||
| Aesquire |
https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/g40921278/bes t-bike-chains/#product-12323fa1-f2f0-463c-bdef-32d b8ba274f2 My first thought was SRAM. They have more friction losses than Ultegra or the best KMC, but they have a rep for longevity. #2, lube. The best is hot wax after ultrasonic cleaning, but drip wax is almost as good. Reduces ingress of grit which eats the chain from inside. But any oil done every ride is better than nothing. Cleaned & Olive oil is better than dirty & dry. Hot wax tip. Bulk cheap paraffin from the grocery or hobby store is actually pretty good. But Silca has extra additives and comes in a sous vide bag, so you can drop a clean chain in the bag and stick it in water in your crock pot or sous vide bath and have zero clean up. Good for 4-5+ chains. And you can top off the Silca bag with cheaper wax. Just let it drip back into the bag. But... Wax is a full nerd solution. Easiest on new chains. AFTER STRIPPING THE ANTI RUST NO STAIN STOCK COATING! Always clean the crud out of a new chain. Hot ultrasonic is easiest. The stock coating is formulated to not stain the box and prevent rust as it sits on the display shelf. It's lousy, sticky lube and the chain will last twice as long if you remove it and use anything else. Coincidentally, I was just given a used ultrasonic cleaner, so the next few weeks will be clean and wax time for the 3 bikes lined up. But normally I'm too lazy to remove a chain for waxing. ( I DO clean new chains in a jar, by shaking it with degreaser then alcohol, then water, then drying, then drip lube ) So I either spray it cleaner with aerosol dry lube, ( a bit wasteful, but lazy fast ) or sit down and use the Park Tool cleaning gizmo, dry with compressed air, then drip... Currently using Boeshield T-9 for drip. And WD-40 Teflon dry lube for spray. Both wax and Boeshield T-9 ( wax & solvent ) need to sit overnight to dry before a ride or it slings off. https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/ |
