| Author | Message | ||
     Hootowl |
No, Sami, a lawful order is a specific thing in the military. I’m sorry that I assumed you knew what that meant when I used the phrase. You can, and are required to, refuse unlawful orders, but you are bound by oath, and therefor by law, to carry out a lawful order while serving in the armed forces. | ||
| Hootowl |
40 years ago there was a std epidemic. That’s when it started. | ||
| Sami |
Jeff, An order has to be lawful to be binding, I agree with you. But this gets us into the question of what is lawful. Compulsory sterilisation used to be lawful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_steriliza tion | ||
| Sami |
"40 years ago there was a std epidemic. That’s when it started." That's around the time when the gay scene started. | ||
| Crusty |
I've got news for you. The Gay scene's been going on for millennia. | ||
| Sami |
John, Yes, it's even written about in the Bible. The sin of sodomy brings destruction of epidemic proportions. The STD epidemic is evidence of that. | ||
| Hootowl |
A lawful order is one you can carry out without violating the law. You are conflating actions taken by government/politicians with those of a military member given a lawful order, and that is the subject at hand. There are also direct orders. They are different, which is why I make the distinction by saying lawful order. For example, I, as a E6, could give lawful orders, as long as they didn’t conflict with the orders of my superiors. An officer can give a direct order, which can conflict with a superior’s order. The one given the direct conflicting order must obey, whereas the member does not have to, and should not, obey my conflicting, but still lawful, order. Clear as mud?  | ||
| Sami |
A direct order can override a lawful order, but not vice versa. Got it. So is vaccination in your case a direct order or a lawful order? Or is vaccination an action taken by government/politicians? | ||
| Hootowl |
Not quite. A lawful order cannot override a superior lawful order, or a standing order. A direct order can. Only officers can issue direct orders and they are culpable for the fallout. A standing order is usually a written order having to do with the operation or daily routine of a command or station. The requirement to be vaccinated would likely be a standing order. | ||
| Sami |
OK. Who is responsible for issuing standing orders? | ||
| Hootowl |
Commanding officers, and their delegates, generally, but it could be others. In the case of a vaccine, a standing order would likely be issued by the chief of naval operations, in the case of the Navy, and your commanding officer would carry out that order by ordering you to report to medical at a certain time on a certain date to receive the vaccine. If you failed to show, you would be considered in a state of unauthorized absence from your appointed place of duty, and if you were obstinate about it, they’d probably hit you with disobeying orders too. The Navy had to deal with people who didn’t want the anthrax vaccine during desert shield/storm. They were dealt with. Nobody liked the sort of folks who swore an oath and then tried to weasel out when it wasn’t convenient for them. | ||
| Aesquire |
40 years ago, there was no obesity epidemic. 40 years ago, there was no opioid epidemic. 40 years ago, there was no STD epidemic. Some things were better 40 years ago. So, the 1980s. I'll ignore the hype "epidemic" except where appropriate. Yes, there was an obesity problem, in richer countries, like the U.S., UK, Germany, etc. Botswana, not as much. Opiods? Hell yes. "Just say no" was a Reagan administration mantra. True, it was Afghani heroin, ( still is, it funds the Taliban, still ) not Chinese narco-terrorist fentnayl but we had a crisis. And STDs peaked 20 odd years ago. 40 years ago AIDS was a new & growing Epidemic. And sure, it was far worse among Gays, and still is a bigger problem if you are into anal unprotected sex. Which according to MEMES is something the current generation is outright proud to do more than ours. That and taking selfies with bears. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5021a2 .htm I do agree some things were better 40 years ago. I was in better shape. https://www.infoplease.com/year/1981 Let's see. Islamist terrorism was on the rise, because Jimmy Carter was a fool. Sadat assassinated, John Paul II and Reagan shot, and I missed being a Hostage by a week. Ah, good times! https://www.infoplease.com/year/1982 War. Murder, Sea Harriers showed how awesome they were. ( I like aerospace ) I admit, in fact, complain, that racism has risen since Barry the Weasel took office sponsored by rich men and made Communist Agitprop Official Policy. It was vanishing except for a few professional victims like Al Sharpton, so 40 years ago was better than 2020, but not 2019! And 2008 was far better than 40 years ago for racism. A LOT of centuries were better than 2020 for sponsored Hate. Communist Agitprop became Media Mandate. Medicine, recreational vehicles, 40 years ago vs. Now, it's mixed. Hang gliders are much better, but there's far fewer places to do it. There's really cool off road toys but they cost what a Mercedes does. Lots of diseases are no longer a problem, except in Third World Hell wannabes like California. Freedom of the press is screwed, true. And we have a political prostitute owned by the CCP in office, who has staffed up with Jew hatin communists, so 2021 until the counter revolution, promises to have more genocide and war than usual. The current Supercold sent us by God King Xi may be looked back on with nostalgia, if the Next biowar attack is as bad as it could be. It's been scary, to me, the potential for biological script kiddies negligently genocidal "it was a prank!" plague. It's just possible now to genetically target a virus, ( As Covid-19 may indeed be designed to kill blacks in this year's prototype war ) So something with a 79% fatality rate for folk with, say, Scandinavian genes? Only 40% for the rest, and you've got death that makes 1914-22 great years, even including WW1. More likely today is CCP2021 which probably will be much "better" at killing elderly and non-chinese. So, generally I disagree, but it's not all better. Islamofascism, Leftism, and Karens are definitely negative trends. | ||
| Aesquire |
So, seriously, the point is there is a difference between saying it is still experimental vs saying we don't know the long term consequences of this new medicine/vaccine.....because it's new. Normally I'd agree. New flu shot every year is not experimental. There's risk, but that's always true. And not all the Coronavirus vaccines are the New Experimental mRNA types. There are classic attenuated virus vaccines in testing today, https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines /different-vaccines.html And the Russian one uses ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_V_COVID-19 _vaccine a Viral Vector design. So long term effects of the shots the New York Cuomo minions lost millions of, are absolutely in the category of Experimental. There has never been large scale use of this technology. I'm not worried about it. But I'm not a young pregnant women. Testing on THAT group is just beginning, and it's not a controlled study, it's a shotgun blast of "good luck!". Mostly because there are serious ethical issues with testing drugs that might cause birth defects. Even then, wild cards happen. The medical panic prone always point at Thalidomide. Which was only a problem for fetuses borne by Vitamin B deficiency women. It was something no one would test for, even today. "I'd like to test our new drug on every possible combination of illnesses, so go find me the fraction of a percent that will have an adverse reaction with your psychic powers" isn't a real thing. ( The psychics are home playing the stock market and appearing on midnight radio shows about HARP and Aliens. ) | ||
| Hootowl |
Say what you want about aliens, but don’t joke about harp. Or chemtrails. That shit’s real, yo.  | ||
| Tpehak |
(Message edited by TPEHAK on February 19, 2021) | ||
| Aesquire |
I respect HARP. But I can prove Chemtrails aren't real. Google told me so. | ||
| Hootowl |
Actually, aliens are real. It is inconceivable that there isn’t life out there. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
I'm scheduled to get my first shot Friday. I will let ya know if my arm falls off or if I turn into a flesh eating zombie... | ||
| Aesquire |
https://nypost.com/2021/02/19/rattled-gov-cuomo-ra nts-against-covid-19-lies/ | ||
| Sami |
Aliens exist, they are fallen angels. These fallen angels appear alien to us, hence the name. Chemtrails can be used to combat climate change. Chemtrails act like a "white sheet" covering the Earth, this covering reflects sunlight and supposedly bring temperature down. These Scientists Have a Wild Plan to Throw Salt into the Atmosphere. Here's Why. https://www.livescience.com/62140-can-salt-stop-cl imate-change.html Quote: "But other climate scientists aren't so sure. This idea falls into the category of geoengineering — a deliberate, large-scale attempt to change the environment as a means to counteract climate change." (Message edited by Sami on February 21, 2021) | ||
| Sami |
Jeff, that is true of military personnel, following orders comes with the territory. The same is not true of civilians, who make up the majority of the population. Civilians are not subject to following orders since they have not taken an oath. It seems that there are 4 ways by which people take vaccines: 1. By taking orders. 2. By making an informed choice. 3. By making a fear-based choice. 4. By using force. It's safe to say that more civilians choose to take vaccines due to fear (3) rather than due to being well-informed (2). Bill Gates' claim, that people don't have a choice, seems to have been directed at civilians as well as military personnel. Whereas military personnel can be dealt with for refusing the vaccine, as you mentioned, the same cannot be said of civilians. How to deal with civilians who refuse the vaccine? | ||
| Sami |
Patrick, Doesn't the CIA manage the Afghani opium production? Obesity epidemic hasn't gone away and has arguably gotten worse. Lots of diseases are no longer a problem, but vaccination cannot take all the credit. Sanitary practices and indoor plumbing are the heroes of the story here, especially in the third world where many poor people use the streets and the rivers as toilets. Indeed, California comes to mind. | ||
| Aesquire |
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2021/02/new -coronavirus-cases-plummet-in-u-s-and-the-uk.php Trump saved lives. Chemtrails are a hoax. Anything that costs airlines fuel isn't real. You can't hide the cash flow. Fallen angels? Sounds like a bad version of Pyramids by Aliens. Bigfoot is Lucifer?  | ||
| Sami |
"Anything that costs airlines fuel isn't real." Hey! That means Covid isn't real, because it costs airlines fuel. Fallen angels are real, far more real than this Covid craze. We are living in a fallen world, if by this point you don't believe in God and angels, then you might as well believe that Epstein killed himself. | ||
| Hootowl |
“It's safe to say that more civilians choose to take vaccines due to fear” Do you have any evidence to back up that assertion? I believe people take vaccination because they know they are safe and effective. Sanitation is, as you correctly observed, very important, but it did not wipe out polio and smallpox. Can you tell us why you are so dead set against a technology that has prevented million upon millions of deaths? | ||
| Sami |
Jeff, just because something is safe and effective doesn't mean that most people should take it. And what is safe and effective may turn out to be different down the path. Heroin used to be safe and effective, it was even prescribed to babies. | ||
| Aesquire |
Oh, it's not atheism, it's skepticism. Not about God or messengers, about people seeing angels in toast and weather balloons. I've been part of a UFO sighting. I hope the statute of limitations has expired! No details, but we didn't realize that an alleged possible violation of airspace ( we checked the map and stayed low enough, we thought! ) would have so many witnesses. Thankfully that was before cell phones. We weren't identified. I admit, being mistaken for angels as well as aliens would have been even funnier when we saw the News the next morning. I wonder if the waitress at the IHOP in Redacted noticed when our table got real quiet. It was one of those "oh, S%&+!" moments. I had a second one when I had to work with the FAA officials that afternoon. Fortunately few take flying saucers seriously. | ||
| Sami |
Jeff: "Can you tell us why you are so dead set against a technology that has prevented million upon millions of deaths?" This is a loaded question, I have been vaccinated for certain things, so it isn't the case that I'm dead set against vaccines. However, neither am I dead set for vaccines. It is too simplistic to make vaccines into a "dead set for or dead set against" issue. (Message edited by Sami on February 21, 2021) | ||
| Aesquire |
Heroin? Nope. Morphine, yes. And Coca leaves were used to make the Good Old Coke. A lot of people got addicted to opium products sold as nerve tonics and to relieve menstrual discomfort. The history of "food supplement" products, prohibition, and drug addiction is long and tragic. Really great bribes to politicians though! Heroin has a freaky history that's ironic and a warning about medical testing. Developed as a less addictive replacement for morphine, it turns out that there is a minority of humans that are not susceptible to opiate addiction. They tend to be detail oriented, so when the researchers volunteered to test it, by sheer luck, the test group were all in that minority, so the initial findings were very promising and were published. Cat, bag, cliche. Oops! So we know today you need an ethnically diverse test group to try to cover more genetic variation. That's not racism, that's statistics. Never mind the myth that math is racist. | ||
| Aesquire |
How to deal with civilians who refuse the vaccine? I have my opinion, but I assume the Harris/Biden* regime will use Chinese style Social Control and limit rebel's options by cutting them off from travel, bank accounts, and civil rights. Hope I'm wrong. I don't see any need to mandate vaccination, but I'd expect the Teacher's Exploitation Unions to demand vaccination as a requirement to open schools. Doesn't the CIA manage the Afghani opium production? Wouldn't be much surprised, do we blame George, Barry, or the Swamp? |
