| Author | Message | ||
     Ebutch |
A liberal arts education & a dollar can get you cup of Coffee! Too Bad You Weren't Taught Shit From Shinola!  }} | ||
| Aesquire |
Coronavirus tastes like gator.  I'm amused by the "tastes like chicken" meme myself. I'm waiting for the Jurassic Park wannabes to bring back a dinosaur so we can see what it tastes like... Probably like a croc or gator, which are remnant dinos. As are birds. Humor aside... I think while thread overlap/wrong thread comments are valid, it should be given AND taken as well intended correction of a minor error. Re: masks & liberty. I'm pretty darn libertarian in overall attitude. Civil disobedience of unjust laws might get my support in most cases. And, ( not but ) I've been involved in emergency health care, basic First aid, First responder training and we live in a world where there are diseases that Will Kill You & There Is No Cure. We always have lived in that world, it's just that education is crap and many people think they live in an idealized world where things are always as they are now. And late 20th century America was, indeed, a place where deadly disease was rare, and our fantastic and advanced medical science could cure most bacterial infections. & we had vaccines for the most common child killing viruses. But not the "exotic" imports, which included AIDS. AIDS changed the health care system. Radically. So for the last 40+ years, folk who understood the REAL world, learned to wear gloves when dealing with other people's fluids, like blood and snot. And masks. AND, I'll remind you, the rapidly mutating "common cold" NEVER went away, and every year we got the annual ( fall ) influenza pandemic, & just called it the "flu season" . The guy in the video? He's a freedom living patriot. Has a good grasp of some history. And I completely agree that it's a great idea to carry a basic emergency med kit with gloves, ( to protect you AND the person you help ) quick clot, ( I've wished for that, & it sucked ) and a pressure bandage. I'm less thrilled with untrained folk with a tourniquet, but they can be life saving. His comments on masks are spot on. | ||
| 86129squids |
"A liberal arts education & a dollar can get you cup of Coffee! Too Bad You Weren't Taught Shit From Shinola!" Too bad all you know are epileptic Oprah and idiotic memes. I won't change your judgement of me, and don't really care. Simply stay ON TOPIC. You may not, but I certainly DO care about the salient debate on THIS thread about COVID19. Go have fun at your nearest COVID19 superspreader Trump rally. Again, the thread for idiotic memes is elsewhere on the Quick Board. | ||
| Sifo |
I see the willfully ignorant and dishonest misinformation merchants are still going strong around here. The message still seems to be "ignore reality so I'm not inconvenienced". Pretty sad IMO. Remember Blake saying this on April 2... "I don't remember your prediction. I'm sticking with 30,000 total mortality. I'm an optimist." Telling me how off I was and flaunting amazing math skills. The funny thing is that he continues to post his charts trying to push that idea that it's never gotten far, far worse than he ever expected. Off by about 450% and still going, but pay no attention, all is fine! Herd immunity is kicking in and will stop the spread! What a load of bullshit! It's no worse than the flu. Bullshit! Ignore the warnings of 100,000 to 200,000 that will die. Bullshit! Fact is, the epidemiologists knew what they were talking about. Blake, I really liked when you dropped S. Korea from your charts because they were "boring", but praised Sweden as having gotten it "right". Bullshit! Boring is what you want. Sweden OTOH, is extremely high in cases per million of population, and a world leader in deaths per million of population. How that becomes getting it right is simply beyond me. Boring old S. Korea OTOH, was on top of it, locked down their hot spots quickly until they were under control, the population voluntarily wore masks and practiced social distancing, and they managed to not destroy their economy doing all of that. Of course you claimed that masks, social distancing, and other non-medical interventions simply do not work. Of course your favorite state of TX is a great case study in that.  As predicted, there's a huge increase in cases starting right after reopening the economy. Clearly it wasn't herd immunity that was suppressing cases. We are still a LONG way from herd immunity. But I know, the deaths aren't rising with the new cases, right! Wrong.  It just takes a while for them to get sick enough to die. These are all facts that you got very, very wrong. Of course, as has already been discussed, you are smarter than that. Where does that leave us? I will admit that's it's interesting that the US as a whole has seen a very moderated rise in deaths compared to the rise in cases.   There is still a rise in deaths that is starting though. There are a number of probable reasons for this being mild, but a new, weaker strain of virus is not among them, despite someone being willing to make that false claim. This would be pretty easy to track and no evidence has been shown. Far more likely explanations, in no particular order... 1) We have more experience in dealing with the sick patients, and despite symptoms being very similar to severe flu, we are beginning to understand that treating it like severe flu, simply doesn't work well. In short, it's not the flu! Respirators are no longer the go to treatment, waiting for ARDS symptoms to just get better. The ARDS symptoms have different underlying reasons than with the flu. 2) People are beginning to understand that waiting for this disease to get bad, leads to bad outcomes. They are most likely seeking medical help earlier in the illness than a few months ago. This is probably especially true not that the flu season is pretty well behind us, and if you have flu symptoms, people get checked out, rather than waiting to see if it's something worse than flu. 3) In many areas, people have taken to wearing masks in public. I know they do in my area. You may initially think that this won't have an effect on mortality if you get infected, but that is very likely wrong. A mask will almost certainly reduce the initial viral load a patient experiences. That means the body's defenses have a better chance of not getting overrun. Just like an air filter on an engine, it may not stop all dust and dirt from getting in, but less is certainly better. A poor filter is better than no filter. It's also been suggested that a lower viral load will likely mean there is less virus that gets deep into the lungs to cause the severe ARDS symptoms. 4) Simply not putting the infected into nursing homes, where the most vulnerable are housed is almost certainly going to have a positive result. An interesting note about my number 1... We will never be able to put solid numbers to this, but it's almost certain that "flattening the curve" means more than simply delaying when many people get infected. The longer we delay people getting infected, the better out treatments, and the better the outcomes. Flu treatments were failing us. Flattening the curve does in fact, translate to lives saved. Probably a lot of them. I'm still unclear if this is going to prove to be seasonal or not. If this really is the "off" season, then it's going to be a pretty bad second season for Covid. History with the Spanish Flu in 1918 showed how much worse the second year can be. It seems that we don't have any definitive answer on the seasonality of this, but I'm unaware of any consensus that it's not seasonal. It's likely that what we are now seeing is a virus spreading in sub-optimum conditions in a population that lacks any herd immunity. In short, if you think this thing is winding down, you are likely in for a rude awakening this winter. As a nation, we can be smart, and follow examples like S. Korea and hope for a fairly boring ride on season 2. Or we can choose to be a world leader in sickness and death, like Sweden has been. Sadly, we don't have national leaders that will lead us toward the smart choice. You certainly can't legislate that people act in a smart manner. We also have far too many leaders who are advocating that we act stupidly, and many of the masses will follow that leadership. Wearing protective gear in the face of a threat isn't a sign of rights being taken away as many have suggested. It's simply a smart thing to do, just as wearing a helmet on a motorcycle is a smart thing to do. It certainly doesn't have to mean that you support those who want to pass laws mandating that you wear a helmet though. Wise the •••• up! S2t_bama, it's nice to see someone posting in this thread with some common sense and understanding of the facts. BTW, I recently had the opportunity to talk to a guy, early 30's, lifts weights regularly, very health guy. He said he had it in early March and it absolutely kicked his ass! He couldn't even take care of himself for about 3 weeks. Coughed up blood numerous times. Couldn't stand on his feet for more than a few minutes at a time, and it took hours to recover from that effort. He's still dealing with chronic fatigue, and diminished lung function. They did not admit him to the hospital though, so his was what is categorized as a "mild" case. This thing attacks the body differently than the flu, and often has long lasting (probably permanent in many cases) effects. This is the side of the story that has been almost completely ignored. And Ratbuell is wrong in his claim that it's simply the Covid weakening the body, letting other diseases do their thing. This is the body being attacked by the Covid virus. It's not something you want to play around with, even if you are young an healthy. One last thing, the video series that Blake took a shit on earlier continues to provide lots of current information about what's going on. I still recommend it. He's down to just posting on Tuesday and Thursday nights though, as the rate of new findings is certainly slowing. Far better information than you will find in most of this thread. Good luck to my friends here, but I've found my life better for walking away from this place. | ||
| Gregtonn |
He's baaack. Be prepared for unending gloom and doom. Oh, and many more claims of "willful ignorance". G | ||
| Sifo |
I will add a couple more points. I know the official death counts get disbelieved by many. No doubt, there are cases of over counting. It's also clear that there has been documented under counting. It will never be perfect. You can however look up the data on excess deaths. They compile this data by the week of the year. It might surprise you how accurate, the number of predicted deaths can be for any given week. Usually, when there is a difference between what's expected, vs. what's experienced, there's an event that explains it. Same with Covid-19. The thing is, even when adjusting by the official number of Covid deaths, there has been a trend of excess deaths that isn't explained by anything other than Covid. The short of this is that it's almost a certainty that the official death count from Covid has been under counted. Has anyone bothered to notice that the estimated number of flu deaths got adjusted way down at the end of flu season? Yes, non-pharmaceutical interventions do work, despite what some here have claimed. Of course they do. We understand how viruses are spread. We have the ability to affect that spread, if we choose to do so. Last point. If you really want to keep your precious economy moving forward, and not take a hit from another forced shut down, wear a f^cking mask. It does help to stop the spread. You might even get credit for caring about your fellow human beings. They only cost a few bucks and are incredibly easy to use. There's really no excuse not to, other than that you simply don't give a shit of someone dies because of your actions. Frankly, those that make not wearing a mask some sort of political statement disgust me. It's just as bad as those who are using this as an excuse to curtail your rights. | ||
| Court |
Good to see those charts and the death rates falling like a rock. | ||
| Aesquire |
Sifo's right that flattening the curve is more than a delaying tactic. I missed any mention of herd immunity. That hasn't happened yet to a meaningful degree. | ||
| Macbuell |
3M out of 300M. Herd immunity is a long ways away. Told my wife tonight, be prepared for the long haul. This ain't going away anytime soon. | ||
| Ducbsa |
Regarding excess deaths, how many people have died because non-Covid cases have been kept out of hospitals? | ||
| Aesquire |
I'd guess that "my" Governor ( I didn't vote for anyone in his crime family, ever ) was personally responsible for more dead in nursing homes where he concentration camp focused the sick. While forbidding visits from relatives, so many never saw their parents alive again after his Command. Knowing your loved ones died alone on the orders of the daily ego/campaign show slut has caused great pain to far too many. But I could be wrong on absolute numbers. There's no one counting the dead from the shutdown in the "couldn't get the care that would save them" categories that I know. ( by all means post a reference ) Here's a cya spin story by known lying commie scum. Given the credibility of the Times, this attempt to exonerate the Governor really serves to prove that he and his minions "wrote" the report to excuse themselves from responsibility, which to any sane person is nigh absolute proof of guilt. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/nyregion/nursin g-homes-deaths-coronavirus.html | ||
| Ducbsa |
No citation, but FWIW, I have seen it mentioned. | ||
| H0gwash |
Glad to see your post. I wondered if you would post with the return of COVID. It is nice to know that some Republicans are dealing with reality and not ignoring it. (Message edited by h0gwash on July 10, 2020) | ||
| Ourdee |
Return? It hasn't went anywhere. Get to know it. It's not the monster it was spun as. | ||
| Aesquire |
It's entirely possible to be concerned about the very real problems of a deadly disease, and the violations of rights and power grab by certain Governors. There is little doubt that the lockdown and encouraging distance and hygiene have reduced the number and RATE of infections. There is a real, so far unanswered, question as to the value of the lockdown. Opinions can & will vary on that, depending on personal priority, even if there were reliable numbers to compare, and afaik, there aren't. Men of good will can disagree, without rancor, because of different things they consider more important. There is also no doubt that delaying, and hopefully flattening the peaks of infection rates, in an effort to keep from overwhelming the health care system, is going to delay and extend the disease at a lower rate... Until in time, a year, perhaps, Pooh's Breath is just another on the long list of "why they died" along with the seasonal flu, falling off ladders, and having evidence that a Clinton committed a felony. In a related note, I'm arguing with a buddy about masks... My attitude is that I wear one in a store to keep from upsetting the store clerks who have been ORDERED by the Emperor of the Imperial State to require mask use. The Emperor can kiss my shiny metal ass. But the clerks and small business owners can get ticketed out of business by the petty ego driven freedom hating criminal F%$&s currently in Power, and I prefer them to be able to keep living the American dream of hard work and profit. You gotta consider who you are actually upset with, eh? | ||
| Aesquire |
Oh, yeah, I also don't want to get sick, so I can keep shopping for my elderly mother who is at higher risk than I. | ||
| H0gwash |
I wouldn't characterize a virus as a monster. I joke that once antibody tests are reliable, we'll test the old man and he'll already have the antibodies, he just slept through it all. But until then I am respecting his wishes to avoid the bug and doing fairly simple sanitary practices as he is in the most vulnerable group and there is no vaccine yet. | ||
| Ourdee |
I have cheesecloth to use as a mask. If you aren't covering your eyes the mask is near worthless. Ever go through NBC training in the military? I check my breathing every day. Take my temperature multiple times. Wear gloves to touch what others touch and stay away from people. If I am sick, I stay home. I've been back into getting tests done that were scheduled prior to Pooh's Breath. And I didn't say you spun it as a monster either. (Message edited by ourdee on July 10, 2020) | ||
| Hootowl |
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| Ourdee |
13.8 years. At our current daily rate of infections that is how long it would take before everyone in the US gets it. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Assuming the "accepted" infection rate, sure. What about the Bay Area study and others like it, that said we were potentially looking at eighty TIMES the infected people, compared to what the models predicted? These models are so far off, we need to completely disregard them. They are wrong. They continue to be wrong. They have always been wrong. Their scientific value is zero. In the words of Agent K - "all your 'experience', as of this moment, means precisely, dick". Until we test every soul in the nation...we don't know. Until we test every soul in the nation, at least once a month...we REALLY don't know. No virus. (haven't had it) Active virus. (got it now) Virus antibodies. (had it before, but over it now) Those are the three blood-quality choices. Everyone falls into one of those categories. Until we can test everyone...speculation is scientifically worthless. | ||
| Tpehak |
Better be safe than sorry. | ||
| Ourdee |
Mine is simple math. Number of new cases per day, times 365, divided into number of population. No politics, no corrections, no nothing, just a quick picture of how small your chance is to get it this month. | ||
| Ourdee |
Better to live boldly than to live all shrunk up in a safe place. That is not life. | ||
| Aesquire |
Re: eyes My eyes seldom spray fluids in a manner that would infect others, plus tears tend to be fairly clean, virus speaking since they are a natural antiseptic you produce to reduce infection from stuff you literally run into. Not perfect since some jerk coughing in your face can deposit enough bugs to overwhelm the protection. ( & I'd feel free to need to disinfect my hands after complaining about his rudeness ) I wear glasses. I've got glasses with side shields. In a high virus area, like in an infected person's hospital room then goggles are a good idea. Gloves, too. Feel free to take additional precautions 100% safe is fantasy Even nurses using best protocols get sick. | ||
| Tpehak |
ATGATT, same is for the face masks. | ||
| Ourdee |
ATGATT, There is a problem with thinking gear will save you. It will not always save you. You want safe, don't ride. I only wear a mask to testing in the medical buildings where I have to to get serviced. The people that were testing my breathing capacity did not require a person having trouble breathing to wear a restrictive mask. That was a couple of weeks ago. I checked with my doctor's office today and one layer of cheesecloth counts as a mask there. | ||
| Aesquire |
It will not always save you. You want safe, don't leave the house, take a bath, ride a bike of any kind, fall in love, or dare to try...anything. Helmets are so they can have open casket viewing. Might save your life. Might not. Branch through the ribcage won't even notice my Joe Rocket Meteor jacket. Protective gear is A life saver, but nothing makes you immortal. I know A bit about safety harnesses... Parachutes, prone & supine hang gliding, rappeling, armor from David to... I kinda quit paying attention after ceramic impact plates. ( The math is too hard! ) The best seatbelts money can buy only save you until your own body fails internally as bad things tear under the G loads. ( or until they rip out of the rusty car body... That ain't pretty either ) A close buddy, nurse, caught H1N1 WITH full protective gear. He wasn't careless. Viruses are tiny. Again, and I've got a beard, so my real filter is just my own hair! ( and masks are great incentive to use lavender shampoo  ) The reason you wear gear is to improve your odds. Masks also have a social function. The store clerks don't worry if you're a Karen. It's camo, darn it! | ||
| Aesquire |
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| Aesquire |
I am NOT endorsing? Verifying the accuracy of? 'Cause I dunno. The editorial on Fauci. https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/07/boo k-banning-is-back.php https://amgreatness.com/2020/07/10/fauci-is-a-deep -state-fraud/ |
