| Author | Message | ||
     Aesquire |
Agreed. Would you feel ok with being in contact with someone you knew had the virus as long as both of you wore a homemade (or N95) mask? 5% of 5% of 10 million is still a whole lot Ok? Actually I'm trying to avoid contact with any infected people. And your comment shows how terribly at risk Nurses and other care pros are. No, I'm talking about masks at the Supermarket, and the office. It's a small help, but real, as it's not going to stop a virus particle in free flight. But it will keep other people's mucus to themselves. Masks are used in operating rooms for 2 main reasons. So the docs don't sneeze directly into your open body, and so if he hits a squirter it doesn't go into his mouth and nose. It's playing the odds. There's a reason in crowded Japan, masks are a common sight, all year, it helps. I've had to take the "gloves mask don't get fluids in your eyes" course every dang year for this whole century. They didn't used to bother with more than a sentence or 2 before AIDS changed health care. And, yeah, I made the decisions a LONG time ago, that... A. if I had to, to save a life, at the side of the road, I'd reach into another human's body to pinch a bleeder shut until the ambulance arrived, and guys with clamps and gear can take over, bare handed, unless I was already cut up. It's a risk. A gamble with life itself. I think it's worth it to save another. B. I do CPR chest compression only. No kiss of life anymore. The best data I have shows that rescue breathing is only useful in limited cases. And I pray I don't have to, but if you are trapped under water? Then I'll make a choice. ( WSI, Senior Lifeguard Instructor, Scuba & Mixture qualified, First Responder, St. Johns ) C. Pro lifeguard. Do you go in the water to save someone? Preferably, no. But if you can't reach with poles or ropes? Yeah, but only if you can do so without being killed. To that end, I trained, hard, to be Brutal in the water. My father ( US Navy Corpsman ) taught me how to half drown someone. To keep them from drowning 2 people. Risk, choice, responsibility. | ||
| Court |
Well stated. | ||
| Ourdee |
| ||
| Blake |
I think I've stated this before, but it bears repeating. My view is that we just cannot yet know what is causing the decline of the death rate since it could be due to a number of different factors or combinations thereof as follows: 0) General mitigation activity 1) Significant immunity and/or asymptomatic infections 2) Changing/warming weather 3) Significant decline of at-risk population 4) Sheltering of at-risk population 5) Declining virus lethality 6) New or improved treatments 7) Quarantining of carriers, symptomatic or not Any of the above may have a significant effect on death rate. The relative effects of some lend themselves to investigation and confirmation, others not so much. I think everyone agrees with that. So what is the argument about? Whether or not the cure at this point may be worse than the disease? | ||
| Blake |
Tom: I guess I don't communicate effectively. Let me rephrase what I had meant to say such that zero charity in interpretation is required to understand my intended point. If the bare meat shelves happened immediately after the popular news media commenced reporting the reduction in packing and processing capacity, it's likely that people saw that and went meat shopping to stock up. This is basic human nature, psychology 101. Do you deny it? Further clarification: By "popular news media" I mean ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, FOX News and the like, meaning the TV and internet and print news that most Americans routinely view on a day to day basis. I don't think very many people read or have even heard of foodbusinessnews.net, so an article there reporting on the loss of packing and processing capacity would not likely have much effect. | ||
| Tpehak |
Stay home order is going to be extended over May 4th at least up to mid of July here in Seattle. | ||
| Hootowl |
The tyson plants shutting down was on fox the other day, along with a warning from its president that the protein industry is in dire straits with millions of animals slaughtered with nowhere to process them. He said this was the reason the shelves were starting to empty. I’m sure that triggered some hoarding, but hoarding didn’t initiate the shortage. | ||
| Blake |
Given the fatality prone portion of the population is a relatively small portion of the total population, might it be worth trying to better understand the situation specifically concerning the Ro applicable for them?. If they are subject to a greater or lesser Ro compared to the population at large, then what affect on the death rate? What is the proportion of the at-risk population that have recovered, died, been found asymptomatic, or been found positive for anti-bodies? Why try to understand that? To get a handle on the reason(s) for the declining death rates here and in Europe. Thinking of the most extreme example, if 100% of the at-risk group fall into one of the aforementioned categories, then death rate would crash, yes? If it's 50%? | ||
| Crusty |
Well; at least it'll keep the Antifarts from having street riots downtown. Every dark cloud has a silver lining. Or somethin'. | ||
| Aesquire |
The Meat thing is both answers are correct. The farmers can't sell, so there will be a mild, but year long shortage, The damage is done, steaks will cost more. Beef and Pork take longer to raise than chickens or farmed fish. Recovery will be longer, too. Some local empty shelves are do to panic hoarding. My local mega-grocery, as of this morning, is stocking like crazy while things are crowded. They've gone from 24 hours to limited so they can clean and stock all night without interference from customers. They REALLY prefer to mostly stock at night, faster, easier, and now that they are closed, the shelf fillers don't need to protect themselves from customers. It's regimented like the Jet Li movie Hero. Tape lines on floor for spacing. Wait for permission to advance before the cashier. Belts sprayed and wiped between customers. It's common sense and vivid signalling. They want you to feel safe. And shop S-Mart! ( actually Wegmans ) And btw, I've seen multiple photos of reporters standing in front of empty shelves in stores being filmed, while the rest of the aisle, our of sight of the News Propaganda Permitted Vision, was fully stocked. Don't panic! Where's your towel? | ||
| Aesquire |
I've been trying to keep my elderly parents safe, because despite me being high risk, they are higher. I limit visits to friends, but still visit, I do wash more often and change shirts after returning home from stores. And sometimes from buddies homes with pets that demand attention. You explain to a Black Lab or tabby that you won't scratch them because Governor Newsome won't let humans outside and you are a credulous fool. Go ahead. Tell me what they said! And I still visit my friend now in hospice. I wash hands when I arrive, SOP, shot immune system. I did make fudge for her. In my Mom's kitchen. She's a Norse Avatar of Cleaning. She gets upset if she can't eat off the floor, and every item brought into the house is cleaned. Only that last is more now than before Coronapanic. Thank Loki she already was stocked and prepared to sterilize a Battleship, or she'd be sending me to raid like our Viking ancestors for Clorox wipes. If I could just get her to not watch news near continuously.... ( empty that DVR! ) | ||
| Aesquire |
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/04/29/delaying- herd-immunity-is-costing-lives/ No comment. | ||
| Sifo |
Tom: I guess I don't communicate effectively. Let me rephrase what I had meant to say such that zero charity in interpretation is required to understand my intended point. If the bare meat shelves happened immediately after the popular news media commenced reporting the reduction in packing and processing capacity, it's likely that people saw that and went meat shopping to stock up. This is basic human nature, psychology 101. Do you deny it? Further clarification: By "popular news media" I mean ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, FOX News and the like, meaning the TV and internet and print news that most Americans routinely view on a day to day basis. I don't think very many people read or have even heard of foodbusinessnews.net, so an article there reporting on the loss of packing and processing capacity would not likely have much effect. This will be my last post. I'm tired of Blake's calling me out by name with his made up bullshit. This has been widely reported for a while now. Granted NBC is a bit slow. ABC - April 18 - https://abc7chicago.com/hormel-foods-plant-shut-do wn-shutdown/6113103/ NBC - April 26 - https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/rochelle-foo ds-plant-closed-at-least-608-employees-tested-for- coronavirus/2262127/ CBS - April 23 - https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/04/23/coronavi rus-in-minnesota-hormel-giving-more-than-10m-in-bo nuses-to-food-plant-workers/ PBS - April 13 - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/virus-closes- some-meat-plants-raising-fears-of-shortages FOX - April 13 - https://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/meat-industry-w arns-shortages-plants-close-coronavirus | ||
| Blake |
Amazing. | ||
| Blake |
Tom, What would you prefer I use to call you in our discussions here? I prefer actual names. I use them with most folks here when engaging in discussion. Why does that irritate you? What should people call you? As for the links you offer: Three of those are local affiliates, not national broadcast or cable network news; one was just a few days ago, but regardless, not sure how that doesn't reinforce my point, that media attention spurs people to stock up and affect store supply. I guess you're digging in on the "immediately". It's a fair point, another poor choice of words when dealing with an uncharitable critic. If the concept I'm trying to communicate is lost on you, I don't know what to say. The combativeness has overcome decades of camaraderie here. What a shame. I'll miss all your excellent political memes and other such fun stuff. No idea why you've become so hostile here. Life is too short. Something else bothering you? Anyone here called you stupid or dishonest? (Message edited by blake on April 30, 2020) | ||
| Reindog |
Get a room you two. Badweb likes you both. | ||
| Ducbsa |
With the elective surgeries being delayed, there must be a beneficial side effect on the potential 99k deaths from hospital infections? https://patientcarelink.org/improving-patient-care /healthcare-acquired-infections-hais/ | ||
| Court |
How would you feel about elective surgery, like a hip replacement, at this point? | ||
| Ducbsa |
The amount of hip pain you are in makes the elective/non-elective decision very personal. If I was in enough pain, I'd do it in a heartbeat. The hospitals are surely even more germ-vigilant than ever now. The 99k deaths is a shocker, but like with Covid, what is the denominator of how many "patients get while receiving treatment for medical or surgical conditions." The odds were favorable enough in December, shouldn't be too bad now. | ||
| Hootowl |
Ironically, it’s the cleaning that creates the superbugs like mrsa in hospitals. If the disinfectant and/or sterilization method does not kill everything, the stuff that survives becomes resistant to that method. Mrsa is commonly contracted via surgical instruments that were supposedly sterilized. Sterilization doesn’t kill 100 percent of pathogens, it’s something like 99.999 percent. That still leaves a few. When those few are resistant to antibiotics, you get a nearly untreatable infection. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Maybe I'm not a good person to contribute to this, but I've had my share of medical pain and procedures, and have quite a high pain tolerance. If it were me? And it were elective? (i.e. not life-threatening)...you can't PAY me to go near a hospital right now. Just like you can never pay me to get on a cruise ship. It's just common sense, as far as I'm concerned. I take reasonable precautions when I ride - I gear up, I'm vigilant, and I keep my bikes in top shape. I mitigate as much risk as I can. If I don't need a procedure to save my life? It's going to wait. Not only to mitigate MY risk, but also to allow resources to be allotted where they're needed - working with people who ARE in life-or-death situations. And I've told my 83 year old mother the same thing. She's an ex-PT with a (late) surgeon father and a (late) surgeon brother, so she knows the difference between "this hurts" and "this could kill me". She's taking it easy, staying off the tennis courts, staying out of the Cathedral, walking more, cooking more, and keeping the local winery in business. She had her annual cancer checkup last week at her doc's private office, but other than that...she's staying the hell home, moving furniture around, cleaning windows, and taking pictures of ducks and egrets. Kinda like Court - taking advantage of a Florida gated community for as much outdoor exercise as possible. | ||
| Tpehak |
Ducks spread coronavirus too. | ||
| Crusty |
Yeah; but only between valve adjustments. Those Desmo valve adjustments are both time consuming and expensive. | ||
| Crusty |
Covid19 Social Distancing Motorbike Not sure how it works with the passenger downwind?????????????  | ||
| Hootowl |
Well, I screwed up. Ate too much Indian food for lunch, and likely won’t be able to stomach dinner. And yes, I tipped well, over 100%. We were their sole customers. | ||
| Tpehak |
If you tip over 100% it is not tip anymore, it is donation. | ||
| Court |
It’s also kind and considerate. There is a significant portion of America that has been, through no fault of their own, tossed into a very difficult predicament. Good on you for being thoughtful. | ||
| Hootowl |
Donation? Possibly. I go there at least once a week for lunch, normally. This was their first dine-in day since the wuhan thing. It is my favorite restaurant and I don’t want them to fold. It was a selfish act, really. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Interesting situation here in Yavapai County; as of this afternoon we have 2 deaths attributed to the Corona Virus and 6 suicides attributed to loss of jobs or businesses.  G | ||
| Hootowl |
 |
