| Author | Message | ||
     Fb1 |
Squids: Well, crap. I see what you did there, Fb. Enlighten me, please?  It's not a trick question, and there's no agenda. A close acquaintance of mine, who seems pretty proud to identify as hard left, the other day called me hard right. We had been discussing politics at the time. I disagreed, and stated my belief that my political views are, indeed, center. At this, he looked at me like I had three eyeballs. I asked him: "In your opinion, were our nation's Founders hard right, or center?" "Center," was his quick reply. I said, "Well, that makes me center, too, as my overall political beliefs mesh nicely with those of our Founders." I'm not trying to trap or trick you; it's an honest question. I appreciate that we can discuss politics with each other without e-fighting. [O]ur Founders worked to write one of the best documents ever written. Agree 100%. | ||
| Fb1 |
PS: You're a John McCain fan? | ||
| Aesquire |
Radical libertarian. | ||
| Ourdee |
Did I post anything about Ivermectin. It was on my mind earlier today. https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/local-doctor-t ries-new-coronavirus-drug-treatment/2219465/ | ||
| Ratbuell |
}[O]ur Founders worked to write one of the best documents ever written. ...but it doesn't work, if we dismantle it. Every word, is vital to its success. Today, one side wants to dissect it, and take out the parts they don't like, and simply disobey or ignore other parts as they see fit. And one side wants to adhere to a strict interpretation of those powerful words and ideas, which have served this nation - and this world - extremely well for over 200 years. | ||
| Sifo |
Just in case someone cares to be informed on what's going on. There is new stuff going on pretty much daily. | ||
| Whisperstealth |
RD, I am very curious about the Ivermectin treatment. I've been giving it to my dogs for a decade to prevent heartworms. It is readily available at most farm stores. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Sorry. The video talks about six (that would be half a dozen - SIX) decedents from around the world - out of over 125,000 dead - who show clotting damage in their autopsies. Six people. Yeah, no sensationalism there. My coworker has more people than that who live in her HOUSE, and this guy is talking about a global pandemic. woo. hoo. 4:45 of my life I'll never get back. I stopped watching. But by all means, feel free to keep spreading the fear. | ||
| Hootowl |
So, we’re borrowing money from China so that we can give money to China? https://www.foxnews.com/media/gaetz-end-nih-grant- wuhan-virology-lab | ||
| Ourdee |
I believe the doctor expressed that it must be given prior to SpO2 levels being below 50. In another report it was claimed to kill the virus in 48 hours. Please, do not raid the veterinary meds. It is available in pharmacies for humans. It has been used for lice, ringworms, and parasites that cause Robles disease in humans. | ||
| Aesquire |
PLEASE... For any of these treatments please,please, show the article to your doctor, and get it under some medical treatment plan she gives you so that she can inform you and be aware of potential side effects and interactions with other meds or conditions. Be aware you are volunteering to be an experimental subject. The odds are apparently good even if you get Covid-19, which seems to be at least as dangerous as influenza, that it won't be fatal. It can be crippling! That isn't mentioned much on Panic Exploitation TV. But it would suck if you took a drug that might save you, or might not, and the drug ruined your kidneys, for a horrid example. I'm not recommending to or not to take the risks. I'm pleading you to understand them before taking any medication. Nothing is risk free. Myself, personally, am one of thousands who were temporarily crippled by simvistatin. I'm recovered, as far as the pain goes, but still haven't recovered the lost muscle mass, although I hope to eventually. That doesn't mean it's a bad drug. It's just not compatible with my genetics. I also hate cilantro. It tastes like old soap. Human variation is real. Don't bother telling me how delicious it is. For you, for my father, yep, but not for me, or my sister and mother. Hang in there. | ||
| Ourdee |
Cilantro always smelled weird to me. Sometimes it tastes weird to me. But I feel so sorry for you because in the right stuff for me it is amazing. Is there some thing you like the taste of that others say tastes like crap? | ||
| Whisperstealth |
Thanks for the advice fella's. I was in no way planning on self medicating. If I were to get sick I would talk to my doctor about the treatment, but I'm not going to dose myself. Sorry I didn't make that clear. I was only trying to say that Ivermectin is widely available already, not something that has to be made/built from scratch as it were. | ||
| Aesquire |
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/ano ther-dishonest-smear-by-the-washington-post.php Interesting news and a study... But you won't hear it from lefty lying scum. The cilantro thing is genetic. Like the test strips they use to demonstrate genetic variability, most taste nothing, some, & I'm one, taste a strong sweet flavor. ( not pleasant, but not horrible ) Runs in families, in my case, the matrilineal side. Tasting weird? Like old soap? Or just not a great herbal thing? Do I like something others don't? Probably. That's just preference. The cilantro thing... https://delishably.com/spices-seasonings/Why-Does- Cilantro-Taste-Bad | ||
| Aesquire |
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/why -is-new-york-hardest-hit.php There's a simple reason plagues hit cities hardest. Population density. https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/we- never-needed-to-flatten-the-curve.php I don't think I agree with the above. Some places, like NYC and clusters like the ones caused by the Business meeting mentioned before ( I forgot the company ) can overwhelm local resources. You expect this in big cities ( if you ever studied history & paid attention to plagues ) but it can, does, will, and has happened in rural communities that don't have enough facilities. Locally, the smaller, rural, hospitals are isolating & transferring Pooh's Breath cases to the big teaching hospital to try and prevent overloaded care units. They'd do the same with a big traffic pile up, or industrial accident. My current GUESS is we can soon ease up on restrictions on travel & work, but we WILL have a spike in illnesses, because Social Distancing, aka common freaking sense, should continue and the stupid & those who believe CNN ( redundant, but there are smart, indoctrinated fools ) will exchange bodily fluids and quit washing hands. ( If they even are, now ) many people in Japan, with a high population density, wear masks and gloves on public transport and in crowds, long before this pandemic. It's a cultural thing at this point in stark contrast to inner mainland China. I'm not judging here, this isn't racist. From friends who've lived there, and the Hong Kong press, the former British colony coastal Chinese think the interior people careless and dirty. You know, their version of rednecks. Regional AND cultural differences. Not exactly the same as Coastal Big City Americans and "flyover country", but close enough to get the idea. The difference between mainland interior/coastal folk in China is really old... Centuries of isolation under Imperial rule, then the last 75 years of Communist Party rule, means that away from the port cities, it's only improved from literally pre-Roman conditions a bit since Nixon opened the gates to Western technology transfer and business. And most of that including the exploitation of cheap labor, is in the coastal and Capitol regions, where the higher education and "sophistication" levels already were. Western & Northern China, close to Tibet & western Mongolia, aren't so much like outside Atlanta ( red neck reputations, deserved or not ) as figurative time travel. Think "you never heard of it & can't pronounce it" central Africa. Not so bad as never saw a white guy Pacific islander... Except maybe for hating the Japanese soldiers that invaded before and during WW2. ( and the Opium war didn't endear the coastal Chinese to European and American colonial types, either ) | ||
| Ratbuell |
I have to say, I agree with https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/we- never-needed-to-flatten-the-curve.php wholeheartedly. Look at the numbers. And, to quote the article...As usual, the numbers need a context. We CERTAINLY aren't getting any context from the MSM Chicken Little's... The Centers for Disease Control estimates, if you do the arithmetic, that as of April 4 around 41,250 people were hospitalized due to COVID-19, which seems too low. The COVID Tracking Project pegs it at 62,673 as of April 13. Does that sound like a lot of hospitalizations? As usual, the numbers need a context. During last year’s flu season, according to the CDC, 490,561 people in the U.S. were hospitalized due to the seasonal flu virus. The prior year, it was 810,000 flu hospitalizations As I have been asking all along - is this really worth crashing Western Civilization over? Because that's what we've done, both financially, and culturally inasfar as personal freedoms go. We have surrendered our personal liberties without question and without argument. For....? | ||
| Fb1 |
As I have been asking all along - is this really worth crashing Western Civilization over? Because that's what we've done, both financially, and culturally inasfar as personal freedoms go. We have surrendered our personal liberties without question and without argument. For....? It is, in large part, an attempt to avoid justice. It's a political nuke. Target? The Oval Office. We - the right and the left, (or, good vs. evil) - are presently engaged in hand-to-hand combat for control of this nation. Why? To avoid justice. The good wants to see justice done. The evil, of course, does not. When President Trump says he's draining the swamp, he means it. Unlike every other president since President Reagan, we have a president who actually means what he says, instead of simply telling us what we want to hear. The swamp dwellers are desperate. There was significant legal movement in DC last week related to the draining. I doubt most people even noticed; it's one of the byproducts of the heavily-controlled media narrative that we - unless we dig - are merely mushrooms when it comes to the news: fed shit and kept in the dark. (If y'all don't know what this "significant legal movement in DC last week" was, might I suggest you expand your horizons news-wise?) Anyway, the "for" is easy: Avoid justice. How far will [they] go to avoid justice? All the way, if necessary. The last bit ^ is just an educated guess, but the bad guys (and gals) are quite unlikely to "find God" at this stage of the game. If you're politically powerful, and have committed terrible atrocities (while masquerading as a public servant), how far would you go to avoid justice? Would you nuke our economy? Would you............? Food for thought. | ||
| Ourdee |
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/ano ther-dishonest-smear-by-the-washington-post.php Aesquire posted above and it is a good quick read. Often when someone contributes often, others will just scan over their contributions. I found some great stuff in this article to include a Governor that got it right for their State, and some meat anti-shortage news. | ||
| Fb1 |
Here's some of the justice the bad guys (and gals) are trying so desperately to avoid. Do y'all prefer to read your news? Here's a brilliant new piece from Sundance, one of the best investigative journalists we have in this country. This piece, although lengthy, is easy to read and digest, and has multiple citations for fact-checking and further study. The bad guys (and gals) have committed some terrible sins, in my opinion. This piece outlines some of those sins.
Source, more: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/04/15/a- common-misconception-about-the-origin-of-spygate-p olitical-surveillance-in-the-era-of-president-obam a/ | ||
| Ratbuell |
That is a good article. I may have to move to North Dakota. "Personal Responsibility". That trumps "governmental control" in my book, any day. I posted - I think in the social resisting thread - that my concern about all of this overreach is, how do we rein it back in? When? What will it take to get back to American Freedom, and personal liberties? Who will decide when it's time, and how will we ensure that happens? | ||
| Ratbuell |
My post from the social resisting thread: Brad - the 2A isn't to kill the virus (unlike what many MSM talking heads and politicos would have you believe). The 2A (in the immediate sense) is to protect oneself from bad actors in society who are taking advantage of the fact that: 1. police forces are diminished, and those who are on duty are restricted as to what they are allowed to do 2. stores and businesses are shuttered and unattended, inviting vandalism and theft 3. people are off work. bored. broke. and restless - none of which are good on their own, and all of which are worse in concert. 4. criminals are being released from prison to "prevent the spread". combine freed criminals, with points 1, 2, and 3. A 9mm isn't going to shoot the corona out of someone...but if somebody comes after me, or my property, or my loved ones, I have every right to defend myself as I see fit. As do you. And with diminished law enforcement, and limited response capabilities for the LEOs who are still on duty...personal safety falls more on the person than ever before. Quite literally, there is no backup. Only cleanup. Cops will get there after the deed is done, to catalog and identify the players, reasons, and losses. Are you prepared? If you don't want to prepare, that's fine. It's your right to make your own decision for yourself. But don't you DARE tell me that I cannot prepare as I see fit. THAT is the crux of the 2A debate, not "it can't stop the virus, so it's not essential". And a lot of people understand that. NICS inquiries were up four HUNDRED percent for the month of March, compared to a year ago. It isn't about stopping a virus - it's about protecting you and your loved ones from things you CAN stop, and random governor's decisions about what can and can't be done cannot be allowed to take that away. The fear for our constitutional rights is, now that the power-hungry have had a taste, it'll be harder and harder to rein it back in. For example - why, on God's green earth, were people threatened with ARREST for going to Easter mass, outdoors, in their own cars (with plenty of social distancing as a result)? There's another constitutional right, violated - freedom of religion. Can't have God, if you want Government to be the state religion. What makes that OK? States telling people (as noted above) that you cannot paraglide (solo). Or fish (solo). States telling people they cannot cycle, or exercise outdoors (solo). No caveat "without social distancing"....just a flat "you cannot do that". Police chasing a SOLO SURFER IN THE OCEAN. What the hell is that? Simple. Power. Many in office are addicted to it, and this is allowing them to cross a line, flex their muscles, and take away OUR RIGHTS. I'm sure you are familiar with the concept of "death by a thousand cuts" - well...here you go. No biking. No surfing. No church. No guns. You might not care about all of them - but I bet you damned sure care about SOME of them. What's next to go? When do these "temporary, emergency" rules cease to exist? Who decides? Are we sure it'll stop? Or will it turn into "get into the boxcar, citizen"? And, therein lies the TRUE concept behind the 2A. The Founders didn't write it so we could defend ourselves against carjackings, or so we could hunt - they wrote it so we, the citizens, as individuals, could fight against a tyrannical government. Like they did with the British. Like the meme says - "Washington and his troops didn't stop the British with free speech. They shot them." When is enough? Like I said - you may not care about my right to own and carry a gun, but I bet you care about your ability to worship as you see fit. Both are equally important, and both are equally powerful. And if we lose one, who's to say the other won't be next? If we give up ANY rights, it opens the door for them to take another. And another. And another. As I said - when is enough? Where's the line? Who decides? | ||
| Sifo |
Sorry. The video talks about six (that would be half a dozen - SIX) decedents from around the world - out of over 125,000 dead - who show clotting damage in their autopsies. Six people. Yeah, no sensationalism there. My coworker has more people than that who live in her HOUSE, and this guy is talking about a global pandemic. woo. hoo. 4:45 of my life I'll never get back. I stopped watching. But by all means, feel free to keep spreading the fear. Yep, a study of 6 autopsies. Typical WuFlu deaths. It's how you start to understand what it does to the body. Specifically, how it destroys the lungs. Critical information for treatment of the virus. Also worth noting, that many weeks ago, it was pointed out that young healthy, "asymptomatic" people were being found to have serious lung problems that will certainly be debilitating for their entire life. He covered a lot more that that though. He got into the economics of it later in the video, something that you seem focused on. I have to say, I agree with https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/we- never-needed-to-flatten-the-curve.php wholeheartedly. Comparing this to the flu season is comparing apples to oranges in a huge way. First off, it's beginning to look like this may not be seasonal. Flu is winding down this time of year. We just hit a new record number of deaths in a day from this virus yesterday. Next, this didn't even get started until around the peak of flu season. So assuming this is seasonal, it only had a couple of cases in the US during what would be peak season for seasonal viruses. Next year won't be like that. Of course if it's not seasonal, then what stops it? Seriously, what stops it? The next thing is that he is comparing a typical flu season, i.e., virtually no mitigation, to the spread of this virus with our country being largely shut down. I simply can't imagine a more apples to oranges comparison. That, IMO, is borderline evil, or simply grossly ignorant, writing that sort of thing. It is completely misleading. I guess he missed the stories of the health care workers and what they have been dealing with in NYC. I guess he missed where they were storing bodies in refrigeration trucks because the morgues were full. I do understand the economic impact of the mitigation strategies. I would be willing to discuss them if you like. To claim that the numbers we see now would be the same had mitigation strategies not been put in place is simply dishonest though. Our leaders right not, like them or not, are having to make decisions that are weighing how much peoples lives are worth. I hate to consider that there are those that would have the US be just as dishonest, and even less compassionate about human life than communist China. | ||
| Ratbuell |
So, much like the other numbers we're seeing in the press these days (death numbers, but when's the last time you saw ANY "recovered" numbers?? Where's the perspective?), we're supposed to take the word of half a dozen autopsies as gospel for what this virus does to everyone? The USA has lost many, MANY more than six people. What of THOSE autopsies? Where's the perspective? Ditto the people taking HCQ - even though the FDA has now approved it for use against COVID, we're still being told by the parroting press that it is "scientifically unproven"...but where's the stories about the people it has helped/saved? Where's the perspective? You say "flu season with no mitigation" - so...flu shots are "no mitigation"? Something we have medicine for, and HAVE had medicine for, for decades, puts between ten and twenty TIMES the people in the hospital, but you discount it? I've asked before, and I'll ask again - given these numbers, given this perspective...why don't we shut down society every flu season? Seriously. It puts twenty TIMES the people in a hospital, even WITH medication available. Think on that. Twenty TIMES. Even without intervention, do you truly believe COVID would have put that many people in a hospital? And, even if it did...that would make it a numbers match for the annual flu - which, again, we don't shut down society for. You ask "what stops it" - it's called MEDICINE. HCQ shows promise, both as treatment and prevention, in every test group to date. You act like the virus will keep running ripshod over the planet, and the human race and medical community will remain static and not make any sort of advancement whatsoever. My concern is, now that we've given over all our civil liberties...what's to stop government from taking them again, next season, even if we do have medicine available for treatment? YOU may be fine with getting in the boxcar when the government tells you to...but I'm not much for trains. So...let's discuss the economic impact, shall we? Businesses shuttered. Entire districts abandoned. People out of work. No money for insurance (affects health). No money for rent, or food (affects public safety - desperate people act dangerously). People WITH money and jobs, will be the exception - they will be targets. They will not be able to procure daily life as we know it - no restaurants to eat out in, no concerts to go to for entertainment, no means for relaxation, no cars to buy, no food to buy. The government will (already has) step in to "provide" for citizens - but there are strings. You WILL wear a mask. You will NOT go to work. You will NOT go to church. You WILL comply. If you don't comply, we are already urging your friends and coworkers to report you to us so we can come and "re-educate" you (seriously, this is already happening - "call 911 if you see someone without a mask and we'll come get them"). Manufacturing will cease because we have destroyed the supply chains. Eventually we may get some of it back - auto manufacturing might come on-line once steel plants are back on line, and plastic plants are on line...but only if government "allows" it because they have restricted every aspect of our life right now. Food production is regulated by the government now, due to "worker protection plans" (i.e. can't have that many people in one area for 'safety'). Some areas (mayors mostly at this point, but who says it won't spread?) are limiting what types of food may be displayed for sale. The government (portions of it, anyway) is burying pork in any "public assistance" bill that they can get their hands on - millions of dollars for Arts centers, clauses that will eliminate semiautomatic weapons from the general market, and lines that establish national "red flag" laws. They can't get this stuff voted on, so they sneak it in the back door of all this "public safety" legislation. This has ceased to be about safety, if it ever was. This is about POWER, plain and simple. | ||
| Sifo |
So, much like the other numbers we're seeing in the press these days (death numbers, but when's the last time you saw ANY "recovered" numbers?? Where's the perspective?), we're supposed to take the word of half a dozen autopsies as gospel for what this virus does to everyone? Why do you expect metrics on this to be different than other diseases? When do we discuss how many people recover from the flu? The USA has lost many, MANY more than six people. What of THOSE autopsies? Where's the perspective? This was a small study. You have to start somewhere. It's good for physicians to have some understanding of what is happening in the living tissues they are trying to treat. They can't see this stuff in living patients. It's important data. While a large study would be nice, it would also delay information needlessly. Sometimes you just need to be pragmatic. Ditto the people taking HCQ - even though the FDA has now approved it for use against COVID, we're still being told by the parroting press that it is "scientifically unproven"...but where's the stories about the people it has helped/saved? Where's the perspective? It is not scientifically unproven. Like the study of 6 autopsies, they have done small, uncontrolled studies. They show hope for success. It's a start. Better studies are being done, but take a long time. HCQ can't be tolerated by all patients either. One of the big problems is that HCQ causes problems with some of the health factors that make people high risk for the WuFlu. Where are the stories of it's success? Where have you heard of the success of this treatment? You say "flu season with no mitigation" - so...flu shots are "no mitigation"? Something we have medicine for, and HAVE had medicine for, for decades, puts between ten and twenty TIMES the people in the hospital, but you discount it? Think on that. Twenty TIMES. No, flue shots are NOT mitigation. They are prevention. Mitigation is what is done when prevention has failed. I discount what? The flu? Not at all. But it's less deadly than the WuFlu and isn't as easily transmitted. It's simply a lesser threat. I've asked before, and I'll ask again - given these numbers, given this perspective...why don't we shut down society every flu season? Seriously. It puts twenty TIMES the people in a hospital, even WITH medication available. For starters, you again are comparing a full flu season to something that may or may not be seasonal, but just got started about the time that flu season is easing up. You keep harping on the need for complete data, but are unwilling to accept that this will never be a complete WuFlu season, if it proves to even be seasonal. So your 20x hospitalizations is simply a known incorrect statistic. Since you keep repeating the question, I'll repeat the answer. It's a known incorrect statistic. Even so, the flu has a much lower CFR. That is a known statistic at this point. I know you don't like the CFR statistic, but it's what epidemiologist use. The flu also doesn't typically cause life long health problems for those that recover from it. WuFlu seems to do that to a notable percentage. We do need better data on that. Even without intervention, do you truly believe COVID would have put that many people in a hospital? And, even if it did...that would make it a numbers match for the annual flu - which, again, we don't shut down society for. That's one of the difficult things, we can never know for certain. It sure looks like it would have killed millions though. Do you really believe that the mitigation measures that have been taken around the world have had no impact? I would point to NYC, who told people to go out and enjoy the Chinese New Year, and St. Patrick's day. Suddenly they were in crisis mode right after that. I don't think that's a coincidence. One more, very important thing about the faulty hospitalization statistics you are currently pushing. Hospitalizations from the flu normally tie up a bed for a day or two. The WuFlu has people hospitalized for weeks or months. On top of that WuFlu patients need far more care during that time compared to a flu patient. In short, WuFlu hospitalizations are far more resource intensive, for far longer than flu hospitalizations. So even using your faulty 20:1 hospitalization ratio, which virus will put more strain on the health care system? Do you think the stories from medical professionals in NYC are made up? You ask "what stops it" - it's called MEDICINE. HCQ shows promise, both as treatment and prevention, in every test group to date. You act like the virus will keep running ripshod over the planet, and the human race and medical community will remain static and not make any sort of advancement whatsoever. Again, not proven and not suitable for all. BTW, the studies I've seen to date have involved otherwise health young people who are at minimal risk to start with. Promising results, but gives little hope for those with the highest risk from WuFlu. My concern is, now that we've given over all our civil liberties...what's to stop government from taking them again, next season, even if we do have medicine available for treatment? YOU may be fine with getting in the boxcar when the government tells you to...but I'm not much for trains. I've said little about this aspect. What you posted to Brad the other day on the other thread was pretty spot on. We can't let government use this to take our rights in the long term. In the middle of a crisis, we do need to find a balance. I'm glad Trump has let the state governments do their thing, and not try to impose a one size fits all approach across the nation. Michigan has done a one size fits all approach for the entire state. That make no sense to me. Detroit is a large metropolitan area with an international border. I'm in a rural county with only 4 cases so far. I actually broke the law and met with family a few miles away for Easter. I've also seen people breaking the law, fishing out on the bay in a boat with a motor. Our governor actually threatened the licenses of physicians who used HCQ to treat WuFlu patients. I see many things that are just stupid going on. So...let's discuss the economic impact, shall we? Businesses shuttered. Entire districts abandoned. People out of work. No money for insurance (affects health). No money for rent, or food (affects public safety - desperate people act dangerously). People WITH money and jobs, will be the exception - they will be targets. They will not be able to procure daily life as we know it - no restaurants to eat out in, no concerts to go to for entertainment, no means for relaxation, no cars to buy, no food to buy. The government will (already has) step in to "provide" for citizens - but there are strings. You WILL wear a mask. You will NOT go to work. You will NOT go to church. You WILL comply. If you don't comply, we are already urging your friends and coworkers to report you to us so we can come and "re-educate" you (seriously, this is already happening - "call 911 if you see someone without a mask and we'll come get them"). Manufacturing will cease because we have destroyed the supply chains. Eventually we may get some of it back - auto manufacturing might come on-line once steel plants are back on line, and plastic plants are on line...but only if government "allows" it because they have restricted every aspect of our life right now. Food production is regulated by the government now, due to "worker protection plans" (i.e. can't have that many people in one area for 'safety'). Some areas (mayors mostly at this point, but who says it won't spread?) are limiting what types of food may be displayed for sale. The government (portions of it, anyway) is burying pork in any "public assistance" bill that they can get their hands on - millions of dollars for Arts centers, clauses that will eliminate semiautomatic weapons from the general market, and lines that establish national "red flag" laws. They can't get this stuff voted on, so they sneak it in the back door of all this "public safety" legislation. This has ceased to be about safety, if it ever was. This is about POWER, plain and simple. I pretty much agree with you on that. It's on the reality of the disease that we disagree, and you have shown you don't want to accept the bad side of that. It's natural, because it does force you to reevaluate the correct balance on the economic impact. The thing is though, if we did nothing, the economic impact would also be crippling as people fail to show up to work because they are too ill, or afraid to report to work. There is no hiding from a pandemic. | ||
| Aesquire |
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/the -wuhan-coronavirus-in-germany-part-two.php It will be interesting if Germany has a big increase in coming weeks. We will then see more about how Pooh's Breath spreads. And what the optimal strategies are. | ||
| Hughlysses |
New video from Dr. Oz discussing results of 1000 person HCQ study with Dr. Didier Raoult of France. It’s hard to follow the discussion, but I believe the bottom line is they had 1/3 of the deaths using this treatment regimen compared to other treatments. He again reiterates that the potential side effects of HCQ are being vastly overblown in the media. | ||
| Sifo |
Weeks ago I saw something anecdotal about Germany's reporting. I believe it had to do with deaths, but I'm not sure at this point. It was a health care worker who claimed to have been involved in care of patients that never showed up in Germany's official stats though. She knew this for sure because the official stats showed zero deaths at her hospital, even though she knew otherwise. I have no idea if this was a wide spread thing, or if the numbers got put in the wrong column, or what. There is a possibility that Germany, like some other countries have not been forthcoming with numbers that match reality. I know the numbers for Germany were considered suspect, long ago, in the videos that people seem intent on ignoring. | ||
| Ratbuell |
This was a small study. You have to start somewhere. It's good for physicians to have some understanding of what is happening in the living tissues they are trying to treat. They can't see this stuff in living patients. It's important data. While a large study would be nice, it would also delay information needlessly. Sometimes you just need to be pragmatic. Ditto the people taking HCQ - even though the FDA has now approved it for use against COVID, we're still being told by the parroting press that it is "scientifically unproven"...but where's the stories about the people it has helped/saved? Where's the perspective? It is not scientifically unproven. Like the study of 6 autopsies, they have done small, uncontrolled studies. They show hope for success. It's a start. Better studies are being done, but take a long time. HCQ can't be tolerated by all patients either. One of the big problems is that HCQ causes problems with some of the health factors that make people high risk for the WuFlu. Where are the stories of it's success? Where have you heard of the success of this treatment? Thank you. You have just made my point for me. Take as Gospel, a small study of six bodies...but discount medicinal results of less-small studies, because they aren't "clinically accurate". In your own words - It's important data. While a large study would be nice, it would also delay information needlessly. Sometimes you just need to be pragmatic. We hear ALL ABOUT the "small studies" of people who die...but we don't hear about the small studies of people who live, who are treated, and who improve and survive. And when we do...all we hear is the slant that "this is not safe" and "this is not blind-study-tested and process-approved". Nevermind the percentages of people who - while being given a "non-proven" medicine - are healing and improving. It's important data. While a large study would be nice, it would also delay information needlessly. Sometimes you just need to be pragmatic. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/detroit-dem-says- trumps-touting-of-hydroxychloroquine-helped-save-h er-life Whitsett began taking the drug in combination with antibiotics on March 31 and said she started receiving relief in "less than two hours."\black But the MSM will never pick that one up, because it compliments our President. https://www.npr.org/2020/04/10/830348837/covid-19- patients-given-unproven-drug-in-texas-nursing-home -garnering-criticism For example. You can smell the slant in this one, which completely glosses over the data that shows }"To be clear, no one is worse than when they started," he said emphatically. "From my perspective, it's irresponsible to sit back and do nothing. The alternative would have been much much worse." That sounds like EXACTLY the same wording you - and others - are using to justify a similarly-untested control of society through shutdowns, social distancing, and other restraints. So, why is your way (state controls, shutdowns, etc) OK to do, but trying actual MEDICINE, is not OK? As for side effects, everyone in the media is conveniently forgetting a key phrase: Because HCQ has been used for over half a century, its side effects have been well-documented. Most notably, use, especially long-term use, has been associated with an increased risk of retinopathy, or damage to the retina. Some recent studies have also indicated that it may cause toxic side effects in patients taking other common drugs, such as metformin. That's the potential side-effects for LONG TERM USE of the medicine - which, by all indications, will not be needed in this instance. Most of these studies are shorter than 1 week, and show positive results. How about the long-term side effects on society, from mass-shutdowns? I don't recall being given a choice as to whether I was OK with those side effects...were you? Medicine, however, you can decline. Doctors are required to inform their patients, who then have the right to decline treatment - and a doctor cannot force a patient to accept a treatment. Besides, I don't think I've seen a single ad on TV for a single medication, that doesn't spout 'fine print' about side effects, or potential interaction problems. So, why is everyone fighting this so hard? Easy. It could potentially end the terror, and remove power from the power-hungry. https://amgreatness.com/2020/04/14/reason-emergenc ies-and-self-government/ On April 8, Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, was asked about his agency’s guidance for classifying the relationship of COVID-19 infections to deaths, specifically: “In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID-19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID-19 on a death certificate as ‘probable’ or ‘presumed.’” The question proceeded from the fact that, as the number of deaths attributed to the Chinese coronavirus has risen, the number of deaths normally attributed to causes such as influenza, pneumonia, heart failure and complications from diabetes has declined significantly. Fauci was asked to explain why. Since the vast majority of serious COVID-19 cases occur in people with precisely such conditions, is it not possible that the high count of COVID-19 deaths is in part an artifact of CDC’s guidance? The integrity of the numbers regarding infections and deaths is of the highest importance because these numbers are the basis on which Fauci, followed by model makers, followed by politicians, have estimated COVID-19’s lethality. And that estimate is the basis on which the state of emergency has been imposed, which is revolutionizing millions of lives. Besides, these estimates are diverging from reality ever farther with each passing day. | ||
| Slaughter |
A buddy's nurse-wife had breast cancer last year, double mastectomy, chemo and just a couple months ago had reconstruction surgery. Today she flies from LAX to SFO to report for duty where her nursing skills are desperately needed. Yeah, we're all sitting in the cheap seats but the medicos are the ones taking the hits and dying at a far higher rate than the population at large. He sent me this image that was posted online by the artist 3 days ago that sums this up. I contacted the original artist and obtained permission to share in any context honoring the health care professionals who KNOW what they're getting into. https://www.instagram.com/mjhiblenart/?  | ||
| Sifo |
Thank you. You have just made my point for me. I think a small study of autopsies that are looking at typical lung problems that develop is very different from trying to devise a study for treatment. It's a shame you dismiss what you admit you didn't take the time to watch. I certainly don't dismiss the potential of HCQ, but certainly acknowledge that it's not proven either. Did you see where I complained of our governor who threatened physician licenses if they prescribe HCQ as a treatment for Covid-19? I find that absurd. But the MSM will never pick that one up, because it compliments our President. Didn't you just quote the MSM? That sounds like EXACTLY the same wording you - and others - are using to justify a similarly-untested control of society through shutdowns, social distancing, and other restraints. Untested? Far from it. It goes back at least as far back as the Spanish Flu epidemic in 1918. I know it wasn't invented then either, but don't ask me to cite specific examples. Isolation is proven mitigation. That doesn't mean that I agree with preventing people from fishing from a boat with a motor. It is clear to me though that with the isolation that has been forced on us, less cases of the WuFlu will be spread around. To argue otherwise simply flies in the face of medical science. So, why is your way (state controls, shutdowns, etc) OK to do, but trying actual MEDICINE, is not OK? When have I said don't try medicine? I'm all for it. Real answers from medicine take time though. At this point, we don't have any good scientific medical studies on treating this though. That's being worked on, but, again, it takes time. Meanwhile, we do have proven things, like isolation that will limit transmission of the virus. Do you not believe that isolation limits transmission? That's the potential side-effects for LONG TERM USE of the medicine - which, by all indications, will not be needed in this instance. Most of these studies are shorter than 1 week, and show positive results. How about the long-term side effects on society, from mass-shutdowns? I don't recall being given a choice as to whether I was OK with those side effects...were you? Medicine, however, you can decline. Doctors are required to inform their patients, who then have the right to decline treatment - and a doctor cannot force a patient to accept a treatment. Besides, I don't think I've seen a single ad on TV for a single medication, that doesn't spout 'fine print' about side effects, or potential interaction problems. So, why is everyone fighting this so hard? Easy. It could potentially end the terror, and remove power from the power-hungry. I'm not clear why you seem to have a beef with me on the medicine part of this. I do point out that current treatments are not proven. I do admit that some are showing very good promise. I really think this is a rational position given what we currently know about this. As for what your state has done, complain to your governor. I've mentioned before that I'm glad I'm not in the position of weighing the value of human life against the value of commerce. That's a lose/lose place to be. |
