| Author | Message | ||
     Ratbuell |
Do the math on that rate of growth for the next few months. I suggest everyone read the post earlier in this thread from Saturday, 09:00, from Hughlysses. The current rate of growth simply will not continue. Here's his post: Here’s an interesting technical article I found on Twitter this morning. It discusses the successful use of “serum” to treat critical patients. Serum is filtered blood plasma from people who’ve had COVID-19 and recovered. The MOST interesting statement in the article though is this: quote: The death toll is subsiding. There is a rumor that it was the on-coming warm weather that killed the coronavirus. The rumor claimed that the virus would perish at temperature over 25 deg. C, ignoring the fact that the same viruses usually claimed the human body at 42 deg. C. It is the ultra-violet sun wave that kills the viruses. The loss of destructive potency came after the coronaviruses had proliferated though certain number of generations; the number still awaited to be determined. This is a direct evidence that the coronavirus responsible for COVID-19 was engineered or man-made. “Transduced” viruses always revert to their wild type, losing their insertions of transduced DNA that conveyed fatality to humans. This is analogous to a soldier like Rambo losing an arm or two after many battles overseas. In time, all “transduced” viruses will lose the killing capacity that they were engineered for, just like soldiers turning to become civilians. The common cold virus never disappears like the MERS and the SARS viruses because the cold viruses are natural products of evolution through tens of millions of years. Here’s a link if you’d like to read: https://www.scirp.org/html/1-2390082_98735.htm This is a VERY good article, and it illustrates something important - it appears the virus is LOSING strength as it goes through generational evolution. Read the article. It is a medical text, not "news", not political, not filtered through any lens whatsoever. Pure science. Viruses that are 'engineered'...will lose their 'engineering' as they go through generational evolution, and return back to their core genetics. In other words...they lose potency, compared to what was created in a lab. There's more on that in the article. I won't pontificate, or filter, or color it with my opinions. READ IT. Form your own opinions. I'm with FB1 on this one. This never struck me as a global "crisis", and certainly not one that justified crashing the entire global economy. Does it suck to get sick? Sure. But...as I've said before - this is not Captain Tripps. Catching it is not a death sentence. Does it speed the process if you already have medical issues? Yes - so be careful. But shutting down our entire nation? The entire globe? Seems a bit extreme to me...but, that's what I get for thinking for myself, having common sense, and evaluating data for myself as it becomes available as opposed to listening to the puppets in the "press" yap about it. | ||
| H0gwash |
It was a good run, but the stock market was overdue for an adjustment. The yield curve inverted and investors stopped looking long term and shopped short term instead. Investors have more control of the stock market, not democrat murderers emptying a 12-gauge into the economic heart of America. | ||
| Jolly |
Maybe the Italians need to read that article so they will stop dying!!! It’s warm, you missed your window... QUIT IT!!! WTF?? This information has merit on viruses we know and understand, and can apply certain, limited models to... This approach for COVID-19 is hopeful at best as COVID-19 is a new CORONAVIRUS.... We’re hoping as a world that temperature changes will indeed stunt this CORONAVIRUS... This week it’s already low to mid 60F in Italy .... so what temperature do we need to see in Italy before they stop dying??? Why are they so motivated to support the fallacy of this disease? I think the challenge for some, most(?) Americans is that you, WE are so protected that you never really find yourself in fear for your life and simply can’t grapple with the concept....it’s so alien that it must be false... Having been chased by Russian fighters, locked onto by SAMS, literally crawling through jungle lines in DEEEP South America.... I believe in what I’ve seen! We have a fragile umbrella protecting us that at times is the strongest in the world against “tangible” threats, against threats that don’t care.... viruses and PANDEMICS, we are just as vulnerable.. this isn’t a gimmick in the US, this is a PANDEMIC, not declared by the POTUS, but by other leaders as well. It’s surreal for sure, and I honestly believe THIS is what so many Americans struggle with! | ||
| Jolly |
“Catching this” is a death sentence for me, I have 70% disability following my 30 years defending and protecting this country, with things I’ve subjected my body to, it’s a death sentence to my wife who developed LUPUS after the birth of our son 7 months ago, it’s a death sentence to my son at 7 months old, it’s a death sentence to my 5 yr old daughter who has respiratory challenges... Heightened because my wife is in the medical profession as a provider.... | ||
| Ratbuell |
Investors have more control of the stock market, not democrat murderers emptying a 12-gauge into the economic heart of America. It's not just Wall Street...it's Main Street. "stay home for 2 weeks" "mandatory shutdown" - all non-essential offices are closed by order of the government curfews schools closed, students sent home restaurants, bars, malls - forced to close runs on essentials - red meat, toilet paper, milk, bread - for no good reason runs on ammunition nationwide - panic buying depletes inventory, and prevents the unprepared from preparing. Can't take our guns? Might as well make them innocuous - no ammo, might as well throw that handgun at someone. Various locales declaring martial law: no alcohol sales no gasoline sales other than into a tank attached to a motor vehicle (so much for generators, eh?) no firearm or ammunition sales (but THAT's not an agenda or anything...) no gatherings in groups larger than 10 people (free speech, anyone?) "nonviolent" offenders going free, no detention at all (look up what's considered "non-violent" to these people - hint: google "philadelphia nonviolent")...which makes all the closed businesses PRIME targets for looting and destruction, since those people doing the looting and destroying know they won't go to jail. This...is more than a market adjustment. This...is more than a prudent reaction to a marginally-hopped-up version of influenza. This...is what people (a political party bent on domination) do when they're backed into a corner. And, we're all bending over and taking it - taking the curfews, taking the "no gatherings of more than ten people", taking the no revenue (and the reliance on the government tit, via unemployment, in the process)...taking it all, in the name of "coronavirus". I don't buy it. And I'm afraid of what it'll turn into. Not medically...but politically. Personal-freedom-wise. This...is not good. Martial Law is going to stick around, even after the virus is gone. Mark my words. Keep your powder dry, folks. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Jolly - first, thank you for your service. I truly hope you and your family stay safe and healthy, since other conditions appear to be a key to this virus' ability to hurt people. I agree - we, as a nation, haven't known true challenges like prior generations. And, that has made us soft. And stupid. Please, read the medical article that Hugh posted and I copied above. This is not temperature-based, and the article openly states that - the humans who have succumbed to it, have a temperature above the "weather" anyway. This is fabricated-virus-based - viruses lose their 'augmentations' as they evolve. They return to their base structure; the augmentations 'wear off', or are bred out, for a simple reason - those augmentations cause the host body to die too quickly, and it cannot replicate. Only the original, weaker, versions can replicate because only those hosts live long enough (i.e. survive) to allow the virus to replicate and migrate. This...is high school biology class. The reason Italians are dying is not coronavirus. The reason Italians are dying is coronavirus ON TOP OF: - complications from old age (they are an OLD population) - complications from smoking (an exceedingly high number of them smoke like chimneys) - complications from drinking (they drink like fish) - complications from an unprepared medical system - complications from an unchecked national-border system, allowing anyone and everyone to simply wander into the country without any controls whatsoever, regardless of viral status. Coronavirus isn't killing Italians. Coronavirus is helping Italians die from OTHER issues, that they've had for decades. Which, admittedly, sucks for anyone with those preexisting conditions (again, I hope you and your family stay safe and healthy through this)...but it is not, by any stretch, a global death sentence. This, as I have said before, is not Captain Tripps. That doesn't mean it isn't the "last straw" for people who are already sick or compromised...but it isn't going to take a healthy population, and decimate it. This is not a global culling. As someone above posted, I wish they would publish influenza numbers alongside coronavirus numbers with every newscast...for perspective. | ||
| Tpehak |
So how is that possible that Italy has excessive amount of old people, and excessive amount of smokers and drinkers, and bad medicine at the same time? Does it mean smoking, drinking and bad medical system are good for health and causes people live longer? (Message edited by TPEHAK on March 23, 2020) | ||
| Jolly |
Sooo, the hypothesis is that the medical risks of COVID-19 will follow standard models of “similar” naturally occurring biological infections.... Interesting.... What if..... Now I’m guilty of heading down a path of grey What if this isn’t a naturally occurring biological disease... Do bioengineered (man made) diseases hold to the same models?? This came out of China.., non refutable... China has a long standing history of drastic measures to control population over-rum... non refutable fact based statement. What if?..... Did population control through random genocide measures “escape” control measures?? Standard epidemiology shows approximately 60% of a population will become infected prior to stemming the tide.... Good odds if you’re trying to control population “bloom”... Now we are treading into “discussions” for which I have zero formal education and training or background... so I’m just “spouting off”..... And Yes... there are at least two critical results of this... the medical, pandemic resultant changes, who and how many and the generational fears and impacts and changes..... my 5yr old is SCARED... and it shows in unimaginable ways, I have to remind her that she needs to focus on living life and let Daddy focus on protecting her... it is what Daddies do.... but at 5 this will plant seeds that will grow and shape her in ways I can’t protect. The next is the socio-economic impacts, jobs lost... businesses failed, spike in unemployment, massive drain on federal funds, followed by rising taxes to re-generate this reserves.... Retirements based on 401K and like investments, forcing aging workers back into the work force.... This has already manifested into both an immediate crisis and a generational reshaping crisis. | ||
| H0gwash |
This is the flu on steroids and a market adjustment. This is not a coup. The bulk of this will be over in a couple weeks. The world will still be there and we can pick up the pieces like last time. Everything will be okay. The quarantine here is ultimately voluntary and so some people are dining out communally. They could be the lucky ones. Hat's off to you Jolly. I wish the government would invest in you as you invested in it. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Ipecac, Have you ever been to Italy? I have. Everything Rat said is true. As he said, for the most part, they are dying due to complications caused by other issues. G | ||
| Gregtonn |
Jolly, You say your 5 year old is SCARED. Where did she get the information that scared her? At that age most kids get that sort of information from parents or teachers. Maybe it is time for everyone to dial it back a notch or ten. G | ||
| Jolly |
Dead is still dead, whether it’s from a direct onslaught so horrific that the host body crashes, or from secondary issues caused by Pre-existing conditions weakened in the fight for the host to survive... Dead Is Dead So it’s a perfect Darwinian “attack”... kill off the weak, the compromised, the aged, leave the strong standing....??? And it’s ok because it’s not REALLY directly killing “you” it’s just exploiting your weakness and allowing you to succumb to that... Dead Is Dead | ||
| Tpehak |
OK, maybe we need to drink and smoke more to live longer. | ||
| Ourdee |
 A parent's job is to provide a stable environment for a child to feel secure in. It's not always easy. As messed up as some of my parents were, I thought we had a garden because we liked fresh vegetables, and we had watery lipton noodle soup because that was the way we liked them. | ||
| Ourdee |
David, There is a good chance that your 5 year old hears that old people are more likely to die and looks at you as being old and is scared daddy is going to die. It is hard for any of us to see the world through a five year old's eyes. If we could there would be a lot less problems. | ||
| Tpehak |
Imagine we will never overcome coronavirus. So mankind will have to accept new human lifespan 50-60 years. | ||
| Ourdee |
I doubt that. Some will get used to that. Then will come new generations of long livers. The virus will devolve mutation after mutation till it sheds the engineering that was worked into it in the lab. There will come a day that it no longer infects humans with it's present veracity and dies off. | ||
| Gregtonn |
So Jelly since it’s a perfect Darwinian “attack”. and Dead Is Dead As a responsible have you prepared your children for living with new parents? If you truly believe things are that bad you should. G | ||
| Ourdee |
That would be having God Parents for them. All you have to do is let them know who their God Parents are. Nothing more than that. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Kids this is Bob and Betty. If we aren't around they will be your new mom and dad. Okay let's go home. G | ||
| Ducbsa |
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/03/22/crik ey-australia-warned-beer-could-run-out-if-not-clas sified-as-essential-to-life/ | ||
| Fb1 |
Whisperstealth: Fb1, You are right, in that I should have written President Trump. I usually do, I was just being lazy and I admit it, it wasn't my way of slighting or disrespecting him in any way. And I'll admit to being touchy. Been a bad day. I do think you were being a bit passive aggressive, but I knee jerked reacted instead of calmly responding and I apologize for that. Gracias, amigo, I accept your apology, and offer you an apology as well, as I too was being touchy, about perceived lack of respect for our President. I'm sorry. As to your question, I really don't know. He's between a rock and a hard place. Bingo. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, as the saying goes. Some say he didn't do enough soon enough... With no evidence to support this accusation. ...others that he is overreacting. To which I'd ask, considering the circumstances (especially considering the weaponized media): What other choice does he have? I personally think it's better to be safe than sorry. Agree...to a point... I do believe this is a targeted attack on the President, the Country, and Western Civilization as a whole. A biological attack followed by massive leftist propaganda and a push for national socialism. But I have no proof of this, and could be completely out of my mind paranoid. No, you're not "out of your mind paranoid." Millions of skeptical Americans believe as you and I do regarding the current "crisis," and have every reason to doubt (or outright disbelieve) what our Media Masters spoon-feed us on a daily basis. I do know one thing for sure: President Trump has asked us to hunker down for two weeks, and I'll give him that time. I, as well. Thanks for your thoughtful post, I appreciate it. | ||
| Fb1 |
This is the flu on steroids and a market adjustment. This is not a coup. Why is the market "adjusting"? What is the market reacting to, the virus, or the hype? | ||
| Ratbuell |
Hype. Which comes from.....you guessed it...MEDIA. | ||
| Aesquire |
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/03/w hen_youre_a_carpenter_everything_looks_like_wood.h tml The Market was due for an adjustment according to several experts. The current dreck is mostly hype, and Party politics. You may have noticed that the big Wall Street firms donate big to the Party that blocked the Stimulus bill. ( which may not be a bad idea, actually, but that's a different argument ) The big firms are taking a hit, but also are quietly buying low, but not all at once. Just like your 401k buys a little each pay period, so that fluctuations even out, smart traders are buying a bit each day, and will make out when the market rises again. So if you want an obvious conspiracy theory, consider that partisan politics and profit making later is great motive to encourage a crash, if you are already a super rich company, and it helps get the Party you bribe get power. And you can bet the big donors are promised big rewards in exchange for a little temporary pain. I'm not pushing this theory, I just point out that market behavior matches what you'd expect if the DNC was urging a crash, and the rhetoric from the propaganda arm matches deliberate economic crisis creation. | ||
| Fb1 |
Why is the market "adjusting"? What is the market reacting to, the virus, or the hype? Rat, it's probably more accurate to put it this way: the market is reacting to the reaction to the hype. It's beyond obvious at this point that the hype is weaponized. Who gains from this? Certainly not President Trump, and certainly not mainstream America. Who would orchestrate such a thing? Perhaps the same cabal that spied on a presidential candidate, and spied on a President, and launched an ongoing coup... | ||
| H0gwash |
The market is adjusting because short selling investors don't see a profit in businesses who have to close for a little while. When they reopen they will come back because there will be easy money to be made. This happens every 10 years or so. This is not new. | ||
| Sifo |
"The end" is not obvious to me, amigo. Can you enlighten? The end I had in mind was about the guy falling from a building, passing windows saying "so far, so good". The end for this is going to be very messy. It's a world changer. What's the rate of growth on testing for the past three days? Higher than the rate of growth of cases? I'm not sure that can be assumed. Testing is done selectively when symptoms suggest it is needed. Have they tested you? Why or why not? And what's the mortality rate for folks who've tested positive? Today's rough average of 1 death per 1,000,000 Americans seems pretty modest, no? 1 death per 1,000,000 Americans is going to be a changing number as this goes on. It's akin to Chicago looking at the number of murders on January 1st and declaring that it's looking pretty good this year. Mortality rate for positive testing is yet to be determined, but it seems to be narrowing in near 1%. The raw data puts it much higher, but of course there are lots of un-diagnosed cases. Much has to do with the health care that can be provided. More on that later... Finally, I hope that China's numbers are decreasing, but who's providing these numbers? Is the source trustworthy? China's numbers are complete BS. They were from the start. Controlling a virus the way they claim to have done would be a first in world history. If it were real, then they are evil for not sharing how it was done. Sure, I'm reading everything I can find. Are you comparing Italy's healthcare system to ours? Not yet. Italy isn't exactly a third world country, and the hardest hit area was very wealthy and modern. Their health care system was simply overrun with the numbers. If that happens in our major cities, then the health care will be very comparable. So will the outcomes. I saw Italy has started not treating people over 60. Here's the thing. It stops in 1 of 2 ways. Or a blend of the 2 if you wish. 1) Enough people get infected and survive that we have a herd immunity built to where it can't be effectively passed around to people who are not immune. 2) People isolate from being infected. People seem to be ignoring the warnings about this, and not isolating themselves willingly. Some steps have been taken by federal and state governments, but short of locking people down, it will only slow the spread. That's a great thing, because it gives our health care a fighting chance to keep up longer, but we are still seeing exponential growth. Do the math. It's not pretty! Herd immunity is based on a certain percentage of the population being immune. Exactly what that percentage is has to do with how easily the virus is transmitted. The fact that a high percentage of people have very mild symptoms, or none at all really works in the virus's favor on transmission. One thing we are learning though, is that even in young people, by the time they show mild symptoms, they often have lifetime respiratory complications. The death toll is only a single factor. From what I've gathered, based on the speed of transmission of this virus, you need about 80% of the population immune to get effective herd immunity. We get there every year with the flu, largely through vaccinations. Flu doesn't transmit as easily though, so herd immunity is achieved with a lower percentage of the population being immune. Given that we have no vaccine for this, immunity is only achieved through infection. Even at the mortality rate of the flu, 80% of the population being infected is going to be horrendous. It's probably 10 to 20 times that though. Once the health care system gets overrun, it gets even worse than that. At that point, we are Italy. Ponder that fact that the government and auto makers are discussing a WWII type effort to change production to building ventilators. I have to ask the question again, just how many ventilators to they anticipate having need for? Stay safe my friend! | ||
| Sifo |
I suggest everyone read the post earlier in this thread from Saturday, 09:00, from Hughlysses. The current rate of growth simply will not continue. I've heard a few epidemiologists saying he doesn't know what he's talking about. I think it was Hughlysses that posted one of those, giving the "other" side of the story. Personally, I'm going to go with the epidemiologists over the data analyst on this one. BTW, I've had the title data analyst. I'm good at it. Without understanding disease, you don't understand the data on disease. | ||
| Sifo |
This is the flu on steroids and a market adjustment. This is not a coup. It's not an either/or situation. We have just seen 3 years of attempted and failed coup attempt. They aren't done yet, and will used this crisis as a lever. It's not the flu. It's not related to flu, other than being a virus. There are similarities. There are also differences. |
