| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
https://fuell.us/ Started a thread on this here: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/253 912/846610.html?1551717397 | ||
| Zac4mac |
Thanks Jaime - Go look at the pix - FUELL PR 1 Official Images 4 March 2019 Erik's been busy, hardly surprising. Brightest news in weeks.... I really like that E-bike with the motor in the crankset!! Z | ||
| Ratbuell |
Hmm...cross posted from the other thread: This...looks cool. 125 mile range, ~30 min recharge time...not quite 3 minutes at the petrol pump, but definitely approaching "reasonable". Hopefully household 110v chargers, not goofy high-power stuff...can't wait for more specs and info. Surprised to see a hub-mounted front brake though. Perhaps Erik has taken a step towards mainstream/away from design eccentricity? | ||
| Zac4mac |
Most likely "off the shelf" availability is my WAG. I too was hoping to see a perimeter ISO brake. | ||
| Gregtonn |
I suspect the brake will change, most likely into some sort of regenerative mechanism. At this point I doubt if they will be giving all their design ideas away. G | ||
| Ourdee |
Regen. braking is about using the electric motor to put charge back in the battery and drag on the wheel. I like the idea of hydraulics to put pressure into a nitrogen tank for that hole shot after you stop. | ||
| Shoggin |
Forgoing the perimeter brake maybe for marketing reasons? Familiarity with Buell name without caring enough to know the story isn't good. He is 0 for 2 ya know  Sure, Re-gen braking can help charge the battery, but It isn't capable of replacing an actual brake (yet). | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
I'm hoping they bring a demo trailer to the WV Buell Rally this year! Maybe we can get H-D to bring a couple of Livewire's and we can race them... | ||
| Ourdee |
but It isn't capable of replacing an actual brake (yet). Just a few lines of code away. | ||
| Hootowl |
That’s not a hub mounted brake. | ||
| Ratbuell |
True. My point was, non-ZTL. Looks like a front wheel off a Honda CB300... | ||
| Jaimec |
Ourdee, a magnetic brake can SLOW the vehicle but it can't STOP the vehicle. The faster the wheel is rotating, the more braking force will be applied as the kinetic energy is converted into electricity. However, below a certain speed, it will simply "coast." I can feel that in my Zero every time I use the regen like "engine braking." It will slow up to a point, but after that I HAVE to use the brakes or I'll just coast into the vehicle in front of me. The regen is useful for entering corners but not actually STOPPING. | ||
| Hughlysses |
True. My point was, non-ZTL. Looks like a front wheel off a Honda CB300... While it's not ZTL, notice that the disk is attached to the wheel about half way between the rim and the hub, rather than being attached directly to the hub. I've noticed several current bikes have their brakes mounted similarly. Not ZTL, but at least they're shortening the load path from the brake disk to the tire which I'd guess allows a lighter wheel than attaching the disk to the hub. | ||
| Jaimec |
I wonder if the ZTL patent is now owned by LAP which is why Erik can't use it? | ||
| Ratbuell |
I don't know if it's a "can't" or simply a "didn't"...maybe Court will have it in the new book?  | ||
| Ourdee |
Like I said,"A few lines of code". Computer could control the system. Motor drives bike. Motor acts as generator. Motor controlled by computer with sensors can apply a reversing force to the drive line. Just needs the sensors, brake lever, computer speed controller, and it is fly by wire just like the throttle. You squeeze the brake and can't tell you didn't use a hydraulic system. The computer could take it beyond regen. It just hasn't been set up to do it. Almost everything it needs is already in place. | ||
| Ourdee |
It is how I stop my 300 pound RC. I disconnected the mechanical brakes. | ||
| Jaimec |
Hmmmmm... using the motor in that form to me would be wasting electrical energy that could be put to better use driving the vehicle forward. In an electric vehicle, range is EVERYTHING. I use to race RC cars and I know what you're talking about, even though my cars were nowhere NEAR 300 lbs. In fact, that was the ONLY brake the cars had. | ||
| Needs_o2 |
At 9000', I could actually enjoy all the power everyone else gets to enjoy!  | ||
| Ourdee |
Yes | ||
| 1313 |
I haven't been reading all the press on Fuell - so that might be why I find this article from Hemmings so interesting. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
I wonder how it does in slow maneuvers. During a U-turn we teach the students to pull the clutch in at the beginning of the U-turn then ease it out as they complete the U-turn. I am curious to see how it handles the slow stuff. | ||
| Ourdee |
I'm with you on this question. It is not just the slipping to increase power control, but the use of the engine as a gyro. | ||
| Jaimec |
Not true. The gyroscopic effect is miniscule and only counts if the flywheel is spinning in line with the direction of travel. If that were the case, slipping the clutch would not work with Goldwings, BMW Boxers, Moto Guzzis or any other motorcycle whose flywheel runs perpendicularly to the path of travel. The only reason to slip the clutch is to keep the engine in the power band (and prevent stalling) while simultaneously moving slow enough to make the turn. This isn't a concern with an electric motor since they are ALWAYS in their power band and NEVER stall. It is just a matter of retraining your reflexes to work with the new reality. There is only one case I can think of where you might want a clutch on an electric bike and that's the reason Yamaha includes one with their electric trials bike: it makes it easier to loft the front wheel to surmount BIG obstacles. | ||
| Oopezoo |
^^^^^^what he said No need for feathering a clutch on an electric vehicle for regular use. Its all in the programming with fly by wire and 100% torque available all the time. If the twist grip is properly tuned (and there is no reason to think it won't be), there should be plenty of resolution at the low end of the throttle input for smooth low speed maneuvers. We are just used to the compromises we have had to make over the years because of the internal combustion engines being used. I'm a traditional gear head guy that made the switch to electric for my daily driver. Its a new normal that took some getting used to, but I won't be going back. Only considerations moving forward are range and cost. | ||
| Slaughter |
I like the idea of hydraulics to put pressure into a nitrogen tank for that hole shot after you stop. You're kidding, right?! You DO realize that we're talking torque equivalent to a litrebike that starts from ZERO RPM! Now you want to add one of the most inefficient power delivery systems used today?} | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
This guy gets it... I'm with you on this question. It is not just the slipping to increase power control, but the use of the engine as a gyro Trying to do slow maneuvers with just throttle control doesn't work worth a crap We teach people to pull the clutch into the friction zone, maintain a steady throttle and drag the rear brake while doing U-Turns.... and TURN YOUR HEAD! and look where you want to go... wish I had a nickel for every time I have had to say that. I still think they should bring a demo truck to the WV Buell Rally this August so I can try one for myself | ||
| Adrenaline_junkie |
They should bring the demo truck to the WV Buell Rally a week early that way they can be properly "tested" in a real world environment. I can get them volunteer test pilots. Me first. | ||
| Ourdee |
I'll go second. | ||
| Ourdee |
Now you want to add one of the most inefficient power delivery systems used today? I still like the idea. I know it is not practical. |
