| Author | Message | ||
     Midknyte |
These Are The Electric Motorcycle That Could Revo…: https://youtu.be/Vy2h15B4P04 | ||
| Gregtonn |
Sorry I haven't been following this thread. re: Capacitors. In the early '90s I was tasked to design several high voltage, high capacity (yeah I get it) capacitor packages for the Space Station. It was my first SS project and senior engineers thought it of it as a "no-brainer" project. After I did the math and engineering using current technology I showed them that they would be looking at over 500 pounds and several cubic feet. It took about 2 years and several coast to coast trips to work with some very talented cap engineers to reduce those packages to less than 50 pounds and about 1 cubic foot. I'm not sure if the tech is still classified but it was one of my favorite projects. I moved on but often wished I could help develop the tech for other projects. The possibilities are...? G | ||
| Ratbuell |
So...capacitors are not only capacity, size, and voltage...but also discharge rate, yes? My impression of caps from an audio-engineer perspective is, they're excellent storage devices for hard, fast hits of voltage required by bass cabinets and amps. If you speak audio...60Hz electric is heavily "compressed" electricity and can't handle sudden, severe power spikes without either browning-out or blowing a breaker or fuse. Caps fill the gap, and allow power to be "un-compressed" and give those hits and spikes. So, in an electric motor capacity (no pun)...how would one figure the rate of release / discharge rate, to make it effective and aid in range? Or - and this is entirely possible - am I missing another application of a capacitor? | ||
| Ourdee |
...how would one figure the rate of release / discharge rate, to make it effective and aid in range? \black} From what little I understand the Tesla's secret to range is the batteries chosen, limit the rate of discharge. If you chose a capacitor as an end around for extra punch when wanted, and the energy was not already stored in the capacitor, you would have to back off the throttle to free up enough flow to fill it. Engineering the max flow needed into your battery selection would seam the better choice. My choice would be to have another bank of batteries used as backup power available to drop in series for red key operation. } | ||
| Jaimec |
The "Magic Bullet" would be a power source that charged as quickly as a capacitor, and discharged as slowly as a battery. | ||
| Ourdee |
An absolutely golden bullet, that. | ||
| Aesquire |
Some radical named Henry Ford used a substance called "gasoline" to try and fix the problems with electric cars. My biggest giggle is the Edison cell. You can rebuild them, they are sturdy, and the only real downsides are energy density and that they do self discharge, slowly, and emit Hydrogen gas. The energy density part? Well, every kind of thing was bigger back then. The U.S. Army had only recently gone from .45" to .30" bullets. A 12 horsepower gasoline engine weighed over 100 pounds, had no real carb, and was custom built for the very first working powered heavier than air flying machine, setting a record for power output per pound. Perspective can be interesting. | ||
| Ourdee |
Cars should not weigh as much as they do. | ||
| Jaimec |
I thought that was Gottlieb Daimler? | ||
| Hootowl |
Ford pioneered mass production, not the gasoline engine. Or ease of use. I’ll bet only a few of us know how to drive a model T. | ||
| Aesquire |
My dad taught me to drive a T. I make no claims for competence, but I've started & drove one. He had to assist the driving test examiner, when he took his test in his Model T. Airplane guys today still have fuel mixture controls, but when's the last time you adjusted the spark to start a vehicle? ( and the answer, everything I've rebuilt or repaired counts, so,...when? I'm curious ) Daimler's earliest stuff ran on city gas, didn't it? ( natural gas ) Then ( per Wiki ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottlieb_Daimler decided on mineral spirits easily bought at the pharmacy. Henry Ford suggested going to alcohol in WW1, to stretch the oil supply. Which... we did, much later, with gasohol. ( to much cursing even today ) Here's a partially wrong pro booze puff piece that is in error about the Model T! https://www.fuelfreedom.org/throwback-thursday-hen ry-ford-alcohol-fuel-visionary/ A few debunks... I never heard the dual fuel Model T rumor, but sure, it had enough adjustment to run on most stuff that burns. That's for MacGuyver or post apocalypse stuff, or Sandy's Green Dream World. Just use gas. https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2017/04/23/fact-chec k-henry-ford-didnt-design-the-model-t-as-a-multi-f uel-vehicle/ https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2017/04/30/fact-chec k-rockefeller-didnt-pursue-prohibition-to-ensure-e thanols-demise-as-a-fuel/ My opinion on booze as fuel have been long ranted on the science thread. My opinions have changed as I found I was wrong. The process is ongoing. I think it's a useful fuel, and a Utopian Dream, and ( ironically like Communism ) if it had been implemented right! It Could! Have! Worked! ( Darn! I wanted it to! ) There's certainly a cult fan base. Unfortunately, I think we have a lot of bugs to work out of any alt fuel. Even electric cars just are NOT an instant fix, anyway. We couldn't convert to electric tomorrow, instantly. There isn't the infrastructure yet, and part of that is More Big Expensive Electrical Generation and connectivity. There's a time lag between "we need more power" and plugging in. Utopians always skip the slow and gradual and expensive, part. As to the OP.... I'm not in the market for an electric bike that expensive, and I automatically question the cost value ratio of a Hog of any kind.... But that's hypocritical of me. I bought a Buell on purpose. I perceived a value beyond the standard metrics. That they were personality and engineering metrics I chose, doesn't mean that the styling and tradition metrics used by H-D "types" is wrong. Won't keep me from making fun of people. | ||
| 86129squids |
I know a one-armed guy who restores Model T cars, drives them, and still can roof a house at 83. Fact. Look up great guy or badass, Chuck's pic is in the dictionary. He's also a clog or square dancer. | ||
| Gregtonn |
...but when's the last time you adjusted the spark to start a vehicle? Duh...every time I replaced the points in an engine. Also when starting many motorcycles, tractors and small engines. Ever see/feel what can happen when you get a backfire trying to kick start an old Harley? G | ||
| Zac4mac |
My '48 Chief had throttle on the right grip and spark on the left grip. Left foot ran the clutch and a 3 speed stick on the side of the tank. Right side tank held oil in front, gas in the rear 2/3. Left tank was all gas. no way to ride drunk... Z | ||
| Aesquire |
A random selection of Americans would probably have some dinosaurs like me that learned how to drive farm equipment before they sat at the wheel of a car. A random selection of motorcycle riders will have some dinosaurs that had learned to fix points ignitions. A tiny subset of that subset, actually worked on motorcycles that you could touch a magneto or points plate while crouched over the seat after a mighty kick. ( the vast percentage think Magneto is a comic book villain ) A larger subset of backyard mechanics, overall, ( a small & shrinking subset of the general population ) have twisted a distributor on a car, while trying to get it running. I figure nearly every motorcycle tinkerer has done that to a car. I'll ignore pros for sake of discussion, as most of them have adjusted spark timing some time. Although, more & more, that means pushing a button/key. It's no surprise to me that a higher percentage of Badwebbers have diddled ignition timing than the general population. I'd have bet on that, instantly. And assumed such competence on obsolete and rare machinery. I also expected most to miss the question. When? Did You? Last manually adjust ignition timing? Then, after expected answers like "Tuesday" and "your mammas so fat" I was going to do the expected clever thing, and ask "ok, but now about with a control on the steering wheel/handlebar?" I'd expect at least six have. ( more if everyone was following this thread ) | ||
| Aesquire |
Gregtonn, never on a Harley. Until my Cyclone, I owned Japanese bikes. And brag that since reading the Suzuki Electrical Works And Equipments manual from the early '70s, I just used a matchbook cover and a continuity checker, I just set them and it worked. I was tossed over the bars on my best friend's Norton Combat Commando while he diddled ignition timing. His leg was tired. SO, sure! I'll kick it! Nope. Nope. Diddle. Mighty kick! Perfect form! Kick back launched me, as I stubbornly refused to let go of the bars, and landed on the floor, with the front wheel arching my spine into a new shape. Gritting teeth, "too advanced! Ow! " | ||
| Sifo |
Done much of that stuff. Happy to not have to anymore.  | ||
| Crusty |
The first time I even kicked a motorcycle was in 1968. John Annal had bought a 1948 Indian Chief for $200.00. I was visiting him and was admiring it and he let me try to start it. He neglected to tell me how to retard the timing, so when I kicked it, it popped and kicked back. Like Patrick, I went over the bars. It hurt like hell, but I suffered no permanent injury, except to my pride. Another friend had a 1949 Harley 45. He let me take it out for a ride. I think I stalled it about 30 times just trying to coordinate using a foot clutch with the throttle at a full stop. I'm happy that technology has made riding easier and more dependable. | ||
| Tootal |
BSA 441 Victor. I used to leave the keys in it at High School just to watch guys try and take it for a joy ride. KA-WUMP! Launch! | ||
| Court |
>>>BSA 441 Victor . . . a mechanical catapult | ||
| Ourdee |
It was on a tractor once and on an outboard motor once. I was a kid. So a long time ago. The tractor was on the steering. Technically so was the outboard's. | ||
| Jaimec |
First bike I ever kick-started was my brother's Honda CB360T. Kicked over easily; no fuss, no muss. I had a two-stroke Kawasaki KE100 that always fired up on the first kick too... but that little twiddler of a motor wouldn't've had much kick back anyway. | ||
| Midknyte |
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/video-first- test-rides-of-harleys-small-electric-bikes | ||
| Alchemy |
Earnings not so good. Really love that concept vehicle at the bottom. Bold mirror placement! https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/2019/01/29/ha rley-davidson-u-s-bike-sales-tumble-company-says-i ts-developing-more-electric-motorcycles/2708291002 / | ||
| Court |
I find that concept electric "motorcycle" damn appealing and would be a sure bet to hit on one . . . EXCEPT . . . . Rather than hover in the $3-4K price range . . . I'd wager HD prices it about $7k. Guesses? | ||
| Midknyte |
This is another interesting bike that I think has made the rounds before. I'm curious to know the difference in unsprung weight of the hub motor vs a traditional setup's hub, spokes, and braking bits. It does allow more of the central portion of the bike to be used for battery space and this bike approaches my personal desire of a 200 mile minimum range. RMK unveils working prototype of its hubless E2 electric motorcycle https://newatlas.com/rmk-e2-prototype/58237/ https://electrek.co/2019/02/01/rmk-e2-electric-mot orcycle/  | ||
| Ourdee |
They should go all in. Get rid of the swingarm. Put the shock inside the rim and use the ring as the swingarm. Remember you heard it here first. Crud, throw a pivot in there for a steering head too. Put steerable drive wheels front and rear with the suspension inside those oversize hubs. A little fly by wire and it could drive forwards and in reverse with never putting a foot down. Don't make me start drawing stuff! | ||
| Crusty |
Oh, hell; why not just put a battery, motor and gyroscopes on a unicycle? Or maybe a motorized pogo stick? | ||
| Ourdee |
battery, motor and gyroscopes on a Monowheel Oh ya. | ||
| Torquehd |
Oh, hell; why not just put a battery, motor and gyroscopes on a unicycle? Been done. A lot. Old new (because a conventional motorized unicycle wasn't dangerous enough) |
