| Author | Message | ||
     Aesquire |
The body shape of the Livewire reminds me of Star Wars episode 7, Rey's Speeder. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rey%27s_speeder I think with a little thought, and a lot of work, a faux Speeder body kit could be made. Sure, you could design one for a Zero, too, but Star Wars fans are even crazier than H-D fans. | ||
| Aesquire |
The Novus, linked to above, is a heavy electric bicycle. The lines get blurred between bicycle and motorcycle in part because the first successful motorcycles were just powered bicycles. The legal lines, however, are worth some attention. I'm seriously considering an electric motor for my mountain bike, or just having my local bike shop build me one from "scratch" with a light frame and parts. ( all my bicycles are custom assembled by me and my buds ) I'd retain normal pedals and crank operation, multi speed, and everything except the battery can be budgeted easily. I don't insist on Campagnolo, mid-high range Shimano will hold up. Battery, as always on electric anything, is the expensive and problem element. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Harley is the first major manufacturer to produce an electric bike, and all everyone can do is shit on them There is a reason no other major manufacturer sells an electric bike. The return on investment is poor. The same goes for the auto manufacturers. The only reason Tesla is still a float is because of government subsidies and investment and private investment generated by exuberance not fiscal prudence. | ||
| Midknyte |
LS possibly at 13 bills https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/18/lightning-stri ke-electric-motorbike/ | ||
| Jaimec |
I have to admit, the Lightning Strike has me intrigued! I also want to see what Zero's SR/F is all about, too. Exciting things happening. | ||
| Airbozo |
" You're thinking of Polaris; they bought Brammo and sold a rebadged Empulse under the "Victory" brand for a couple of years before ending that along with the entire Victory line." I may or may not have seen the renderings of the new Brammo model. Depending on who will get in trouble... (I was not supposed to be looking that direction) I was impressed. "And not one of you has even seen one, except in pictures. " I've sat on one and spent some time looking it over, but missed my time to ride it because I had to get back to work. Admittedly, it was the prototype version they used on the intro tour, but it was well constructed and comfortable. Everyone that came back from their demo ride had a huge smile on their face. Even the burly couch riders enjoyed it. The range can be dealt with as a commute bike, but the price is really only for collectors. | ||
| 1313 |
Some of you are as bad as those jackasses who think that a Sportster is a "Girls bike" and anything that doesn't look like it was designed in 1940 ain't a real Harley.  BULLSHIT #1 I (still) own a V-Rod. BULLSHIT #2 I suppose that if the MoFoCo offered them at an MSRP of $19.95 plus $7.95 shipping & handling you'd be frothing at the mouth because they weren't absorbing the extra charges. Hell, for $19.95 (plus $7.95 shipping), I'd likely buy multiple. One to have at home and one to leave at regular destinations (work, work, work, work, work, shit do I do anything besides work?), so there would always be a fully charged bike waiting for me. BULLSHIT #3 Why don't you wait until you've ridden one before you shit all over it? I didn't "shit all over it", I only shit on the price. $30K for something I can't even ride from NC to East Troy in 2 days (like a normal motorcycle), WTF?!?! BULLSHIT #4 I tried to get on the list to ride the (albeit prototype) LiveWire in Asheville, but the MoFo's at the MoCo never got back to me. In all honesty, the 'local' Zero Motorcycle outfit has about the same success rate, but I'm sure they intended to have their demo-fest when Hurricane Florence came through here... Sorry that you woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning Crusty, but I wouldn't expect many here to swoon over any H-D product. Turning the tables a bit, what are your thoughts about the adventure and streetfighter bikes H-D has dangled under everyone's noses? Are they better than Buells could ever be? Are they going to be the bikes that 'save the MoCo'? | ||
| Crusty |
My thoughts about bikes I haven't seen or ridden? I'll give you my opinion once I've taken a demo ride. But I will say that I don't think that anybody builds bikes that were on a par with the XB platform. Then again, I think the Sportster is the most undervalued engine in motorcycling. Erik showed us what it had for potential. I just get tired of the unending hate that spews out whenever Harley does anything. And I didn't accuse you of hating anything specifically, I just said attitudes on this thread were as bad as. And I know full well what that jackass Wandell did, but he's gone. Levatich seems to have his head on a lot straighter and is serious about building motorcycles; not just butt jewelry. Why is it that nobody gets upset when Polaris pulls a move like shutting down their "Performance" like of bikes (Victory), or when they brag about their "Proud and noble heritage" of competing against Harley a century ago when they've only been in existence for less than a decade? (Indian) Harley is trying something new. They're just another Corporation. But I do like some of their products. Why look for things that may be wrong? It's kind of like CNN looking at anything to badmouth President Trump. And yes, I have a crappy attitude. I threw my back out a few days ago and it's taking it's sweet time getting better. When it's painful to pour my morning cup of coffee, it makes my attitude less than ideal.. | ||
| Zacks |
...butt jewelry...  | ||
| Jaimec |
My thoughts on eBikes: I don't give a rat's ass about all the "Golly Gee" techno wizardry. THIS is what is important: 1) Real world range 2) Top speed 3) Range when run AT that top speed 4) Recharge time on standard household outlet That's it. Give me a bike that can do roughly 70 to 80 miles on a charge at a steady 70 mph and I'm interested. Everything else is just garnish. Being able to get a full charge overnight on a household circuit is also important. Right now doing a cross country trip on an eBike is impractical unless you're trying to prove a point, so fast charge times are just "nice to have but unnecessary." | ||
| Ratbuell |
I think fast recharge is likely the most important. How often do you ride - not "across country" - but enough seat-time to burn through more than one tank of fuel? Sure, it's nice to get off the bike and stretch the legs for a 3 minute fillup...but getting off the bike and thumb-twiddling for a couple HOURS? Nah. I get the idea that it's "just a commuter so you can get to work, cheap". I also get that electrics provide instant torque - and instant fun - and in theory that'll make people want to ride longer, farther, and more often. I also suspect that if folks are going to buy a "commuter" vehicle...it'll be a $1500 used Honda Civic, not a $30k electric bike. As a society, we spend big $$ on things we LIKE, and minimal $ on things we "have to have". And as a caveat about Polaris/Indian...Polaris shut down Victory because a) it was marginally successful and hadn't gotten the traction they'd wanted, and b) they realized it was, at this stage of the game, silly to compete with themselves once they acquired the rights to the original Indian brand. Polaris is big...but they're not General Motors, and didn't see the benefit of trying to have Cadillac, and Chevy, and GMC...so they chose to focus time, energy, and development on the brand with a well-known heritage. None of their advertising says THEY have been competing with HD for a century...it says - truthfully - that Indian is the "oldest" American motorcycle brand. They'll fully admit it hasn't been in nonstop production and give credit to HD for being able to do that; they'll fully admit they are custodians of an original brand and concept/design, and not the originators. But, they're also doing things the right way - buying the rights to the original century-old paint colors; using original designs and shapes wherever they can; and showing respect and proper handling to the actual, original Indian motorcycle company. I much prefer an Indian to a Victory - they are more of a solid piece; Victory's always seemed to be parts-bin bikes to me. Polaris is definitely taking the time to do it right, and they're helping the entire industry by pushing HD - hard - to improve. And, that benefits all riders. | ||
| Aesquire |
A few folk at work have Victory bikes. Tranny is a bit clunky, but styling is nice. Now you can guess if the second sentence is about bikes.  | ||
| Ebutch |
I could go for This !!!!!!!  https://autoportal.com/news/wait-what-a-nuclear-powered-motorcycle-7442.html | ||
| Tootal |
I'm loving the competition between Harley and Indian. I think it has improved both, although I still don't like the Big Twin engines. The Sportster engine is a much better design as long as they're using good cranks. Oh, and I never said the Sporty was a girls bike, I said it was a dirt bike!!  I like dirt bikes! | ||
| Greg_e |
If LiveWire were cheaper, I would consider getting one. But $30k is way out of the ballpark for me. Way, far outside. I wonder what they could do with newer motor/batteries, this design is many years old now and a lot has changed. Anecdotal: Kia recently changed the Soul EV from a ~100ish range to a ~200ish range vehicle (2019 to 2020 model change), assuming it really gets that far, they probably did so by using better batteries, not taking more space. Might be wrong, but I think there is newer battery tech that Harley could use. Of course the Soul EV is only somewhere in the $30k range as well. Which one hauls more groceries? Harley might do OK with a fast charge, 200+ mile range touring machine. The DC fast charging is supposed to be fractions of the time of typical chargers out today. if you could top up for $5 to $10 at restaurant in the time it takes to have a cup of coffee or meal, then I could see it being successful, and doing it at $30k since the gas touring machines are around that $30k price. I know, asking a lot here and still way more than I would pay. But never said I was going to buy a brand new touring machine either. | ||
| Torquehd |
What's wrong with wolf shirts and mustaches? | ||
| Sifo |
I see big problems with public fast charging. Tesla gets away with it through proprietary charging stations. My understanding is that you can't fast charge your Leaf at a Tesla station. Different battery designs have very different charging requirements. This is especially true when you are trying to fast charge a battery. Do it wrong and you are damaging the single most expensive component on the vehicle. Possibly a component that is more expensive than the rest of the vehicle combined. So if we don't have a standard, there can't be a universal public fast charger. Then we have the ever extending promise that newer/better battery technology is just a short time away. Without knowing the requirements for that technology, who in their right mind is going to try to design a soon to be obsolete public fast charging station. Even with fast charging, a lunch stop isn't near long enough for a full charge on a Tesla. I'm not sure that a smaller battery will be much faster. You have limits on how fast you can charge a single cell, so it's incorrect to think that a bike with a much smaller battery will be much faster to get charged. You might be able to damage the battery though. YouTube is full of videos of people going cross country in their Teslas. Tesla actually has pretty impressive software built in to help with planning such a trip, complete with meal stops. The thing that would really bother me about this though, is you wind up having to fill your stomach around when your car is hungry. Then the software seems to assume that you will be able to recharge again at your destination. It's all about stopping just long enough to get you where you are going, I'm sure with some reasonable buffer for the unexpected. Does all of that sound appealing to you on a motorcycle? No doubt, that's a personal choice. It certainly doesn't fit my interests. I will admit, I've toyed with the idea of a used Leaf as a commuter vehicle. They can be picked up pretty cheaply, and would certainly fit most of my commuting needs. Then I have an issue that my parking situation will have seasonal changes. I'm not sure how much range you get with the cord coming out of the charger to allow for that sort of flexibility. Similar issues would likely follow with an electric bike for me. I guess what all of this adds up to is that with most electric vehicles, you pay a premium price for a vehicle that forces you into quite a number of limitations. That's one thing when you are getting tax rebates on the purchase and charging without a charge for road tax. Those days will come to a screeching halt if electrics ever become mainstream though. Add to that, I paid $1.96 for gas this morning, so there isn't a lot of pressure from current pump prices. Me... I've been waiting for a long time for the promised batteries that will make electrics desirable. It seems that technology is still just a few years away. I remember reading that in Popular Science when I was a kid in the 60s.  | ||
| Sifo |
One more thing occurs to me. I've always enjoyed my pleasure riding to get out to some out of the way place, and find a meal out there. Fun to do. Usually, not the kind of place you are going to expect to see investment in things like EV charging stations. I try to escape the areas where you are likely to find charging stations. YMMV. | ||
| Greg_e |
The DC chargers with compatible vehicles are touting very quick recharge times: https://www.fleetcarma.com/dc-fast-charging-guide/ Still not saying we are ready over here, but sometime down the road, the choice will be removed from us and we will need to have alternative powered vehicles (or walk). | ||
| Zacks |
I was involved in an automated project moving pallets in a freezer. We used a European company design that had low leakage capacitors for running the motors. 480VAC 3ph chargers that would charge them up in 8 sec and be good for 12 minutes of run time at -10F. I'm wondering if you could scale up the caps for longer run time or use some other cap tech. Would be interesting to be in the R&D world. | ||
| Shoggin |
I concur with Sifo 100% I've never stopped to take a picture where there would potentially be a charging station. Ironically being the only place I may actually hang out for a re-charge for a couple hours. | ||
| Shoggin |
I chose this motorcycling lifestyle because it provides me adventure and freedom . I see neither within "110 miles of urban riding". | ||
| Sifo |
The DC chargers with compatible vehicles are touting very quick recharge times: https://www.fleetcarma.com/dc-fast-charging-guide/ Still not saying we are ready over here, but sometime down the road, the choice will be removed from us and we will need to have alternative powered vehicles (or walk). Interesting article. I would be willing to bet that it will be much like the fight between VHS and Betamax, with neither standard realizing what the digital revolution will bring. Predicting the future is hard! | ||
| Greg_e |
I think it is worse than beta/vhs. | ||
| Torquehd |
I'd just like to add that NASA built a vehicle that's been flying at 35,000 MPH for 42 years without a recharge. It's nuclear powered. | ||
| Steveford |
Would you trust a nuclear powered vehicle between your legs if it was built by Harley? No need for a flashlight, I can use my nuts! | ||
| Crusty |
Would you trust a nuclear powered vehicle between your legs if it was built by Harley? Yes, I would. A lot more than one built by BMW. (Message edited by Crusty on January 20, 2019) | ||
| Aesquire |
The limitations of battery power are the rock electric vehicles founder on. The fans point to the breakthrough, any day now, that will make it perfection. For my entire life, and long before. See also, Fusion power. Just 20 years away for 70+ years. The H-D atomic bike will leave a trail of leaked radiation, make one corner of your garage a breeding ground for sentient termites, weigh a ton more than necessary, he under powered, and everyone will argue about synthetic coolant/lubricant. There will be a part made out of Chinese sheet metal that needs frequent replacement, requiring removing the Plutonium power cell, and splitting The transmission, and never be admitted as bad engineering or recalled. And there will be a thread here on how to fix it with The engine in the frame, using a home made tool that's 4 Harbor freight sockets welded together with a notch filed at both ends. The BMW nuclear bike will function perfectly, leave your garage spotless, have no user serviceable parts, and cost more than a fighter jet. It will have a part made of cheap Chinese sheet metal, requiring frequent replacement, at owner's expense, by returning the bike to Bavaria, be touted as a Feature, and they will Never Admit to bad engineering or issue a recall. Or ever fix the problem. Occasionally, the bike will annex a country. Or melt one. There will be a thread here on how to fix it with a home made tool. But the repair will be a violation of international law, and be blamed for the Godzilla attack on Chicago. | ||
| Torquehd |
a home made tool that's 4 Harbor freight sockets welded together with a notch filed at both ends. I see you've been rummaging through my toolbox. | ||
| Sifo |
I think it is worse than beta/vhs. I agree, but the point was that it's extremely likely that something will come along that turns everything currently competing to be kink of the hill obsolete. Basically, everything we have to choose from right now, does not deliver what the consumer really wants. Someone mentioned the use of capacitors. I have to admit, I've often wondered about that. I've seen where people have replaced starting batteries in their car with capacitors. Most examples I've seen had little reserve beyond a single start though. Easy to run it down to where it wont start. Some have found it to be just the ticket for those who make a lot of short trips where a normal battery doesn't get recharged. The capacitors will take the charge very quickly. They will also release their charge very quickly. They can be very dangerous if not handled correctly. Potential issues for the mechanics and EMS workers. I'm really not clear what keeps them from consideration for an EV though. Might be safety issues. Might be cost. Might be size. I really don't know. |
