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Cupcake_mike
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2018 - 08:02 pm: | 
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Loud pipes ruin naps |
Ourdee
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2018 - 08:32 pm: |
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Nappers gonna nap! |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2018 - 10:06 pm: |
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quote:Unlikely. And what is so special about the noise of a V-twin?
Unlikely is Ok with me.
And the V-twin sound is special because I ride one. Maybe I should have been more specific.
(Message edited by fresnobuell on December 26, 2018) |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 09:26 am: |
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If they don't see you perhaps the rumble of a V-twin might get them to wake the hell up!
Still the lazy (and •••••••) way out. Take some responsibility, and pay attention. Do it yourself, don't count on someone else.
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Ourdee
| | Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 09:47 am: |
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What do I give credit to for living this long on a motorcycle? When I was 16 my motorcycle had an off position for the headlamp. Late one evening I was riding through some S turns with the light off in a residential area. The car I narrowly missed pulled right out in front of me. I've been awake ever since. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 10:10 am: |
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Just a friendly dig there Fresno. :~)
RD, You've hit on my go-to pro-active tactic, toggling the high/low beam switch, and sometimes even hitting the horn when approaching an intersection with stopping/stopped cross traffic.
That may seem extreme, but in addition to the aforementioned motorcycle versus blind cager collision, I am also the guy who was riding along in wide open countryside in a bright red Ford F-250 4x4 only to have a car at intersection ahead come to complete stop, then pull out right in front, massive T-bone. Unbelievable. Lesson learned. Never trust other drivers. Wear a seatbelt. |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 12:14 pm: |
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quote:Still the lazy (and •••••••) way out. Take some responsibility, and pay attention. Do it yourself, don't count on someone else.
Who's counting on someone else? What don't you understand? This is a supplemental method to everything people are preaching to stay safe. Not sure how many times I re-iterated this point.
I find your attitude that you are in 100% control factors during riding a motorcycle on public roads as ludicrous as you apparently find the "noise helps" theory. If you seriously have not had a panic moment with a cager your entire life of riding, go buy a lottery ticket immediately.
I peddle in the 'hood and in town, so I do try to keep the ••••••• factor to a minimum, besides on a 1125 if you riding noisily, you are definitely riding too fast. I may still be louder than most in town, but people can tell when a loud vehicle is short-shifting, trying to be considerate and it takes the annoyance factor WAY down--at least this is how I feel personally when the shoe is on the other foot. |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 12:32 pm: |
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quote:Just a friendly dig there Fresno. :~)
+1 |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 12:38 pm: |
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The only problem is, your "supplemental" method is a massive disturbance to people who aren't even ON the road. Folks trying to sit in peace and read a paper, or simply enjoy the scenery on a nice weekend morning. It sounds like you try to mitigate that, but unfortunately you're in the minority there. And...it's unnecessary.
I know no other way to say it, but no, I have not had a panic situation on a motorcycle in my 20+ years behind the bars. I've had two accidents - one, a mechanical failure / unaddressed brake recall on an 1125 in 2008, and one a deer strike at dusk this past spring on my S2 where a deer jumped out of a ditch. Never even saw the animal, just felt the bike stop and I was airborne. Cagers? I have NEVER had a panic situation that I couldn't easily avoid or counter, because I SEE THEM COMING. It's a matter of situational awareness, plain and simple. I don't go off into ditches, I don't lock brakes up, I don't swerve into oncoming traffic. I just pay attention, and have been at it long enough that I see all the warning signs of a car about to change lanes into me, or pull through a stop sign, or turn left in front of me. It doesn't mean they don't do it once in a while...but I always have time and space to deal with it, because I saw it coming before it happened. Lottery luck has nothing to do with it - it's awareness, attentiveness, and skill. Period. You work at it, and you can reap the benefits. Hide behind a noisy muffler, and you'll never develop the skills. It's the lazy way out - that's my view of it, and I'm too old to change. |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 01:24 pm: |
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quote:The only problem is, your "supplemental" method is a massive disturbance to people who aren't even ON the road. Folks trying to sit in peace and read a paper, or simply enjoy the scenery on a nice weekend morning. It sounds like you try to mitigate that, but unfortunately you're in the minority there. And...it's unnecessary.
As I indicated in my last post, I do my best to mitigate the noise in populated areas. If I piss off a couple people in the foothills, then so be it--and believe it or not, I do short shift in the areas of known homes on my foothill route. Cagers might be pissed, but they probably won't kill me because of the noise. Can't say the same for people who are completely unaware of my presence.
The Barkers and race ECM combo completely transforms the entire torque curve of the 1125 and adds about 15 ponies up top. This is the ONLY reason I choose to go the loud exhaust route. Do I wish it was quieter? Sure. Would I go out of my way to put a loud exhaust on, just for the sake of making more noise? Hell no. But the fact is I have seen evidence of the byproduct of said noise on many occasions with cagers generally being more aware of my presence (pissed or not pissed), which is good for a motorcyclist's safety no matter how you want to cut it up.
My next bike will have 140+ HP in stock form, so modding the exhaust will not be necessary. The general exhaust note will have to do. However (returning to the original topic of this thread) electric stealth mode is not in my future....YMMV ! |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 01:30 pm: |
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quote:I'm guessing you are speaking of JamieC's nighttime event noted above, where the moron would have driven through a marching band - if I'm referring to the correct post, his input or lack thereof would have had no difference whatsoever. The only thing that would have changed it would be if Jamie himself had time to find an exit. Sometimes...accidents simply happen, and no amount of preparation would have changed it. Even Jamie acknowledges it.
I see you are acknowledging there IS a "shit-happens" element in riding a motorcycle on public roads. Doesn't this contradict your stance that you are 100% impervious to accidents because of your experience and honed defensive riding tactics?
I am confused. |
Ourdee
| | Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 01:46 pm: |
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"That may seem extreme"
One of my favorite features on XBs is the ability to wig wag the head lights. I have had people pull over thinking along the lines of there is a LEO. |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 01:46 pm: |
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My main issue with electrics is (well, twofold)...one, time to "refuel" goes from minutes to fill a tank, to hours to recharge a battery. Two, the whole "green" attitude. OK, so you aren't the end-user of fossil fuels...but you're not GREEN by any stretch. Electricity comes from....coal? Oil? Nuke? Depending where you are, MAYBE hydro? Upping the draw on the grid adds to fuel consumption, folks...it's a fact of electricity. Every time that meter spins and your bill goes up, there's something at the other end of the wire feeding it.
If I could refill it in 120 seconds like my ICE vehicles, I'd seriously consider it.
Technically...I KNOW how to fix it. Just need someone who can write and file the patent for me. Seriously.
Maybe that can be my "lottery ticket moment"  |
Ourdee
| | Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 01:56 pm: |
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Fastest way to fuel an ICE is to have fuel tanks that pop in and out of a rack in the vehicle. |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 01:56 pm: |
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I didn't say I'm impervious to accidents - nobody is.
What I'm saying is, a lot of accidents can be avoided. Thus far, for more than two decades...I've seen the avoidable ones coming, and avoided.
Unseen deer jumping out of a ditch at the wrong instant? Can't avoid those. Never saw the animal.
Brake recall not completed, and brake failure at a T intersection? Can't really prep for that one either, other than doing more service research on the (brand-new) vehicle before swinging a leg over it for a demo ride.
Cager turning left when they shouldn't? Can be avoided, if you're paying attention. If someone oncoming is in a left turn lane, I check to see if there are cars traveling with me, or if I'm alone. If I'm alone, I cover the brake, do a quick scan for an escape route, and lock eyes on the oncoming left-turn guy. My actions are based on what I see them doing.
Car rolls up to a stop sign, I'm on the through street. Forget the driver. Look at the wheels of the car. Cover brakes, scan for escape route, and if the wheels start rolling again (depending on distance to the car) either evade, hit the horn, or hit the brakes, or all. Generally, I've slowed enough they can run the stop sign before I even get there, because I saw them coming and slowed down.
Pull out to pass a car on multi-lane roadway. Pause the pass long enough to observe their driving habits (generally I've been doing this as long as they've been on my visual horizon). Erratic? Phone up? Jamming to tunes? Young/old? Condition of the car? All processes quickly to form a general stereotype image. As I pass, I look closer - what are they doing? Where are their hands? I generally ride along the yellow line so other lanes don't think "empty spot" and pull into my lane...but I keep aware of how much space I have remaining in my lane, to evade without crossing lines.
Not impervious.
Aware.
And, prepared.
I do MY job, because I know they won't do THEIRS. |
86129squids
| | Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 02:32 pm: |
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+1000.
I do a 50 mile round trip commute on Alcoa (AhhlKillya) Highway/Pellissippi Autobahn, then the sheer madness of getting to the middle of a giant chopping center. I make a point to observe everyone I can, especially those I pass. They get the horn if they're yakking or texting.
To top it all, within the last week there was a WRONG WAY accident on Pellissippi, killed one and badly injured 2. The prior week, I myself witnessed a northbound car coming up MY southbound lane, same highway. It could have been me. I've got to wonder now, was that the same moron?? Surely he went to jail the night he almost got me... but then, a week later, repeats the same route??
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Aesquire
| | Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 02:55 pm: |
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The deer startle reactions are as unpredictable as cagers.
Deer whistles are bunk. Skip that most are installed poorly, there is just no evidence, other than an old CHP endorsement/study??
While it's a 2 person sample and a bit anecdotal because of limited sample size, a buddy & I agree that deer react to studded snow tire noise. With a 50%? chance they run across the road instead of away.
The only factor that I seem to have control over is a higher chance of high beams causing a Jack light freeze reaction. Works best when they are standing in the road directly in the beam!
I've had multiple times when I've stopped, and yelled at deer, flashing the high/low switch to get them to move.
One thing that MIGHT work with caters is lighting out of the norm. Wig wag high/low and strobing high/low ( where legal ) MIGHT compensate for the lack of & confusion with range estimation, but that's marginally maybe better at identifying bikes. Anything is better than nothing, but there is a high percentage that won't ID a bike ( & thus turn right into your path, or right into you ) without complete mind reset. You'd have to wait until they park, approach & engage in actual conversation ( stranger danger! ) and introduce them to the existence of humans in bikes as a Thing. I suspect that would last until you were out of sight and be forgotten by the next time they turn the key after shopping.
I do run a Yellow headlight on Buttercup, my Reactor Yellow Cyclone. Yellow lights are legal in NY, but rare enough to MAYBE get an identification interrupt in cager brains. Maybe. At 55/110 watts, it's technically off road only, but I've ( usually responsibly & courteously ) used high power bulbs for decades without legal complaint. (Getting caught )
My buddy with his XS1100 says the yellow light is eye catching, triggers HIS alert system, and is "distinctive". However, he is a professional driver, former bike racer, and school bus driver/district rating examiner, and thus is VERY atypical as an example. How cagers react? Unknown, but it can't hurt.
The loud argument? I'm not sure how to balance "can't hurt" with " might cause panic swerve ". The legal and annoying factors are real, but how you weigh them?
I do know loud causes fatigue, a negative.
Otoh, I occasionally enjoy filling a valley with sound. Rude of me, but I never claimed maturity.
There's a stretch of 390 where South of a rest stop, sight lines are long, the curves are sweeping, and the "no U turn/cop radar traps" in the median are memorized. It's my choice for a "tuning check" where on average, once a year I run my Cyclone up to the limiter in top gear ( 135 ish ) Every time I do, I fill the valley with The Song Of Speed, then coast back down to legal 65 before I get in line of sight of the assumed radar trap. Sometimes there is a Trooper there, hair triggered by the noise, furious that I've played him. ( shaking his fist and laughing once ) But I honestly don't think anyone else in cars notices.
(Message edited by Aesquire on December 27, 2018) |
Ourdee
| | Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2018 - 03:03 pm: |
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Shopping centers, I try to take the Jeep.
Approaching intersections, I move from side to side in my lane more than once.
Tailgater, I wiggle the bars to make bike wobble.
Sitting at light last in line, I put on the emergency flasher and tap brakes on and off.(always leave bike in gear)
Oncoming car crowding or crossing line, I crowd line to see if they are paying attention or in a texting coma.(if far enough away)
Car in front not going on green, light engine rev.(like I started to go but couldn't) |
Ferris_von_bueller
| | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 01:54 pm: |
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That whole "Loud Pipes Saves Lives" is BULLSHIT and in 2018 everyone should realize that by now
I guess next you'll be telling us that walls don't work because it's possible to circumvent a wall. Hearing is one of your senses. Making a loud noise most certainly does alert people to your presence. I guess Seal Team Six should have flown into Pakistan blaring out Ride of the Valkyries.
(Message edited by ferris von bueller on December 30, 2018) |
Crusty
| | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 03:24 pm: |
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Hey; it scares the hell out of the Slopes... |
Ourdee
| | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 03:54 pm: |
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I guess Seal Team Six should have flown into Pakistan blaring out Ride of the Valkyries.
How do you know they didn't? |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 04:20 pm: |
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It's not all or nothing, it's different for You than for Me or for Joe Average.
I listen for traffic. I see bikes. I'm guessing that you do too. Joe Average? Some will, some won't.
Pipes aimed backwards, like on ALMOST EVERY bike made, don't alert the guy in front of you at speed as well as we might like. ( stock or trumpets ) It's Physics. The guy next to you? sure. Behind you? Sure, but it's too late to help.
And there is a percentage, hard to quantify, that won't notice anti missile flares, strobe lights, yellow headlights, yellow riding gear, and a reactor yellow Cyclone with race pipes, with the horn blaring, until they hear their bodywork tearing, and my body smashes their windshield. In a parking lot. While I'm parked. At Noon.
Will loud pipes annoy? Come on. You know that one. Yes. How much? How loud? How easily "triggered"? That is a variable.
At a certain point I get annoyed, and I love the Song Of Speed. When my neighbor runs his Hog up and down the street in his mating display of testosterone and thunder, I just smile. If some open piped honda 600 revs his engine next to me while parked in traffic, I'm not so happy. Frequency? Startle factor? Yep.
I'll skip the "triggered" who are going to think your noise is a sexual assault upon them. But by golly, they will complain to the police, and they will be the ones that get the police to bust you for loud pipes. Squeaky wheels. |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 04:20 pm: |
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No one would have heard it over the roaring scream of the twin turboshaft jet engines on the helicopters. |
Ourdee
| | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 05:12 pm: |
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Need to pipe it into the com. sets. I wouldn't want the Pakistanis to know they were coming. |
Torquehd
| | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 05:49 pm: |
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Pipes aimed backwards... don't alert the guy in front of you....
I've heard that every since I started getting into motorcycles. It's true in theory but everyone can hear the A-hole coming from 3 blocks away.
It seems like there are usually 2 opinions:
The folks who say "Loud pipes save lives" usually think that loud exhaust makes them invincible.
The folks who say "Loud pipes do not save lives" usually think that loud pipe are incapable of alerting other drivers to the motorcycle's location.
The truth is inbetween. Sure they help sometimes. Noise has probably saved a few. That's why electric vehicles require noise in some places. And contrary to theory, noise is usually not a "Ray" or a laser that is focused in only one direction.
I remember pushing a button at an exhibit in the Seattle Space Needle to hear a naration that was SUPER loud and I thought "surely this must be annoying everyone else". Then I realized I was directly under a satellite-dish-shaped sound cone and when I stepped out of the sound cone the noise level dropped severely. But, it was still audible. Exhaust may be loudest directly in line with the exit port, but noise travels in all directions and bounces off of everything it contacts.
However, you should always ride like no one else sees you. Situational awareness and tactical standoff will do more to protect the rider than stupidly annoying exhaust ever will. |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 06:47 pm: |
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Now that my Uly has a Drummer on it, my wife has lunch ready when I get home.
She starts when she first hears me. |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 09:18 pm: |
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>>>>>>I guess Seal Team Six should have flown into Pakistan blaring out Ride of the Valkyries
You do know how they arrived, right?
Precisely the reason I avoid these pissing matches.
I’m in the “it’s bullshit” camp .... but if you want to listen to tat crap every mile you ride and find some convoluted comfort in it .... knock yourself out. |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 09:21 pm: |
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Exhaust may be loudest directly in line with the exit port, but noise travels in all directions and bounces off of everything it contacts.
Which actually does LESS to alert drivers.
Let's ADD to the noise and confusion in the environment...that always helps...turn a driver into a panic-animal like a deer. Make it run...somewhere, but not knowing where or why.
Good call.
There are better - and equally effective - ways to "survive" your ride, that don't piss people off on top of it. But I guess those take work, and effort, on the part of the rider - so yea, let's take the easy way out and piss everyone off, and preach about it when someone calls you on it. |
Ourdee
| | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 09:29 pm: |
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You do know how they arrived, right?
Yes. That's what made the "Apocalypse Now" junk so funny. I'm the person that doesn't listen to the radio, etc. in the car. Unless I am very tired. |
Torquehd
| | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 09:56 pm: |
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There are better - and equally effective - ways to "survive" your ride, that don't piss people off on top of it.
I concur. But, as with those automatically flashing headlights, if they save one life, then I'll put up with them no matter how much I hate them and think they're mostly "snake oil".
And I disagree that a motorist hearing you before he/she sees you is going to induce automatic panic and confusion. Sometimes, maybe, but generally speaking, probably not.
A seatbelt may entrap one drowning driver for every thousand it saves. That doesn't mean the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
Here's the other side of the coin:
My 1125 has a barker exhaust. I find it too loud for comfort, and my wife and I use earplugs when I/we ride. I wish it was quieter, but that's the price you pay for increase in performance and reduction in weight. I also never "blip" the throttle. I guess i'm getting "old".
I've never ridden an electric motorcycle but I look forward to it. I've never heard a negative review from someone who's ridden one.
ICE motors will continue to improve, but will also continue to antiquate with time. At some point, there will be a tipping point where the juice outweighs the squeeze, in regards to gasoline.
I'm still waiting for a hybrid diesel-electric HD pickup to come out with 4 independent electric motors and a small diesel generator to charge the batteries. It will blow everything else out of the water. Powerstroke, Cummins, Duramax, will all be outmatched in terms of Torque, HP, MPG, and on/offroad capability. It will operate much like modern freight trains. It's going to be freaking SICK! Come on Detroit, get with it!!! My Duramax is almost paid off and I want something way more awesome! |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 11:03 pm: |
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Sometimes, maybe, but generally speaking, probably not.
Do YOU want to be the one who's there when a driver panics? Do you want a friend of yours to be there, when you panic a driver?
I was there this spring, when a deer panicked and jumped out of a ditch in front of me and my S2. I slid 310' down the road; the S2 went twice that far. Not a chance I'd want to take. I don't stay safe with "maybes" - and the only absolute in my life...is ME.
Flashing headlights don't piss people off when they're sitting on their porch having coffee on a peaceful Sunday morning. It is a "targeted" alert system. Same with bright colors. But nothing - NOTHING - can substitute for an attentive rider.
It's not their job to keep you safe.
It's YOUR job.
For the Barker? Put a quiet insert in it. My CR does just fine for me with the stock setup, but if you can make use of "more power" out of a Rotax...I'm sure you can also pay attention to the point that you don't have to hide behind noise.
And Detroit won't make a wholesale jump to electric, even if the tech IS out there. Big Oil has their hands too deep in the business to ever let that happen, until we actually start to run out of oil. Also, locomotive tech simply weighs too much to put on the road.
But again...I know how to fix range anxiety on electrics. Just need to get someone to file the patent for me. Anyone? I'm all for instant torque and true efficiency.... |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Monday, December 31, 2018 - 06:07 am: |
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Noise has a non zero positive effect on letting others know you are there. But not as much as some think.
Noise is not as directional as might be nice. Which way is that Hip hop pounding car? The one you can hear & see the body panels buzz? ( you think that driver can hear your Kerker? )
It's established to my satisfaction, by scientific studies, that I can have Grace Jones, naked, standing on my seat behind me, shooting Roman candles, and not get the people that turn left into you to see me.
YOU would see Ms. Jones, and enjoy, or not, depending on taste and hang ups.
Negative reactions to noise are non zero, too. And very widely by demographic and location.
Absolutes are poor arguments, because they are wrong. Except the absolute that idiots will drive right ( left, mostly ) into you. That is dead solid certain. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2019 - 05:00 pm: |
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Joe,
If it really is accurate that Big Oil is thwarting a large scale shift to electric vehicles, I've not seen any evidence of it.
The race is now on among major automobile manufacturers the world over to avoid becoming the next victims of a major market disruption by the likes of the Teslas and Zeroes of the world.
And here's the other thing: Power plants burn petroleum products just fine. Whatever fuel is cheaper is what will be employed. Just pray that the lying authoritarian leftist-globalist corrupt crony-corporatist greedheads don't achieve their goal of killing cheap energy. |
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