| Author | Message | ||
     Hootowl |
Leaning toward KTM or Yamaha. Haven't decided on 2 or 4 stroke. School me. Anyone selling? Edit: I weigh ~200 pounds. Do I need to respring the suspension? I've been on a dirt bike once. Once. I'm not going to be leaping from tall buildings any time soon. Is the stock suspension fine until I earn my cape? (Message edited by hootowl on March 19, 2018) | ||
| 86129squids |
I've been jonesing bad for a nice D/S. I like the KTM's, but have heard horror stories about simple stuff like changing oil... after growing up a Suzook kid, I've really come to appreciate Yammies. They've always had innovative engineering, even going back through the 70's and 80's with their street bikes- a WR 250/400 would be badaiss. Heck, someone here on CL is even selling an old BW model, very cool. Still like Suzuki's. Still miss my old RZ350... I even had an '87 FZ700. Both would haul A$$, but the RZ was built- like being shot out of God's own slingshot!!!  (Message edited by 86129squids on March 19, 2018) | ||
| Ourdee |
Old school 500 cc 4 stroke should lug your ole rump around. If you want silly power, go 2 smoke. | ||
| Etennuly |
Those 500 four strokers are a big nut for a rookie dirt squirter. That, in spite of road experience. If you are actually planning on riding trails, the problem with starting on a 500 thumper is speed into face plant. The question isn't if you might drop it, it is how fast do you want to be moving when it happens. I was always at or over 205 lbs when riding 250 four strokes in the woods. Most of them from mid 80' s up have decent suspension and enough torque to carry you right to the scene of the crash. It is common to fall down riding dirt. So get good knobby tires and full on gear. Unless you want to be powersliding, jumping bug stuff, or flying on dirt roads, a little more conservative choice like a 250 with good suspension will help preserve your body parts and expenses. My 86 XL250R will run 85 0n pavement, and will have enough power to go any where the 500 will go, albeit not as fast. | ||
| Ourdee |
The 500 will bring up the front end on just throttle though. | ||
| Tootal |
I still ride an 86 IT 200 Yamaha. It won't die! Hauls my 210 lb. arse around with no problem! | ||
| Nuts4mc |
KTM=Break My Wallet type experience, yes they are fantastic bikes , but you're just starting out... Two Strokes = Light, easy to fix, gotta mix gas and oil , kick start only ...older used ones will have a sacked out suspension ( in other words a good used one will still need some work) Four strokes = some weight issues when compared to a two stroke... some use Ti valves ...don't last too long...need a valve job before they will start easily...some have electric start ( a good thing after a series of whoops take all your energy) you want something that is fun and fits you... suggest a 250 Four stroke...it's lighter than an open class bike and being a 4 stroke it's reliable and has a predictable power band Dirt Rider mag does test/comparos here's a link...you can go back a couple of years and look for a older used bike that may be at the top of the "class" for that year...hth https://www.dirtrider.com/2016-dirt-rider-250f-mot ocross-shootout#page-4 | ||
| Ratbuell |
Most major brands today use electric start on 4 strokes. Even the comp/moto-x bikes, they just use lithium batteries to save weight. Yamaha offers a tuning app - yes, APP - so you can tweak the EFI. Most bikes now are EFI. 450 is overkill and WILL plant you in the dirt. Starting out, go for the smallest cc you can physically fit on. 110, 140...whatever doesn't make you look like a circus monkey riding it. The power is there, don't worry. 2 strokes, cut the cc in half - an 85 will be plenty for an adult who's a newbie. Word of caution - same advice I've been given. I'm a street rider. NEVER ridden dirt. I was told "don't". It can screw up street riding ability. Dirt-to-street is a common progression; street-to-dirt tends to have bad consequences. YMMV but that's what I've been told by multiple dirt riders, and combo-riders. | ||
| Hootowl |
Thanks, everyone, for the sage wisdom. The day I rode, I was on a gasgas 200 part of the time and a KTM 250 the other, both two strokes. Neither one had more power than I could handle. It was an 8 hour day of single track, trail, and fire road in the mountains of Oregon. I did really well, and, for the most part, was keeping up with the experienced riders. Even made it up a hill climb on the first try. So, while I'm no expert, I took to it well enough that I don't want to get a beginner bike, because I believe I'll outgrow it almost immediately. I've (obviously) not ridden the 450 4 strokes, but from what I've read, they are designed to replace the 250 2 strokes, since several countries are on the hunt to ban 2 strokes altogether. So I'm looking for a 450 4 stroke, or a 250 2 stroke. I'm leaning 2 stroke, just because they're lighter and simpler, but I do like 4 stoke power delivery, and electric start, so they're sill on the board. (I think) I've decided to go trail/enduro rather than motocross. Softer suspension, less focused on big air and top end power. A bit heavier, but not overly so. And, unless I get a steal on a KTM, I will likely not end up with one. From what I've read over the last few days, all the current offerings from all the manufacturers are great, and the only real choice you have to make is what color you want. I may ride red, if only for the reliability. Sure wish I could have had a Buell option. C'est la vie. | ||
| 86129squids |
Also- I've grown to LOVE the smell of a 2smoker. I can tell Yamalube from about anything else... and, there are CANDLES you can buy that smell like a 2 stroke!!! And, the sound of "ringdingding BRAAAPP" is just awesome. Kid behind me has a YZ85, makes my hair stand up to hear it. Just sayin'.  | ||
| Hootowl |
And of course, you guys are probably right...a 450 is way too much bike for me. I don't want to be the guy who simply has to learn to ride on a liter class superbike, but I don't think that's an apples to apples comparison in this case. Still, the Honda street legal 250s are about 6K out the door new. That's pretty tempting. But I think I'm going to go used. I'm just going to drop the thing anyway  | ||
| Nuts4mc |
buy used...you're correct you gonna drop it... try and find a XR400 (dirt only) or look into a street legal dual sport ( some early Yamaha 400s were street legal)...or a KLR650/DR650...a lot of used KLRs around...but watch the seat height...kinda "tippy" at a stop light...the DR has a lowered position on the suspension...I'm looking for a DR (30" inseam!) for trips out to the dez....hth | ||
| Hootowl |
Yeah, I had to slide off the KTM a bit to put my foot down. One nice thing about the rutted single track that day, was that I could put both feet down! | ||
| Sifo |
I used to be near a very respectable KTM dealer. I've seen him talk people who were just looking to do some dirt riding out of buy a bike from him. He point was pretty much that KTMs are aimed at racing. They need far less race prep than a similar dirt bike from most brands. If you are looking for a reliable trail bike, look elsewhere and you will be happier. | ||
| Etennuly |
I have had two 86 XL250R four strokers. One is in my shed now. When these bikes went to dual exhaust and carburetors on the single 250 the power became real and useable, the earlier ones sucked. Lacking power will plant you as fast as too much power, having less will cut down on injury time outs. They technologically should be much further along with FI and electronics. 450 will do a wheelie on just throttle. Yes. And go over backwards and plant you into stationary objects faster. Most tend to learn skills with time. Big power cuts the time out of the learning curve. As you have seen you can keep up trail riding even as a nube, on the smaller bike. Imagine how that would be with experience. | ||
| Hootowl |
The 250 two stroke I was on is similar in power to the 450 four stroke. I’m certainly not looking for a 500cc two stroke, if such a thing exists. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Find someone with an old RM-400 Suzuki. Ride it some and get the whole wanna dirtbike thing out of your system. There were 500 cc 2 stroke dirt bikes. KX-500 comes to mind. The CR-500 was a ball buster. Those things could roost fist sized rocks. If I just had to have a dirt bike, and I don't at my age. It would have to be a nasty, evil 2 stroke. Bear in mind that SOME modern 4 stroke dirt bikes have service intervals almost as short as some 2 strokes, and much costlier when you freshen up the top end. | ||
| Hootowl |
I've ridden bikes with mousetrap throttles. I'm also not a ham fisted teenager... I do appreciate the advice, but I really don't see myself on a 125. From what I've read, the enduro/trail bikes don't have the top end of the motocross models, have much more tractable power, are heavier, and more durable, since they don't have all those ultra light motocross parts on them. I still have an open mind, but right now, I'm looking at enduro/trail 250 two stroke, and 450 four stroke, and if I go four, maybe even get one with a license plate. | ||
| 86129squids |
"Find someone with an old RM-400 Suzuki. Ride it some and get the whole wanna dirtbike thing out of your system. There were 500 cc 2 stroke dirt bikes. KX-500 comes to mind. The CR-500 was a ball buster. Those things could roost fist sized rocks. If I just had to have a dirt bike, and I don't at my age. It would have to be a nasty, evil 2 stroke. Bear in mind that SOME modern 4 stroke dirt bikes have service intervals almost as short as some 2 strokes, and much costlier when you freshen up the top end." ROFLMAO!!!!! True, dat. The nature of a 2smoke vs a 4 stroke should be considered too. Gotta get the 2smoke "On Pipe", vs the 4 stroke just revving. Gotta get to know your red-headed 2smoker, but you'll love her regardless. What they've been able to do with latter day 4 strokers is amazing. Still, I gotta order some candles now. I was fidgeting with my RZ one day, and that bike had what was called YPVS: Yamaha Power Valve System. They figured out how to make a variable height exhaust port, depending on throttle position. It basically tripled the "sweet spot", the powerband. I disabled it and rode around a bit, wow. Since then I've been a big fan of Yamaha- they really look for clever engineering ideas, and use them. Somehow, out of nowhere, I saw one of these on TN70 east rolling through Hermitage TN... like seeing a Quatch walk in front of ya. Bucket list bike... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_RD500LC | ||
| Aesquire |
IMHO it's not that a 400+ cc dirt bike is "too much" for someone, it's that in the real world, they aren't much faster. Oh, quicker to hit the ruts upside down, sure. But throttle control is learned, not handed down from Above. The extra mass makes the big bikes harder to turn, harder to stop, and land on you harder. They are simply more work to ride, so the 250 is often faster around a motocross course. And in the woods. If you are lucky enough to have huge, relatively flat fields to play on, however, a 450 will get you to light speed quicker. And get you all the way up to plaid. With the requirement that you have the skill and caution not to hit anything stationary. On the highway? Bigger is better, just like on Euro big field courses. So the duel purpose bikes make a better case for size. | ||
| Etennuly |
On the street my XL250R is a little quicker getting to top end than my slightly tuned 492 cc Blast. They both top out at 85 mph. On the road the 250's skinny dirt bike frame tank profile feels exactly the same as the 500 cc dirt bikes. Wind will move either around on highway. Knobs suck on both. I have literally ripped the knobs off from a new rear knobby in one weekend dirt riding on the 500. Acceleration and everything race like was twice that of the 250. I ran thousands of dirt miles over many years on both size dirt bikes. I jumped the 250 higher, ran the 500 faster, did pretty much equal on steep hill climbs the 250 had to be in the right gear at the right rpms, the 500 did not care what gear, just spin it faster. The 500 wrecked at highway speeds in the woods, it accelerated that fast. Got hurt bad twice on the 500, once on the 250, even though I dropped it twice as often. 250 started much easier when hot. Both had 8 inches front 6 rear travel. I got racy with experience. You ride a 250, you hang on to a 500. On the 250 you pick lines and spots to use to get through, the 500 look further ahead, focus and steer with the throttle, makes its own lines. After years of youthful stupidity, the 250 could not keep up with me. I dropped it attempting more than it could do. The 500 dropped me when attempting more than I should do. Man it was fun riding it on the edge of fear for life. So many times it took me to the point where if I screwed up it would be certain death. My hands and arms would get so tired from hanging on to the bars, often I would not ride Sunday if I had done 8 hours on Saturday, just because I could not hold my arms up. That was in my early 20's. I do not recommend the 500 to any nube dirt squirter. | ||
| Ourdee |
I spent a lot of days in the desert on an XL250S with the throttle held open. Probably a good thing it was years later when I got the 500 version. My second XL250S clocked 10,000 miles before it was stolen at the 6 month mark, day after I paid it off. | ||
| Strokizator |
A lot depends on what you plan to do. Off road only I might lean 2 stroke. KTM 300 is electric start. Maintenance costs on 4 stroke MX bikes are high (if you find a used one cheap get ready for a rebuild). A 2 stroke "top end" service is an easy DIY affair. Money no object then go 4 stroke, they're easier to ride and you don't have to keep them on the pipe. Dual sport bikes are street legal but heavy. OK for fire roads but more difficult to ride in the rough stuff. Off-road bikes (vs MX bikes) are heavier and underpowered but run forever with not much maintenance. Figure on suspension work as your skills improve. |
