| Author | Message | ||
     Aesquire |
They are going for a full court press on this one. Trump hatred and cries that the NRA has blood on it's hands. Gun owners are Nazis who want your children dead. I'm well past Never Again and into F $/^ You. My mother sends me petitions from a false front "veterans against guns" group. How much you want to bet it's funded by Bloomberg and/or Soros? There's a long list of lies spread around. Military style assault weapons. A made up name for scary thing. It refers to anything you want it to, seriously. Until they purged the truth from Wikipedia the article listed the anti civil rights activist who invented the term and his intentions for it. Short form. "Assault Weapon" MEANS LIE. "These guns are only designed to kill as many people as possible". "Assault weapons aren't for hunting". Bite me. Lies. This technology is over a century old. If there are more mass murder suicides it has ZERO to do with the weapons available. Then the rest of every propaganda screed are lies as well with made up statistics and outright falsehoods. Bite my shiny metal butt. Will not cooperate with one millimeter more of dishonest infringement. | ||
| Shoggin |
Well then... don't hold back! Tell us how you really feel  | ||
| Aesquire |
Well..... I certainly don't recommend the violent overthrow of our legitimate elected government. Not at all. Uh uh. Not me. I've been praying I'll be gone when the next civil war happens. ( & in the Heinlein fictional 'verse we are due. Don't forget, Robert Heinlein was first to publish multiple story set in one 'verse called his Future History. All the subsequent tries owe him. Points to Tolkien, with the Hobbit, Ring trilogy and a few others. A limited example but worthy. ) & I always warn against assassination as a means of change. It never works. A Croatian kills an Arch Duke to get freedom for his homeland. We get WW1 and millions dead. Croatia gets nothing good. An Islamic terrorist kills Bobby Kennedy for revenge for Lebanon. We get Nixon and Lebanon gets crap. A communist defector kills JFK, we get LBJ, Vietnam and riots. You have to assume Lee Harvey Oswald was used by the KGB to make that last one a success. In any event, Bad Idea. That leaves lobbying and civil disobedience. And telling the truth about the lies of those who want you helpless. As I often say. There are three levels of government meddling in our lives. None of your business. None of your damned business. & No wonder you want to take our guns. | ||
| Aesquire |
Btw, do you think that there's going to be another sales rush to buy guns ahead of the anticipated ban on your rights? Should there be? | ||
| Shoggin |
I believe I'm a bit of a unconventional gun enthusiast. 3-4 high quality firearms is all I (usually) own at one time. A shotgun, a rifle with a scope, a pistol and a back-up pistol. The appropriate weapon is with me. Always. Is more... better? I only have 2 hands! If SHTF, I better know the ones I can carry very, very, well. Of course there are legitimate arguments for owning more than that, such as stashing them places, but 20 versions of AR-15's stuffed in one gun safe doesn't make sense to me? (Message edited by shoggin on February 18, 2018) (Message edited by shoggin on February 18, 2018) | ||
| Blake |
I actually made some headway with a friend who is a staunch hoplophobe. "No more guns" he says. He says he doesn't want to live in Fortress America, where everyone one needs a gun to use against everyone else. I said, people who carry don't do so because they are against others; they carry because they love people and want to defend them against malicious violent evildoers, a mom to defend her children, a wife to defend her husband, ... a teacher to defend her students. That got to him. He started asking about how allowing teachers to carry in school would work, gun requirements, and the same laundry list of concerns voiced about concealed carry in general. It was so nice to see. I mean this guy is major anti-gun hoplophobe. The key is transforming their preconceived negative image of people who carry. Framing the issue as one of deterrence rather than just defense seemed to work as well. "GUN FREE ZONE" is an open invitation for mass slaughter. We've implemented the solution and its proved effective, allow willing qualified teachers to carry concealed at school... just like they already do at so many public places. | ||
| Ourdee |
but 20 versions of AR-15's stuffed in one gun safe doesn't make sense to me? I carried 4 different versions of the 16 in the service depending on what I was tasked with. 20 is not enough. | ||
| Rick_a |
Whether it's two or twenty doesn't really matter. Irrelevant and inconsequential. | ||
| Ducbsa |
"You’re going to need a plan. A state-by-state, county-by-county, street-by-street, door-to-door plan. A detailed roadmap to abolition that involves the military and the police and a whole host of informants — and, probably, a hell of a lot of blood, too. Sure, the ACLU won’t like it, especially when you start going around poorer neighborhoods." The 4th amendment will also have to be addressed for the door to door searches to happen. Or the gun grabbers will secretly turn over the background check data to the FISA court to get blanket warrants. Very effective to take law-abiding citizens' guns, but not the scofflaw Chicago-style (Baltimore or choose your favorite Dem-run city) murderers' guns. http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/02/repe al-the-2nd-amendment-yes-please-try.php | ||
| Rick_a |
There's quite a fever pitch on this one. One of my Canadian family members through marriage has let his socialist-progressive friends know that I sell firearms. The supposedly compassionate and empathetic until we disagree with you politically people are literally the worst. No, I don't advocate for the death of children and I'm not complicit in such crimes. That such thinking is normalcy for these folks is insane. They have zero argument, just totally flawed and irrational emotional pleas. You could ban the evil AR-15 completely and destroy them all. That's not stopping anything. It's a backwards approach to what is a social and cultural issue, as well as a system ineffective in stopping known aggressors. These people want us to rely solely in the systems and institutions that have proven a failure time and time again. | ||
| Aesquire |
No, you can't ban the AR-15 and destroy them all. Nothing short of a Magic Spell can do that. In fact there are only 3 scenarios that rid the world of guns, and all are fantasy. 1. You go back in time and prevent gunpowder from being discovered. Over and over and over again. It's a lifetime job. AND it's in violation of the paradox laws of time travel. Remember the Grandfather's Paradox? You go back in time to kill your grandfather, your Father is never conceived, or born, nor are you. You don't exist, so you can't go back and kill your grandfather. Thus you live, and...... Plus the Universe without guns would be a very different world. I know. Without energy storage weapons ( guns use chemical storage ) the strong and violent win. Period. No Democracy, no equal rights, etc. But we might have Bows that Rock! ( and the "Bows Don't Kill People....." folk would still be in moral combat with the Ban Arrows! Arseholes. 2. You wave your Hogwarts Magic Wand, and make every gun go away. And you have to keep doing it, because we now know how to make them. So, like chips, we'll make more. ( I know I would. ) This also gives you the daily rape world where strong violent men take what they want. Whatta ya Gonna Do? Call the police? They're too busy protecting the rich people, because they need to stick together to keep the gangs from killing them. "Not so Bad without your gun? Huh, Pig?" 3. Alter Physics so that gunpowder doesn't work, in fact there's a cap on steam power and internal combustion doesn't work. Civilization falls. ( And yet, our metabolism still works ) There's a book series about this scenario. by S.M.Stirling first book is "Dies The Fire". The scenario is Earth Spirit magic, and civilization falls and it's all an excuse to model different groups of survivors after different historical models. ( Romans vs. Aztec! conflict that never happened! ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dies_the_Fire It may be possible for such a thing to happen, not because of magic, but because Physical laws may be local. Best explored by Poul Anderson in Brainwave. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_Wave So..... Magic spell, Time travel, Quantum alterations in the laws of nature. If there are more ways, they've never happened. Peasants have concealed daggers under the floor in their huts ever since we learned to sharpen rock. Criminals have always been able to get weapons, from corrupt police and military if no where else. See, Mexico. Banning guns doesn't work. Even the violent crime rates in Australia & England show that, no matter how much the politicians lie about it. | ||
| Aesquire |
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/02/gun_g rabbing_a_modest_proposal.html We could test this one out. | ||
| Aesquire |
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/02/why_d oes_the_government_fail_so_often_on_existing_gun_c ontrol_laws.html | ||
| Shoggin |
My post was relevant to Aesquires question in the post above it: "Btw, do you think that there's going to be another sales rush to buy guns ahead of the anticipated ban on your rights? Should there be?" For me, It doesn't matter whether the current political climate is perceived as gun friendly or not. I'm not going shopping for two dozen more 80% lowers because of fear. The one I have will still be fine and I'd rather stay mobile anyway. It's hard to evade the bad guys with a gun safe on your back. IMO, I don't believe the POTUS even possesses that much power anymore considering their limits and limited time on the job. Getting rid of guns will never happen. To Aesquires point above, it is impossible. My post was to point out that I have the ones I need. Besides there is nothing in my life that would prevent me from flying commercial, being a cop, or buying another gun. I don't fear them looking at me though my TV, or following the $100 bills in my pocket, because I have nothing to hide. I understand the 'Let them take an inch and they'll take a mile' rebuttal that is sure to come. I am in NO WAY a fan of additional controls or laws, but I would welcome a cognizant discussion on what to do about mental health in this country. (Message edited by shoggin on February 19, 2018) | ||
| Rick_a |
I don't think mental health is part of the equation when it comes to premeditated mass murder. That's a copout. We have a system in place that is inefficient and poorly implemented. The law enforcement response to these folks prior to the act is always just too late, or the threats were not taken seriously enough. Threatening mass murder is no joke, and should never be dismissed as such. Everyone is erroneously focused on the gun, and that's the least of the worries. The "do something" brigade wants a symbolic gesture that only happens to infringe upon our most basic and fundamental rights. (Message edited by Rick_a on February 19, 2018) | ||
| Blake |
This might be okay: https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/gun-control -republicans-consider-grvo/ This is fun to read. Did he miss anything? https://news.unclesamsmisguidedchildren.com/florid a-shooting-op-ed-refuse-lectured-anymore/ | ||
| Blake |
Rick, You have email via BadWeB messaging. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I said it before in one of these threads - we don't need gun control...we need PEOPLE CONTROL. It's called RESPECT, and it is GONE from today's society. Fix THAT, and we'll see a sharp decline in mass killings. It isn't the gun that makes these things happen - it's just the easiest tool for one of these cowards to grab. If there were no guns, they'd find another tool - a van on a sidewalk for instance. Or, they'd find an illegal gun (see: Chicago, Baltimore, et al.). This teacher (of the year, by the way) says it much better than I do. I won't link - I'll paste. Kelly Guthrie Raley February 15 at 5:25am · Eustis, FL · Okay, I’ll be the bad guy and say what no one else is brave enough to say, but wants to say. I’ll take all the criticism and attacks from everyone because you know what? I’m a TEACHER. I live this life daily. And I wouldn’t do anything else! But I also know daily I could end up in an active shooter situation. Until we, as a country, are willing to get serious and talk about mental health issues, lack of available care for the mental health issues, lack of discipline in the home, horrendous lack of parental support when the schools are trying to control horrible behavior at school (oh no! Not MY KID. What did YOU do to cause my kid to react that way?), lack of moral values, and yes, I’ll say it-violent video games that take away all sensitivity to ANY compassion for others’ lives, as well as reality TV that makes it commonplace for people to constantly scream up in each others’ faces and not value any other person but themselves, we will have a gun problem in school. Our kids don’t understand the permanency of death anymore!!! I grew up with guns. Everyone knows that. But you know what? My parents NEVER supported any bad behavior from me. I was terrified of doing something bad at school, as I would have not had a life until I corrected the problem and straightened my ass out. My parents invaded my life. They knew where I was ALL the time. They made me have a curfew. They made me wake them up when I got home. They made me respect their rules. They had full control of their house, and at any time could and would go through every inch of my bedroom, backpack, pockets, anything! Parents: it’s time to STEP UP! Be the parent that actually gives a crap! Be the annoying mom that pries and knows what your kid is doing. STOP being their friend. They have enough “friends” at school. Be their parent. Being the “cool mom” means not a damn thing when either your kid is dead or your kid kills other people because they were allowed to have their space and privacy in YOUR HOME. I’ll say it again. My home was filled with guns growing up. For God’s sake, my daddy was an 82nd Airborne Ranger who lost half his face serving our country. But you know what? I never dreamed of shooting anyone with his guns. I never dreamed of taking one! I was taught respect for human life, compassion, rules, common decency, and most of all, I was taught that until I moved out, my life and bedroom wasn’t mine...it was theirs. And they were going to know what was happening because they loved me and wanted the best for me. There. Say that I’m a horrible person. I didn’t bring up gun control, and I will refuse to debate it with anyone. This post wasn’t about gun control. This was me, loving the crap out of people and wanting the best for them. This was about my school babies and knowing that God created each one for greatness, and just wanting them to reach their futures. It’s about 20 years ago this year I started my teaching career. Violence was not this bad 20 years ago. Lack of compassion wasn’t this bad 20 years ago. And God knows 20 years ago that I wasn’t afraid daily to call a parent because I KNEW that 9 out of 10 would cuss me out, tell me to go to Hell, call the news on me, call the school board on me, or post all over FaceBook about me because I called to let them know what their child chose to do at school...because they are a NORMAL kid!!!!! Those 17 lives mattered. When are we going to take our own responsibility seriously? | ||
| Macbuell |
Parents need to PARENT. Stop letting kids grow up with TV, Video Games and Social Media. Stop taking the EASY way out. | ||
| Aesquire |
Shoggin, While I completely agree that life isn't a video game, and you can't pull endless weapons out of your bag of holding, ( Halo dealt with this, by allowing only 2 weapons total in inventory. ) The question really was, "in a hostile news environment, will there be a surge in gun sales?" The Obama years were record years for gun sales, due in large part that Obama kept giving speeches to Communist Dupes telling them he'd push for Gun Control, then going to the Public and announcing he wasn't going to take our guns. Since Barry is a Religiously Devout Liar, this told every one to go buy a gun before they were outlawed. ( only the NRA and Barry's losing the majority kept him from following through on that promise ) Then Donald was elected. Remington, and a lot of companies that put lots of money into making more and more guns to meet the demand, found themselves with low sales volume, and in financial difficulty. Ironic how feeling safe reduces the desire for most sheep to be armed. So I'm wondering if there will be a temporary sales blip. As to collecting, building an arsenal.... I totally understand the desire to have every variation on the 1903 Springfield, or the 1873 SAA, or Olde Frothingslosh Cans.... Doesn't matter, collecting is collecting. Cards, comics, whatever. Owning 73 AR's in various shades and configurations just because they are fun to build? Also understandable. The ceilings in my rooms as a kid always had an armada of aircraft models hanging from it. Depending on whim and age, deployed in chronological, speed, nation of origin, or dramatic effect order. ( That Spad had No Chance of catching that Ju-288, but like the P-84 diving through the formation of Fokkers.... it just looked cool ) When I started "collecting" guns it was with the focus of typical camp fire questions. "What 6 guns would you have if they were all you could have" or "What one gun would you have for every game animal on your continent?" or "what are the best examples of each type, on a budget, function over pretty?" So I'd have my attempt at a Scout Rifle, and a rifle sighted Turkey shotgun that'd I'd use for everything, pigeons to deer, etc. Almost all of which have been given away. ( which is great! I now have room for more weird choices. It also cuts down on the fighting after I'm gone. No one is going to be angry they didn't get the Whatever, when I pass away. They're angry Now. That's not a joke. It's funny, but not a joke. ) | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/02/19/cnns-gag liano-the-founders-could-not-envision-an-18-year-o ld-buying-a-weapon-of-war/ Actually you lying sack of pustulent ignorance, that is exactly what the founding fathers envisioned. Exactly. They expected a citizen to be able to buy and know how to use weapons of war. The most advanced and deadly weapons made on the planet. Americans were not expected to become expert swordsman. Artillery has been a specialist job since before ancient Greece. Then, or today, no one expected you to train hard to be a boxer or Kung Fu expert. But just as a British subject of the yeoman class was required by law to practice weekly with the long bow in the century leading up to Agincourt, the American Citizen, ( adult male ) was expected to know how to operate the most deadly weapon of the day. Remember the journalist who claimed to suffer PTSD from shooting a .22? I want to take him out to shoot a REAL MAN's gun. A Hawken .50 flint lock. He'd better bring spare panties. | ||
| Blake |
It would likely kill him. LOL Bad, bad omen. This is Dallas, Texas. Mayor pro-tem is telling the NRA to have their convention elsewhere. Amazing. Ignorance and hate reign supreme in the party of the KKK. http://abc13.com/society/dallas-mayor-urges-nra-to -find-a-new-home-for-their-convention-/3109066/ (Message edited by Blake on February 20, 2018) | ||
| Blake |
Not the narrative (facts) the Left will acknowledge:  | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
What the actual F?! Texas is turning into a commie hell-hole like my state? Where can I fantasize running to then? South Carolina? | ||
| Hootowl |
Big cities in TX are liberal, just like everywhere else. There's enough sane people elsewhere in the rest of the state to swing the vote. | ||
| Rick_a |
As I recently told a "liberal," if guns killed people everyone would be dead. We have a suicide and gang violence problem. As far as school shootings, we have a NICS system dependent on voluntary information and an FBI that has repeatedly failed despite tip offs, warnings, and active investigations. That and a legal "gun free" area without any active enforcement or defense mechanism is just a stupid idea. It's dependent on wishful thinking. That and morality cannot be legislated. | ||
| Blake |
What if... If tomorrow the "set to stun phaser" is invented, a compact weapon with a large capacity of rapid-fire, non-lethal, incapacitating "shots", two questions come to mind: 1) Would the anti-gun folks support qualified adults owning and carrying phasers including in schools? 2) Would the pro-gun folks support elimination of defensive firearms, 10+ round magazines, and "assault rifles"? | ||
| Hootowl |
They've sort of already invented the "set to stun" phaser. Stun guns exist. They are illegal to carry in some states. https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=GlaMWom FNYqYzwKfnIOABQ&q=legal+to+carry+stun+gun%3F&oq=le gal+to+carry+stun+gun%3F&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0j0i22i30k 1l9.1108.4241.0.4528.24.18.0.1.1.0.260.2672.1j7j6. 14.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..10.14.2445...0i131k1j0 i131i46k1j46i131k1j0i10k1.0.wmNR-i3jAcY Notably, these states aren't legal gun owner friendly either. You are not allowed to protect yourself in these places, apparently. | ||
| Aesquire |
1. I doubt it. 2. No. To begin with there's no such thing as a defensive firearm. Or a defensive weapon. I can kill people with a shield. I'm trained not to, as a matter of fact. Ever see that silly program where they'd argue "ninja vs. Pirate" etc. ? The Spartan shield was the second hardest hitting weapon after a metal studded six foot club, on their instrumented dummy. The SCA rules forbid shield strikes to reduce injury. And we use seven foot unpadded pole arms. Second. 10 rounds or 7 or 35. Doesn't matter. "High capacity magazines" are over a century old and have nothing to do with school shooting. Third. Assault Rifles, which have a real meaning, are machine guns and have been highly restricted since 1934. No legally owned Assault Rifles have been used in crime for well over 70 years. I spit on the anti-civil rights scum that you are quoting. | ||
| Aesquire |
Btw. Speaking of mythical sci-fi weapons that don't exist. ( "stun guns" are not Star Trek phasers ) The "nastiest" one ( unless you love the Sick Stick from Kickass 2 ) is the Tasp, conceived by author Larry Niven. It stimulates the pleasure center of the brain at a distance. Push a button and "joy!" Far more powerful than an orgasm. Drop your knife or handle bar and shudder in uncontrollable ecstasy. For as long as you hold the button down. He has a whole series of stories about direct stimulation addiction. Heroin? Bah! At best opioid drugs make it not hurt anymore, temporarily. ( VERY POWERFUL. I know. I've lived with chronic pain ) They are warning stories. The Tasp is fictional. Afaik. The implanted electrodes for self administered direct stimulation are available now. ( the subject of the stories ) I keep waiting for the news reports. So far very few or none have chosen to wreck their lives this way, or there's a cover up to try and prevent the practice. Still. Imagine a weapon that makes your enemy feel good. The problem is abuse. Drone mounted Tasps used to stop riots. Riots to get the police to use them. Even the Star Trek phaser has implications. Robbery by stunner is safe, easy & would become common. Why risk someone fighting back? Zap. Walk into the bank. Zap. Walk out with cash. Liquor store? ..... You can see the problem. |
