| Author | Message | ||
     Toro |
Anybody here into guitars? I have a 1956 Gibson in my little collection. Hard to imagine Gibson would have financial issues. http://www.ajc.com/news/national/gibson-guitar-com pany-maker-the-les-paul-facing-bankruptcy-after-11 6-years-business/OlaIEYdtLEv1rP92RvZFrM/ | ||
| Steveford |
Yep, a lot of debt coming due real soon. Too much diversification and a lot of really weird decisions on the guitar front over the past few years. Hope they make it. | ||
| Sifo |
That tends to happen when you are targeted as a political enemy by your government. Now The Gibson Guitar Raids Make Sense (Message edited by SIFO on February 18, 2018) | ||
| Hughlysses |
I wonder how much of an impact their dispute a few years ago with the government was? They were heavily fined for allegedly breaking the law concerning importing exotic hardwood (rosewood) from India. What’s crazy is it was the US government accusing them of breaking Indian law. The Indian government said “no, they didn’t break our laws” but the Feds persisted. There were claims that this was payback by the Obama administration for Gibson having donated to the Republicans in the previous election. I don’t know what the final outcome was. Edit- thanks for posting the link, Tom! (Message edited by Hughlysses on February 18, 2018) | ||
| Sifo |
My wife's best friend knows the owner of Gibson. They were absolutely convinced it was political. Same friend who's business was targeted by the IRS, that left their accountant and lawyers bewildered. They were a Gibson dealer, and active in the Republican party in Illinois. | ||
| Aesquire |
Some think the real problem is poor choices at guessing what the customer wants. But the political attack by the Obama administration is certainly a factor. So I ask the guitar guys. Did Gibson lose sight of the market? Didn't they go all electronic tuning and other price raising decisions? (Message edited by aesquire on February 18, 2018) | ||
| Court |
It’s a real shame ..... from 1965, when I got my first Melody Maker and Skylark amp, I was always a Gibson fan. Now I’ve got about 35 guitars and only a handful are Gibson’s. I bought 3 SGs, in anticipation of that horrendous self- tuner, and captured one of the 50th Anniversary SG 12 strings. Gibson has been an icon but, frankly, over the past several years, the quality has been pretty dicey. I had a Custom Songwriter Deluxe 12 string built and could never fall in love with it. I’ve gone mostly Taylor and Martun and am itching for an Olson. Sorry to hear about Gibson. | ||
| Hughlysses |
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| Steveford |
It is my understanding that the fine folks at Gibson were well aware that they should avoid that load of ebony as the seller was shady and it was grey market at best. Two other very large domestic guitar manufacturers took a look at the deal and said pass, Gibson was too greedy, bought it and got nabbed as the seller was on a watch list for being scummy. They then cried political hit job, poor little us, big mean government which is another way of saying we are unhappy we got caught and wish to blame someone else. Back in 2013 Henry J. (the CEO) declared that Gibson wasn't reallly a guitar company any longer, they were an entertainment company, The Gibson Family of Brands, and that's where the problem lies. I currently have 4 Gibsons and will probably buy another one this year but it will be a used electric with an ebony fret board. That cartoon pretty much sums it up. (Message edited by SteveFord on February 19, 2018) | ||
| Sifo |
It is my understanding that the fine folks at Gibson were well aware that they should avoid that load of ebony as the seller was shady and it was grey market at best. Any links to support that? Closest thing I can find is that the US laws have created grey area in what is illegal. Even to the point of making vintage instruments illegal simply because you can't document the wood used, even though the instrument was built before the laws. Since when do we make laws retroactive like that? https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2011/08/31/ 140090116/why-gibson-guitar-was-raided-by-the-just ice-department Then there's this... http://humanevents.com/2014/05/30/the-true-villain s-behind-the-gibson-guitar-raid-are-revealed/
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| Court |
Ohhhhh no ...... I own a 1965 Gibson. Hope they don’t come after me!! | ||
| Hootowl |
I once saw an old Gibson. Am I an accomplice after the fact? | ||
| Hughlysses |
Interesting article: https://reverb.com/news/reports-of-potential-gibso n-bankruptcy-circulate-over-weekend?utm_campaign=1 612019_bloggibsonbk&utm_medium=FB&utm_source=FB It sounds like the guitar business is fine; they have issues in other areas. | ||
| Shoggin |
Seems like the latest business model (ahem Harley cough cough). Finance your business with balloon payment loans, mis manage that money, and BK before they mature. Hmm, I wonder who really pays all those bills of these companies if they are allowed to BK??  Should be illegal to BK at all. If you re on the board, we are taking your house. | ||
| Steveford |
My information is from private correspondence with an attorney in Tennessee who is also a long time Gibson owner. The actual outcome of the ebony raid was never made public and I don't know what the upshot was other than Gibson still only uses ebony on very limited run guitars. I do not know if there is a ban in place or if they're too cheap to buy it from Taylor or Martin or whomever. Gibson also made much to-do about it being some sort of a SWAT team type military raid by the evil governmental goons terrifying the peaceful workforce but the only photo I saw showed a bunch of guys with clip boards and pens in their hands, taking inventory. I have no information about the later rosewood raid but they eventually got at least some of the wood back and made a big production out of it by putting out some ugly beige guitars called Government Issue. Sad to see a great company go downhill like they have over the past five or six years. They've made some real blunders. On a personal note, having dealt with the USF&W Department with the CITIS regulations when I was breeding Indian Pythons I found them to be just great to get along with - really helpful and friendly. No problems at all. | ||
| Sifo |
Well it's hard to argue about a source who owns a guitar. Obviously an insider. My wife's friend owns a guitar shop in IL. They have a number of plaques on the wall from Gibson for being the top retailer in the Eastern region various years. That basically covers everything East of the Mississippi. The see the Gibson folks regularly at trade shows. Have for decades. You seriously question a SWAT team was involved. It's well covered by pretty reliable sources in the press. I've never heard of the government denying this. You seem to be in denial of basic facts. I'm not sure why. Because the SWAT team didn't take selfies while pointing guns at the receptionist? Now, I don't play guitar, so I really have little to say about Gibson's products over the years. I do know, from my wife's friend that the guitar industry is a mess, with huge pressures on top companies to cut costs due to Chinese imports. There is also the issue of kids simply not having an interest in learning to play guitar. I've heard for many years how new guitar students, when asked what inspires them, what style they want to learn, simply have not clue. The answers used to be Jimi Hendrix, The Beatles, Rolling Stones, The Who, Eric Clapton, etc. They simply don't have guitar heroes anymore. No doubt, some things like their self tuning guitar was aimed at trying to attract young kids to what is becoming a dying instrument. Dumb it down where you can. If you really think having your business shut down by the Feds multiple times, along with the legal fees, and fines they wound up paying to make it go away didn't contribute, you are smoking some pretty good stuff. Pretty good read here... https://www.forbes.com/sites/billfrezza/2014/05/26 /lumber-union-protectionists-incited-swat-raid-on- my-factory-says-gibson-guitar-ceo/#3da618fc2434 Forbes tends to be a pretty straight shooter in their reporting. |
