| Author | Message | ||
     Ratbuell |
Well. Condolences to anyone here from California, looks like your governor has decided to make the whole damned state a "Sanctuary" state, despite federal law concerning illegal immigrants. I get the debate. I get not wanting to split families. I get the Republican side of things, too - illegals commit a VAST number of violent crimes here in this country. But I also understand there are those who don't, and there are those who are simply hard working folks. So...instead of this attitude of "illegals are above the law, you're not allowed to touch them"...why don't we MAKE THEM BECOME CITIZENS?? Seriously. They're hardworking. They're non-violent. They're non-criminal. So...make them go through the LEGAL PROCESS to become citizens. Harvest their tax dollars just like any other American citizen. Make them EARN the benefits of living in America, just like the rest of us do. For those who ARE criminal/violent? Well...they won't make it through citizenship filters in the first place so we can get rid of 'em. | ||
| Torquehd |
How will they not make it through filters when they're totally undocumented? How do you run the history of a vehicle with no VIN? | ||
| Orman1649 |
I don't know why this is hard for anyone. All you have to do is answer one simple question. I don't care about your skin color, religion, family status, or anything else. Is entering the United States of America by bypassing the proper channels illegal? This question includes staying past authorized dates on your visa or w/e other paperwork allowed them to be here. Every single one of these people broke the law and should be deported. They can try again the correct way. | ||
| Redra65k |
if the left believes every gun owner in america is bad ... why can't the right believe every illegal alien is bad ... oh wait there is a completely logical reason for this and the difference is fundamental i own a gun legally (within federal and state rules ) i'm not a criminal if you illegal entered this country you are a criminal .... i don't give two shits about breaking up your family much like no one would give two shits about breaking up mine if i performed an illegal act with my firearm and went to prison for it grow up ... or better yet pick any other country in the world and see if they give a shit about your family or if you are a good person when you cross their borders and squat in their country and try to take advantage of their health care / social security / or take their jobs or any other of their citizens let california succeed from the union... they can have puerto rico too or better yet let's sell them to mexico | ||
| Ratbuell |
My presumption is, when applying for citizenship, there is a background check through the parent nation. Theoretically, if they are a criminal back home...it'll pop. And if they're a criminal here, we've got the records (presuming we caught them in the first place). A vehicle with no VIN gets scrapped. Same fate could be used for an illegal with no history..."go home, do not pass go, do not collect $200...and do not come back". | ||
| Tootal |
Don't worry, give Global Warming a few years and they'll be under water! According to them anyway! | ||
| Ourdee |
I have not met a legal immigrant to the United States that has made it through all the hoops to gain citizenship that I did not like. Some of their relatives, meh. But, them I like. I never turn down an invitation by them to be at their ceremony to be given citizenship. It is a great honor. Now for all those living large illegally, In the U.S. when you commit a crime, any crime that results in the death of another human being, the perpetrator of the crime is also charged with murder. So, you illegally enter the U.S. and steal welfare, medical, etc. and a U.S. citizen dies because of the non availability of said service, YOU have became a murderer. It ain't personal. Earn citizenship or get out. | ||
| Torquehd |
the US: " background check through the parent nation" Parent nation: "yeah, they're all the best citizens ever you should totally keep them!" | ||
| Aesquire |
This is a complex subject because there are rich men who want cheap labor, like Disney and Google, D.C. staffers, meat packing industry, etc. Plus the Party desire for a new plantation of voters to augment, then replace, black Americans. So we have decades of racist immigration policy ( written by Ted Kennedy in case you forgot ) & years of failed amnesty experiments. ( didn't accomplish stated goals ) Then the Obama regime declared they were not going to enforce the law since it did not please xir majesty, & deliberately settled children across the continent to pump start a new wave of illegal voters. For humanitarian reasons of course. There's also a lot of total bull coming from the right like Ann Coulter's libel of Mexican character. It's not as simple as we'd like. Darn it. But, sure, follow the law and send them back. Can we pay for shipping 45 million people? | ||
| Sifo |
.why don't we MAKE THEM BECOME CITIZENS?? Many of them don't want to be US citizens. Many want Mexico to take over our lands. It is literally a slow invasion, that we are helping with. Splitting families? No need. The family can go back to Mexico too. Really not a problem in my view. The politicians who are helping to create this mess should be excluded from the solution. They've already shown they have ulterior motives. | ||
| Torquehd |
It is literally a slow invasion, that we are helping with. If my choices are Dos Equis/Tacos/Mariachi OR Halal goat kabobs/female genital mutilation/arabic call to prayer, I'll import Mexicans all day long. I'm not for sanctuary, for either ethnic/religious group (that means, stop importing people with no background check, no matter who they are). ONCE we get the borders LOCKED down, then i'm fine with forcing everyone here to EITHER move back OR pay taxes. But not BEFORE the border is locked. That's just inviting the horde. | ||
| Macbuell |
First, let me be clear, I am not for illegal immigration or amnesty or anything like that. That said, don't they already pay taxes? If they are employed, wherever that may be, they have to fill out a W4 just like everyone else. They probably just use a bogus SS#. So at the end of every pay cycle taxes are deducted. Just like with you and me. But since they don't have a SS# they cannot make a tax return so Uncle Sam just keeps those dollars. So all the illegals that are working normal jobs, some for very large corporations, are paying taxes. Is it at the correct rate? Who knows. The only scenarios where they would not be paying taxes is if they are being paid cash for services rendered and they don't get a 1099 and don't file taxes or if they are involved in criminal enterprises. I imagine there is a percentage that are day laborers and are getting paid cash with no 1099. I see them on street corners near where I live waiting for someone to come pick them up for some work that day. But if that is the case the individual paying them under the table is also breaking the law. But this wouldn't apply to corporations including restaurants, retail, large farm producers, etc. You'd likely be talking about small business such as landscapers, things like that, or just some Joe Shmo that needs some help with some yard work. | ||
| Ratbuell |
You're missing the point of why orchards and farms and vineyards hire cheap immigrant labor. You honestly think the employer files tax forms for illegals?? | ||
| Pwnzor |
Can we pay for shipping 45 million people? We're already paying their medical bills, etc... So, yes. Yes, I think we can. | ||
| Torquehd |
I've always assumed illegals get paid illegaly. Under the table, with no taxes on the transfer of money. | ||
| Redra65k |
i don't care if they pay taxes or not ... it's a stupid argument ... i pay taxes on my ammunition it doesn't allow me to break the law because of it ... focus on the first problem .... "ILLEGAL" immigration nothing else matters after that... what's the point in having a policy if we keep making excuses or circumventing it because it hurts some snowflakes feelings or it benefits some billionaire ... i don;t really give crap about either | ||
| Redra65k |
the rules will never apply when it's less painful to get forgiveness than ask permission | ||
| Macbuell |
For corporations there is a money trail. A paper trail. They have to document their employees and who they are paying and for what. If not they can get in trouble and be subject to fines or more. There is a reason companies have independent auditors that look at the books every year. The Employee Tax part is done through the W4 form and then reporting back to the state and federal agencies detailing who you paid, how much, what deductions were made, etc. This is when they also pay the FICA and Medicaid matches. Heck, I had to do it for my parents 3 employee business when in I was in college. They need Name, Address and Social to set up the employee. Now, what they do not need to do is verify the information provided by the employee is correct. Think about the maid at the Holiday Inn hotel or the dishwasher at the local Chili's. Same thing with McDonalds and other fast food joints. Those corporations are not going to risk the legal hassles of paying someone under the table. But they need the labor. So they take that individuals information and pay them just like they would any other employee. They don't know, and don't care, that the SS# is bogus. They just file the information as required. I would imagine more illegals are employed and paying taxes that way then are working as day laborers under the table. There are certainly small business owners that pay for labor under the table but I don't think it is the majority of the illegals. That percentage is just a guess on my part though. I have no idea what the real percentage is. In my line I work I do know that there is a significant percentage of employees that fail identity verification within the restaurant, retail, and hospitality. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I would imagine more illegals are employed and paying taxes that way then are working as day laborers under the table. If that were the case, then why are so many Americans (politicians and companies and localities) fighting for the "rights of the illegals"? I'm willing to bet it's not out of the goodness of their hearts; there's wallets involved. | ||
| Ebutch |
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| Ebutch |
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| Macbuell |
Ratbuell ... simple ... votes. They would be a huge voting block if given citizenship and the right to vote, legally. I have no doubt that some vote illegally now. Also, if they do kick the illegals out of the country, those companies lose that employee base. So it is in their interest for the illegals to be granted citizenship or at least permanent residency. And like I said, I don't know what percentage are employed in normal jobs vs the under the table stuff. I'm just saying I think it is more than you think it is. | ||
| Ratbuell |
But they don't want to make them citizens. Pay attention to all the blathering in the media. There's not a WORD spoken about "make them citizens". It's all about "you can't touch them / you aren't allowed to ask their citizenship status". There is ZERO interest in "making them citizens". My question is...WHY? That was the point of my whole first post - WHY don't they push for these illegals to take the damn test and become LEGAL? But...they DON'T. All they want to do is, keep ICE, LEOs, and the Feds from being able to touch anyone who's not here legally. NOTHING is said about changing their status to "legal", or making them bonafide citizens who pay taxes, and actually contribute to the money they're sucking out of our medical and school and welfare systems. WHY? | ||
| Macbuell |
You haven't been paying attention. A Path to Citizenship is almost always part of the conversation when it comes to illegals. Most recently connected to the DACA illegals. If you are not hearing a lot about a path to citizenship now it is because they know that Trump is in the Whitehouse and they are just trying to keep their potential voting block from being deported. And then, when a Democrat is back in the Whitehouse, or when they have majorities in the House and/or Senate, you will hear about the Path to Citizenship again. They talked about it all the time when Obama was President. | ||
| Ebutch |
They use them 4 rent-a-slave (cheap labor) then make rest of us pay welfare for them and rent housing Slum lords $$$ welfare sell food to them$$$ welfare stamps.they make a lot of money catering to them on our Dime!   It's a liberal industry. | ||
| Aesquire |
Far more illegals pay taxes, and yes, if they have fake SS numbers, they don't get SS 40 years later. They do get their tax refunds like anyone else. What the total in and out on the taxes vs. benefits is arguable, but it's not a positive number. Not too many illegal immigrant millionaires. But a few. There was a time when the illegals were exploited by evil men and companies run by evil men, paid below minimum wages, or at least below market wages, under threat of deportation.. Today, in a much more enlightened America, Legal immigrants are exploited by companies run by evil men, paid below market wages, under threat of deportation when they get fired. ( Disney ) The illegals are still exploited the old way. Evil isn't limited. Moral of the story? Evil men are the problem, not the illegals who come here to get exploited by them. They are the Symptom. We need to jail the men who exploit illegals. The managers, CEO's and politicians, both parties. Round them up in the middle of the night, and... deport them. How about to Antarctica? Just dropped off on the ice. C-130 opens the back doors, and they drop off the pallet with "supplies" chained to all the prisoner's ankles, while taxiing, and it drags them out. The supplies will be bags of oranges for them to sell each other. If you want to pay for the program, just put up cameras and put it all live on pay per view. I have some great ideas for plots. Sometime the supply crate has canned food but no can opener. Or just Hot Sauce. | ||
| H0gwash |
I have very little practical knowledge of immigration and of police enforcement, so can't effectively defend the whole Sanctuary state thing. I'm learning a lot as I follow the national conversation. It does seem the local police are reluctant to do the work of the Federals for them, for free. Since half of them return, it seems to be an expense the police prefer to avoid. I do have a Mexican relative (born in tiny village Juchipila, Zacatecas) who married into the family before I met Mike. If you've got a legal channel, citizenship is quite quick, I understand it only took Mario a year or so to be legal and Mike held a big party in his honor. FWIW he was the relative who would never show up at Christmas because he was working. He was always, always working. It does seem to me that Macbuell's suspicions are at least close. At a factory I once worked at I was told by Luis that "This factory is nothing compared to crossing a desert for 3 days without food or water" yet there was an HR file for him in the front office with a Xerox of a drivers license and tax forms, so it does seem the employers are turning a blind eye when it benefits them. Luis was a super dilligent worker but was unhappy and got DUIS every now and then. It seems to me that if you don't have citizenship within a couple years, you're probably a "desert adventure hiker," who is probably laying really, really low nowadays. If they were approached by customs with the choice to become a citizen or get out, I think they'd rather stay. | ||
| Aesquire |
The tragedy is that people wait years to come here legally. The illegal exploitation programs hurt honest people all over the world, not just the many killed here by drunks and murdered by criminals the politicians won't deal with because they win by vote fraud. Illegal immigrants also hurt citizens of their own ethnic groups. You came here legal, you obey the law, but the criminals at the Exploitation Corporation won't pay you good wages because they can hire a guy who looks like you for less, so get lost. Yeah, that's real. | ||
| Macbuell |
I worked with a very nice women from England. It took her 10 years to become a citizen legally. She was very proud and I was very happy for her. The problem I have with this whole mess is the notion we should wave a magic wand and grant citizenship to people that broke the law when many people that have followed the law and proper procedures for years are still waiting. | ||
| Sifo |
So if an illegal is working "legally" with a stolen SS#, it's pretty easy to avoid, at least, the income tax part. Simply max out on your declared dependents, and you will pretty much not pay any income tax. If they are not filing a tax return, the dependents will never be checked. Can we pay for shipping 45 million people? Yes. You take away the incentive to be here illegally, and many will self-deport. |
