| Author | Message | ||
     Tootal |
Hopefully Froggy is watching or someone with the answer. I noticed that Lance has stock ecm's that are blank and must be programmed by the dealer. If I have my ecm downloaded onto ecmspy could I not transfer that program onto an empty factory ecm? I'm trying to help someone out that might have a bad ecm and not a lot of cash. | ||
| Greg_e |
That is a good question. It will work if it has the basic bootloader parts and I'm not sure but I expect the dealer has no lower level access than ECMspy. I'm expecting that the operational code is in place, but the fuel and ignition tables are missing. Might need to ask Lance for an official word on this, he probably has ECMspy and could flash something for a test or at least confirm what we are thinking. | ||
| Tootal |
Exactly what I was thinking. Lance said they needed to have the bike's VIN in order to download the proper program. My program should work for any other 06 Uly that's stock of course. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I wonder if IDS would be willing to sell you a blank? I'm pretty sure they are willing to test them for you. | ||
| Greg_e |
I think they need the VIN in order to find the correct file in the database, I don't think the VIN is part of the code that we can pull out or put back in. I wonder if they would be willing to program them for an extra fee before putting in the box to ship. I wonder if Al would know, didn't he sell stock ECMs when he had the business open? | ||
| Froggy |
My understanding, which could be entirely wrong, is that they are totally blank with no firmware when they are sitting at the dealer. They plug it into your bike, and type in the VIN and Harley's computer then knows whether you are XB9/12/1125, then installs the appropriate program and firmware. My understanding is that as they don't have the firmware even installed, you couldn't use ECMspy to do the initial programming as that is a different layer. | ||
| Tootal |
I think you're right Froggy. My neighbor, who is an electrical engineer, explained pretty much what you said. Lance did say that the dealer uses the VIN to download the proper maps etc. It would make sense that they installed the firmware at the same time. My neighbor explained that software is like dust in the wind and they can't charge you for it but they can charge you to install it! Thanks, I just thought I'd ask those more in tuned to the world of 0's and 1's. | ||
| Greg_e |
Hmmmm.. Doesn't make sense as the PIC inside these requires some form of code in order for the serial link to work, these are old enough that they don't really have a boot loader, and the dealer has no access to the JTAG or in circuit programming pins. Is the new ECM cheap enough that programming at the dealer is cost effective, or is buying a used ECM the thing that you are going to suggest? Pretty sure you can see where I'm going. If you buy the new ECM, and try to program and it works, then no trip to the dealer. If it doesn't work you get to pay the dealer. What I don't know is how much you get to pay the dealer to program this thing. Like to think it was only about $75, but I bet it is much more. | ||
| Ducbsa |
I had to replace my ECM in 2011 or so and even bought it at St Paul Harley. They said it couldn't be programmed on the bench and had to be on the bike then. I trailered it to their sister shop, Wild Prairie (closer to my house) and had it done. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I seem to remember hearing that ECM's are simply blank, like a floppy disk. Same physical part from XB9/12 to (I believe) 1125, to make stocking/ordering the parts easier and cheaper. Why make four parts, when one will suffice? It's all in the programming, if I remember correctly from my dealer days... As to "birthing" one into a viable unit...I don't know what's out there at the consumer level to start from scratch. Perhaps a note to someone at EBR, to see what's pre-installed on their programmable Race units (which, as I recall, will NOT work with ECMspy...perhaps this is why?) | ||
| Ourdee |
IDS sells ECMs programmed for $300. That's a lot of loot when you are short on funds. The programmable ECMs start at $630 with license for PCM. As much as I'd like to go down that slippery slope, I'll have to hold off. Every time I have ponied up for one of their ECMs I have NOT been disappointed. | ||
| Tootal |
Right now I have a race unit for stock exhaust on his bike. I did use ecmspy to set tps. It seems to work however anything else I would not do. It seems to have fixed the main issue of shutting down when hot. He rode for an hour and the only issue was the idle jumped up to 2000 at a stop light a couple of times. This could be that the idle rose above 1100 rpm once it got hot which will cause that. I told him to lower the rpm at idle to 950 to 1000 and ride for 3 hours and make sure it doesn't die before we conclude his stock ecm is bad. It's raining here again for 2 more days so hopefully this weekend we will know more. I just wondered if he picked up a new blank ecm that we could put it in his bike and I could download my program from my 06 into his 06 using ecmspy. I was hoping that was an option. From what everybody's saying that's not an option. | ||
| Ourdee |
I just checked my spares, but I don't have any ECMs in there. It was worth a try. Sorry. | ||
| 86129squids |
... glad I ride a 1977 BMW R75/7. Ran into a buddy who rides a 1988 HD, some kind of FL today. We shot the shiznot, remarked about each other's bikes, and he mentioned he'd just got his bike out for the first time... had a bad battery. I went into the DG store, came out, and he needed a push start. We goterduuun. I was alarmed, as I brought the bike around, that he had no rear brake. I was glad to help a fellow biker, and glad to get back on my own. | ||
| Airbozo |
" My neighbor explained that software is like dust in the wind and they can't charge you for it but they can charge you to install it! " While this may be true for certain "Open Source" software, it is not true in the case of proprietary commercial software which the firmware on the ECM most likely is, otherwise we would all have access to it. For example, a company cannot charge you for Linux software, but they can charge a "reasonable" amount for the media or delivery of that software as well as whatever they want for "support" (the installation or support). Microsoft however, can and does charge you for their software and the delivery method as well as a support plan. (Since Apple's OS is based on FreeBSD, they are under similar licensing restrictions as Linux distributions, but the FreeBSD model is different). There are even people who argue that changing the software on the ECM is a violation of the licensing terms for that device. Simply modifying a fuel map can be seen as changing the software. The original maker of the ECM firmware (or ECM itself) could even argue that ECMspy and ECMDroid violate their patents by reverse engineering the device to allow reprogramming. The EPA has tried to use this argument in the past, but since they are not the manufacturer, I am not sure it would stick. | ||
| Glitch |
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