| Author | Message | ||
     Mnscrounger |
There are all of these smaller players each trying to make a genuine, mass produced AMERICAN motorcycle, ie: Cleveland Cycle, 47Moto, EBR, Motus and even Zero. (I’m not counting the boutique bike makers like Arch, or the chopper builders. I don’t think they really want mass production volume, they just seem to want exclusivity, and the price premium it comes with.) I had a thought about all these smaller, ”real”, motorcycle companies struggling for sales. (Disclaimer: I know nothing about the motorcycle business beyond being a happy consumer. While I understand small business models, and manufacturing, having worked for them in the past, I have never been a CEO. And last, I do not ever expect to have enough money become an expert on high finance.) Now here’s my pitch… Since none of them currently build bikes that compete head to head with each other, in style or purpose, I wonder if they could form some sort of consortium, and share their respective dealer networks. If you were a dealer for one, you now could sell and service them all, with access to OEM support, parts, and warranty claim reimbursement. It could open the opportunity for contracted sharing of engineering capabilities, production capacity, and part manufacture sourcing. It also might give them more negotiating leverage when contracting for part manufacturing, if the vendor knew they might get more work from another consortium partner too. The OEM manufacturers would probably have to require less commitment from the individual dealers, as all brands are each a certain amount of risk for them,( but as a trade-off, the consortium partners net more dealer commitments overall, and broader brand exposure). I liked the idea, floated at last year’s HC by the EBR leadership, of a tiered dealer network. The more buy in the dealer provided, the bigger the dealer price margin on the product. Perhaps a model like that would work for them. I know it wouldn't be perfect, and in some markets might put dealers next door to each other competing directly on the same brands. I'm also aware that a BAD dealer can ruin a brand in a given market, but I’m sure real experts could figure those solutions out. I really want for them all to succeed, and reinvigorate the US motorcycle manufacturing industry. We've had too few choices for far too long. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Isn't that basically how General Motors started out? Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac, Oldsmobile and Pontiac were all separate companies that formed GM. It'd be interesting to know the history behind that and see if it could work for this. | ||
| Mnscrounger |
According to my old scavenged copy of the "Encyclopedia of American Business History and Biography, Automobile Industry 1920 to 1980" GM was founded in 1909 by a fella named William Durant through the acquiring of auto companies on shaky financial ground. After Durant lost control to the bank ( in 1910) he went on to found Chevrolet, and then came back to GM in 1916 when his company Chevrolet aquired GM. Here is an interesting quote to illustrate how tough a new marque has it to survive. "Of the nearly 1000 companies which entered the business prior to 1927, fewer than 200 were viable long enough to produce a commercially suitable vehicle." Good heavens, the odds are against our heroes from the start. How and why these guys can persevere in that environment is amazing. | ||
| Alfau |
Buell failed because they didn't focus on quality. If you own a Buell you'll know they are shit. Metallurgy is not in the vocabulary, neither is reliability. Quality was tested by the fat professor putting along in mid winter at breakneck speeds. | ||
| Falloutnl |
Well, core components seem to sort of hold up relatively well... I do run into a lot of issues of the more peripheral kind though. And every time you fix one and think you're done, something else pops up. It's exhausting, but then the bikes are so much damn fun, it's worth it, for now. | ||
| Hootowl |
Please sell your piece of shit Buell, Alf, and leave the rest of us in peace. | ||
| Airbozo |
Alf, Maybe your negative attitude affects everything around you. My 2000 S3T has been relatively trouble free for 30k plus miles. Couldn't say that about my Honda, Suzuki or Ducati. I'll send you a ride report for the next 30k if it would make you feel better. Or worse. | ||
| Ourdee |
Alf, Humor works when there is some truth in a statement. When there is no truth it is called maliciousness. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I know it's just a stupid troll for attention. But I'll bite anyway. You can try and poke at Buell for getting 100HP out of a 40HP motor if you want... but it comes off kind of lame to anyone that owns and rides one, and understands what Buell achieved. Kind of like complaining that a 1978 Porsche 911 is noisy. All it really shows is that you just don't get it. | ||
| 86129squids |
Pretty sad, Alf. Next time you have a nice day, THEN try posting. Bad day, just try barking at yourself in the mirror. | ||
| Hughlysses |
So, back to the original subject- how about a consortium of Motus, EBR, Zero, Cleveland, and 47moto? They could rule the motorcycle world! | ||
| 86129squids |
   Thinking outside the box for a new biz model! Me likey! I'm not much of a pie in the sky kinda guy, but... | ||
| Hughlysses |
Here's another possible participant: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/bad-idea-of- the-week-excelsior-henderson-revival | ||
| Mnscrounger |
I think EH would be a brand I'd categorize as "boutique" for the very reasons your linked article stated. OTOH what the heck. It wouldn't (at least in its last iteration) compete directly with with any of the other odd ducks in the flock. The primary difference is EH is currently nothing more than a vision,(or a memory). The other brands I mentioned either actually have products on the market, or manufacturing intent and commitments already in place. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Yea, an EH relaunch seems like a crazy idea at this point, although they did have a very interesting re-start ~10 years ago. There's a guy on ADVrider that owns a couple of them; he's coincidentally also a Buell enthusiast. For cruisers, they were very interesting bikes and seemed to be well-engineered. The guy on ADVrider posted several articles about the bikes and company plus a restoration thread on one he owned. Apparently the stories of the company owners squandering money were overblown; I think they just got in way over their heads. Yea, the other companies at least have current products with little to no overlap. There would seem to be a lot of advantages in them working together as far as design staffs, manufacturing, marketing, and dealer networks. | ||
| Court |
>>>>>>they did have a very interesting re-start ~10 years ago. Hahaha..... when the high flying Hanson brothers snookered investors, the state and some gullible customers. I still have the moment that Erik and I ran to them, late at night, in Daytona and they badmourged him. They didn't have a motorcycle yet.... just a circus of leather, chrome and lace "lifestyle Accesories". Erik: "I did it the old fashioned way ..... I built the motorcycle first." The Hanson's were not, generally, held in high regard. Although ..... I thank them for putting all the Playboy Playmates on my floor of the hotel. | ||
| Airbozo |
"Although ..... I thank them for putting all the Playboy Playmates on my floor of the hotel."  | ||
| Alfau |
Sorry, I was truly trying to be constructive. Bit like Trump trying to fix broken America. People don't like the truth, they prefer fake news. I do have a mental disorder thanx to USA. https://youtu.be/o_l4Ab5FRwM | ||
| Alfau |
Feeling confronted for person with PTSD, In a military context, is the disorder. Thing is, being edict-ed to the adrenaline that comes in a confrontation, the bigger the confrontation the bigger thrill. killing is apparently a real hoot. Socially:- I am an F. It is a reactionary thing so back off. I just smile when dimwits want to challenge. Get more nibbles from some than others. What does that say? (Message edited by alfau on February 17, 2017) | ||
| Alfau |
a circus of leather  this is how it works.} | ||
| Alfau |
The pot calling the kettle black. The leather will last longer than the brand. The only thing you can rely on is the failure of support. | ||
| Alfau |
 | ||
| Reepicheep |
It says you are willing to be an ass to get attention, and that different people will respond to that in different ways. Or perhaps more charitably (and probably more accurately), it suggests you are unable to keep yourself from being an ass to get attention. | ||
| Oldfartnbuell |
Sadly, very true in this case, Reep. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Only way that I could see the alliance of all of those companies working out is if they used shared products to get costs lower. Otherwise I dont see them going in together being an answer for them or dealers. They offer a lot of very different bikes, more than likely a dealer isnt going to want to buy one or two of each model from each make, plus all of the parts and accessories. Instead they'd just choose the once they really care about. Id love to see some little guys get some life, especially EBR, but I dont have a lot of faith for these companies unless they do something EXTREMELY well and put money into the right places (advertising, being one) | ||
| Hughlysses |
Only way that I could see the alliance of all of those companies working out is if they used shared products to get costs lower. That would definitely be a big help in reducing costs. I believe Hero and EBR were already headed in that direction before the world class CF in 2014. Hero appeared to be using the same taillight assembly that's on the 1190RX and SX on some of their new bikes at the time, and one of them had a fairing/windshield/headlight design that was very similar, if not identical to the 1190RS. If Hero had bought these parts for a bazillion inexpensive small motorcycles they would have been dirt cheap to use on EBR products. | ||
| Hootowl |
There's lots of money to be saved by sharing hr, legal, eh&s, IT, compliance, etc. it's not just parts. | ||
| Alfau |
I'm mentally ill reamasheep. | ||
| Alfau |
What's your excuse for owning a BUELL? | ||
| Alfau |
Buell/ EBR/ebr2, failed so many times for the same reason. cheap unreliable component parts.} |
