| Author | Message | ||
     86129squids |
OK, here's the scenario: I had a timing chain replaced on my old 92 Nissan back on January 12, and several weeks ago it began making noises- rattling like a diesel. Took it back to the shop last week, they stethoscoped it, determined something was wrong in the timing assembly (duh.) They called today, said the job was redone, parts under warranty, BUT they're wanting to charge me half the labor! So- yes it's been more than 90 days, but I've barely driven that truck 10K miles... I generally take my Beemer to run errands, only using the truck for bad weather. I've called the two shops that I've used the most over the years (they didn't do this job, grrr) and they're of the opinion that the warranty claim against the defective part should cover the labor for the shop. Things are tight, I really don't want to give up the $$$ they're asking for RE-DOING the job. I believe I'll sit on this and wait until tomorrow to head there... in the meantime, any good $.02 youn's might have could add up to save me almost $300. I'm Pi$$ed! PLEASE discuss. | ||
| Hootowl |
If the part had a 90 day warranty, and it has been more than 90 days, they're under no obligation to fix it. Splitting the labor seems like a good deal. If the part has a longer warranty, check your bill of sale for the work they did. It should spell out the warranty. Labor warranty is for the quality of the labor. Did the part fail because it was installed improperly? If not, the labor warranty isn't going to kick in. They may be doing you a huge favor by offering to split the labor cost. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
We only warranty what we ship. Not the labor to install, paint or anything else. Splitting the cost of labor doesn't sound like a bad deal to me. | ||
| Hughlysses |
It does seem pretty unlikely that a timing chain (which would normally last well north of 100k miles) would fail on its own in that short a time. If it did, it seems reasonable for them to charge half the labor. I would definitely ask them to show me exactly WTF happened. | ||
| 86129squids |
Fair enough, good points. I'm hoping to negotiate down as best I can from the number they gave me. It's craptastic that I've had to deal AGAIN at less than 10K miles with a job that's generally known to only need being done around 100K to 120K on these motors... Vern had a good point, talked with him this morning. A big problem with any job nowadays is that the parts quality can easily not be the best... obviously something like a timing chain replacement logically you'd want the best stuff going in. Now I gotta wonder. Also- I do remember going on a test drive with the kid who did the job, and he remarked that mine was the first of that type Nissan motor he'd done. IIRC he had called a buddy to oversee things... it ran like a champ, actually seemed he may have advanced the timing a degree or something. And, of course he no longer works there...  Please continue with the pennies in da fountain, friends...  | ||
| Hootowl |
"I would definitely ask them to show me exactly WTF happened." Yes. Did a guide fail due to a defect, or did it fail because it was installed improperly? If it's the latter, that should be covered under labor warranty. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Splitting the labor seems like a deal to me. Of course, if you overpaid for the labor to begin with, it can be a tough pill to swallow. | ||
| Thumper74 |
A reputable shop SHOULD warranty both parts and labor for a minimum of 6 months or 6,000 miles. Preferably 12/12. If outside that, half labor is a smoking deal. 10,000 miles out of a timing chain is bogus | ||
| Ratbuell |
As noted above,though...if you start with a cheap component, you get cheap results. Not knowing what part was put in there, this is total speculation...but if the shop went with the "budget" chain, they (and you) got what you paid for. Pony up for a name brand, or OEM, part? Then you're looking at a better life expectancy (and a better warranty on the component). Sometimes the best price isn't the best deal. Comes down to "how many times do you want to mess with it before you're done?" I'll use NAPA brakes, radiators, external stuff like that. Engine internals? OEM, or better (Melling, Wiseco, Cometic, ARP, etc). If it's a pain in the a$$ to get to it...I only want to mess with it one time. | ||
| Zac4mac |
I feel your pain. I have already spent 4k on a Buick for a new motor. with more to come when I see it again. Barely (few hundred miles) out of limited warranty. At least I can afford it. Hope you can too. Z | ||
| Thumper74 |
All of the above! If they did 'best practice' with the parts, ie. new timing chains, sprockets, tensioners, etc. As a tech and doing things on the side, I've been burnt many times by the cheapest parts. I try to explain to people the 'good', 'better', 'best', side of things when it comes to parts.\ If they won't budge, it comes down to the vender. Most major suppliers will do a warranty claim for a good customer (shop) as the supplier should stand behind bad products. (Message edited by Thumper74 on June 23, 2016) | ||
| Etennuly |
Being in the transportation repair industry for over 40 years, 24 of it being the owner manager of my own shop, I can tell you of only one instance where-in I was paid for labor on a re-repair for a faulty part. That one time was when an Asian company was promoting aftermarket body parts through and insurance company back in the 1980's. Even then, I think the insurance company ate the labor re-payment as they were the people promoting the aftermarket company's parts use. This was just before the aftermarket certification boards were set up. I have never had a problem getting a warranted part replaced per the warranty if it failed. They always had to be within the time limitations. Often I had to prove it's failure before replacement happened, but the parts would be replaced. None of these companies ever paid me back for my additional labor. We used to buy manufacturer's 'on the assembly line quality' parts. They were the only companies making them. The industry would likely not have gone to the aftermarket but for the manufacturers price gouging the buyers of their parts. Insurance companies, end use customers, fleet owners, pretty much anyone footing the bill for repairs was complaining and began a huge campaign of price shopping that forced the aftermarket into existence during the 80's. On a price estimate, labor is labor, a set price per hour for an expected amount of time to do the job. Most shops use the same set of books for determining this price. So you get an estimate for say a 10 hour job at $80.00 per hour. Say it takes a price of $250.00 for a good "life time" guaranteed parts list. Now you have $1050.00 plus incidental materials, things like cleaners, sealers, shop supplies and the like, so add $50.00, so the estimate is now at $1100.00. Then add your local tax. OK, you have now spent a half hour of a shop managers time just to look into what it would cost to do your repair. Now is when you leave your reputable repair shop to go price shopping. Next guy up, same amount of time for manager, same labor and expense amounts, but you tell him you want it done cheaper. Where can this money come from you ask? Well you cannot take it from the technician, or he just won't do it. Expenses are real and set, taxes, your stuck there too. All that is left is that $250 for good life time warranted parts. So you forced the shop, who likely wants another job in their shop, to go online for mystery parts that 'fit' your price criteria. They normally buy that $250 worth of parts, that cost them $200(they have to make a little profit to stay in business) through their normal parts channels, now at your urging they are going to shop for parts from unknown sources for say $65.00, with $10.00 shipping. Now you forced the shop to pay $75.00 un-returnable, non-warranted parts so you could save maybe $60.00 on the repair on your end. They will usually do it because you are saving a buck and forcing their hand to where they make an extra $65.00 saving you money. Then your world falls apart months or years later when your $60.00 savings that made you so happy comes back to bite you in the ass. At this point you blame the shop owner, the techs, the parts guys and a whole list of others because you feel like you got ripped off. I speak in defense of business owners because we are actually trying to help our customers when we write that initial price. Ask me to cheapen it, it can be done. But it will be done at YOUR expense. I am surprised a shop in this scenario is willing to do the labor over at half price. He is not obligated to except for it being a good business practice. I tell a lot of customers no, and let them walk away if they talk to me about having to do a job too inexpensively. Especially if doing that will compromise quality, unless it is a job I feel I could do for no profit to help a friend or someone in dire need. I do a good amount of insurance repair work. I have so many people come to my office wanting to save their deductible payment amounts. They often just don't understand that is a contract they signed with their insurance company, not a free shot at my business profits. I once had a lady come in with a $1600.00 repair that has a $500.00 deductible. It needed $800.00 in parts and materials, and the balance in labor and taxes. Remove sales tax made it $1472, parts -800 =$672. Take our her dream $500.00 = $172, pay my tech -$300 negative $128. To that we then add payroll taxes and rent/insurances/ office help, you can see where I end up. It was sad but funny, she did not get it when I laid this all out for her. So I turned off the lights, shuffled her out the door, locked the shop doors and headed for my truck without saying another word to her. I left her standing by my door. She then asked "what are you doing?" I said I'm going home. She said "you cannot do that it is the middle of the day,(Saturday) why would you go home". I told her it is simple, "I cannot afford to be here. According to your math it will cost me about $200.00 out of my pocket to do this job in the sweltering heat and dirt of this shop. I can go home and lay in air conditioning on my couch for the same amount of time and spend nothing!" This is my opinion from my view point and I'm sticking with it! This rant is now over.  | ||
| Fast1075 |
Bravo!  | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
How long did it take you to type all that Vern? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Doing my own deep repairs on bikes and cars, now that I am good enough not to just make a hack job of it (usually  ), all of a sudden $80 to $100 per hour for a *good* mechanic doesn't feel so expensive. In fact it almost makes me feel a little bad like I'm exploiting somebody (by the time I do the math on consumables, overhead, tools, etc). Modern cars and bikes are pretty awesome. But that comes with a cost, when you have to fix them, parts and labor are complex and difficult (which means expensive). | ||
| Tootal |
How long did it take you to type all that Vern? And how much money could you have made in all the time you wasted typing that!!  | ||
| Hootowl |
I feel you Bill. My TDI needs a new clutch. I could do it myself, but the dealer only wants a grand, parts included. I'm not sure it's worth the time, frustration, and bloody knuckles to do it myself. | ||
| 86129squids |
"How long did it take you to type all that Vern? And how much money could you have made in all the time you wasted typing that?" LOL He wasted his time talking to me on the phone about it yesterday, too. My biggest problem with it all now is this: My Dominican sweetie is getting wound up... Heaven help any target of her anger! We'll be going to deal with the situation tomorrow. Although the truck was ready yesterday, I feel it best to "lay back and take aim"... and I DO appreciate all youn's good advice. Please continue! And thanks again, friends. | ||
| Etennuly |
"How long did it take you to type all that Vern? And how much money could you have made in all the time you wasted typing that?" I typed that in about eight minutes. Edited for grammar and spelling in about two more. I was taking a twenty minute break, so I still had time for a snack and a bathroom trip. My employee was in the shop painting so $? eh.....some. But he couldn't let me work on my projects in there anyways with painting and all going on. Besides I am old and fat. I need not only breaks into the air conditioning now and again, but afternoon naps of a 15 minute duration as they are great for maintaining good mental health(  run what you brung) and controlling my attitude, as in meditating for pain(not medicating). I did not have to come up with those thoughts. Those specific ones rattle around close to the front of my mind most of the time I am in my office anyways. Makes it easy to type out what you don't have to think about. | ||
| Hootowl |
"Makes it easy to type out what you don't have to think about." I think boobs that's a motorcycles perfectly reasonable position. | ||
| Etennuly |
Is that boobs as in boobies? I like boobies! What were we talking about? Dammit! Don't do that! I get easily distracted. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Distracted? OHHHHHH Shiny!!!! | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
 | ||
| Etennuly |
Oooooohhhhhh BACON!!!! POV boobies bacon!!!! . Shit.....I hate it when my eyes do that!!! | ||
| Ourdee |
DOH!!! Now I'm trying to finger out how to make a Bacon sandwich with a doughnut for bread. I actually missed the lower part of the picture till I looked back up at the pic after typing the first sentence. You dirty rats. | ||
| 86129squids |
I think those are your shaved knees, Mark. Hey, where's that GIF?!   |
