| Author | Message | ||
     Slaughter |
Going through a FAL phase:     | ||
| Macbuell |
Rick, I know you like building them but CZ-USA has a slick new 9mm carbine ... the Scorpion EVO 3 S1 pistol. I have my eye on one myself. It has a 7 inch barrel and you can add an arm brace and I don't think you need the SBR stamp. | ||
| Rick_a |
Slaughter, those are nice. I really like the FAL, just not enough to buy one. A local store offered a deal on a DSA I almost couldn't refuse years ago. Macbuell, the Scorpion EVO is cool, but I'm not a fan. It's a little too plasticky and cheesy for me. I like CZ, but it's my least favorite of their products. I'd pay double to get the Sig MPX. I also already have a 7" gun.  20140306_111829 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr It really doesn't get any more entertaining than that. I'm looking for MP5K sized...and it'll probably cost me a trust and tax stamp.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIKOW67K5RQ Whether built or bought I can't seem get under $1500 for what I'm trying to do. I like the idea of an old school 9mm AR-15, but it may not be the best option. | ||
| Rick_a |
Test fired/zero'd the 22 today. It zero'd quickly, though it was a little confusing as the red dot was going one way and the irons another. I was surprised to see that the cheap red dot has click adjustments. It functioned flawlessly. Now I just need a couple more mags and get the wife and kid behind it. | ||
| Blake |
This ammo may give new life to the 9mm carbine and SBR: Underwood Ammo 9mm Luger +P+ with Lehigh Defense Extreme Defender 90 gr solid copper bullets: https://www.underwoodammo.com/9mm-luger-p-90-grain -xtreme-defender/ http://youtu.be/ClJcJ8LQFbQ | ||
| Blake |
Steve, Man that's nice. Not sure the rifle can live up to the tile floor though. | ||
| Aesquire |
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| Rick_a |
That's one thing I'm missing...swords. This one for looks:  This one for works:  | ||
| Rick_a |
But yeah, I'm sure if the gun control ideal of no guns on the planet, which would effectively bring us a couple ages back, would make the world more civilized. Apparently being ran over, blown up, set on fire, poisoned, hacked up or beaten to death are good alternatives. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
So what is the pros/cons of a FAL vs an AR10? I have been wanting an AR10 a good amount of time. Everything is cost-prohibitive for me right now but perhaps an 80% build? | ||
| Chauly |
We would have swords, "they" would still have guns. Dontcha know? | ||
| Aesquire |
If you want a picture of a world with no guns.... I suggest the opening scene in Vikings or Prophets etc. A brutal bloody battle scene of exhausted butchery. AR-10 strictly speaking is the Armalite models. Copyright. Broadly... several companies do a 7.62x51 AR version. Some in .308 compatible caliber like .243 or 7mm-08. Different magazines and parts not interchangeable. Pros are easier to mount optics if equipped with a rail. Excellent accuracy if barrel free floated. Cons are dirty if using direct impingment, proprietary parts if using gas rod. FAL's Pros .... lots of surplus versions. You can buy new in a variety of styles. Rugged reliable a bit heavy...but lighter than a M1A. Cons 2 different magazine types, inch & metric. Not easy to firmly mount an optical sight. Both qualify as "black rifles" and thus are lied about by the racist anti rights faction of authoritarian would be Sturm troopers. Operating systems more than a century old ( gas operating self loading ) claimed to be modern threats to society. ... propaganda and prejudice. The 7.62x51 AR variations are many. Pick a version you like.... It's a fast evolving field and some very good choices out there. I leave it to others for brand & model recommendations. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Ah thanks for that. I thought AR10 was a standardized thing that could be built up like legos. | ||
| Aesquire |
Not as much as the .223 AR clones. The receiver has to be longer in the mag well, to fit the longer rounds, but there are a few different magazine types. Modified M1A/M-14 mags, (with an extra cut slot to match the mag release ) FAL mags, ( Bushmaster used to make FAL mag rifles but not for years & I don't know any others. .... please correct me ) Knight mags, ( pricey but reliable and used by multiple makers, & in the military supply chain ) & proprietary mags... not a good choice when the company goes out of business or is bought like Bushmaster. Various bolt designs and buffer tube dimensions. Do the research before buying. To be fair the AR-15 Market has commercial and mil spec buffer tubes ( slightly different diameter not interchangeable) & a huge number of "improved" versions with proprietary parts. And that doesn't even address the completely different incompatible piston systems. ... because i don't want a flame war.  & piston guns aren't really AR's. ( FLAME ON!!) | ||
| Hootowl |
"could be built up like legos" They can, but you have to use your teeth to field strip them sometimes  | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Just don't leave the parts on the stairs for dad to walk on, right? | ||
| Rick_a |
Unlike AR-15's there no commonality between manufacturers of AR 308 style rifles. The original AR-10 was made by Fairchild Aircraft/Armalite division and despite being a solid rifle once fully developed had limited success, mostly small orders to foreign nations. The AR-15 was based on a scaled down AR-10. The first AR-10B models introduced in 1995 by a company that purchased the rights to the Armalite name was not based on the original AR-10 but on a scaled up AR-15. Pretty weird stuff. Knights, Armalite, S&W, RRA, Windham (former Bushmaster employees), LWRC, DPMS, Daniel Defense, Remington, Ruger and others make AR 308's all in their own way with different styles, patterns, and nuances. Most take the MagPul Pmag (SR-25 pattern) which is becoming the defacto standard. RRA can use a proprietary or FAL magazine. The early Armalites use a proprietary mag while later versions use an SR-25 style magazine. DPMS just came out with a "G2" that mimics the proportions of the AR-15. My favorite is the S&W M&P10 as it most closely follows the original concept of a compact, lightweight, powerful, accurate battle rifle. Most others are making a target/sniper/SPR/DMR rifle out of them thus making them heavy and often quite large. It's fairly easy to swap triggers, grips, stocks, and sight options, but forends/rails can be a pain, swapping buffer systems can take some homework, and you're usually stuck with sending guns back to the manufacturer or relying on factory parts for anything action related. Forend/rail options can require some figuring as well. I think it's best to stick with whichever gun works best for you out of the box. The prices can vary from $850 for a base DPMS to 5k for a Knights. Other alternatives are the PTR-91's (HK/CETME clone) and Springfield M1A's. They're all pretty cool. I like my PSL. It's accurate, reliable, smooth shooting, ergonomic, and was a bargain at the time.  It got shortened a few inches with a different muzzle device. | ||
| Macbuell |
There was a poll done in a gun web site polling a about 25 gun experts ranging from self defense experts to special forces to competition shooters. They were all asked to chose between 9MM or .45 for self defense. All of them except one chose 9MM. And the reason they chose 9MM was almost universal. They said that recent advancements in bullet technology has silenced any issues and concerns around the stopping power of the 9mm round. They also said it has been proven effective in the real world over and over. The big reason, besides the effectiveness of the round, was the ease of use (accuracy, shot placement, quick follow up shots) and the number of rounds that you can carry that can keep you in the fight longer. So, I think anyone who has anything negative to say about the 9mm round, at this point, might be just a little behind on things. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I like a 1911 better. But if my life was on the line, I'd grab an M9 with a 18 round magazine of 9mm. And use it just long enough to get to an AK with a 25 round magazine. Which I would use to run away as fast as I can or hide in the deepest corner while I wait for real help to arrive. | ||
| Rick_a |
The context is important. All those guys are trainers, competition shooters, and instructors that put a lot of rounds down range...and most were veterans in the field (basically, not spring chickens). All this sprung from the FBI stating (basically) that 9mm is adequate, as well as easier and cheaper for their people to train with. All the technology that improves 9mm improves other calibers. The question posed was essentially what they'd use if only one caliber...another question posed in another poll was what the favorite handgun caliber was. Yet another asked about favorite carry pistols...that one met with some scrutiny. To me it comes down to what I shoot best. That to me is a big gun in 45acp...but I'm not shooting 30K+ rounds a year... I like 9, 40, and 45. That's the best answer. All work well with the guns made for them. They're just regular people that shoot a lot more than you and I and train others to shoot and make stuff and stuff. I don't take any of that as gospel...I take it in the context of their backgrounds and fields. The carry choices were no different than what most people choose, and some of the sponsored shooters unsurprisingly carry whatever their respective manufacturer produces. | ||
| Torquehd |
Shot placement really is the key... having said that, I'd much rather carry a larger caliber. Sure a prius would get me to work, but there's just something right about a man driving a man's truck. (Yes I just compared a 9 mil to a Prius). I really like my double-stack FNX 40. 14+1. Didn't know there was an 18 rd mag for the m9. I like the geometry of the m9, plus the double/single action with external hammer and decock. My FNX has all of those things, and recoil is comparable to a 9 mm. It's also safe to carry with the hammer locked to the rear and the safety on, just like a 1911. I'm very happy with it. Just need to get a conceal holster that will accommodate the tac light that i need to install. | ||
| Rick_a |
The wife looked at an SBR I was checking our and called it "her gun." I then explained the steps to own one, and she says, "no thanks." Looks like I'm alone on this one... An 80% lower may be in my future. The rest may take a while... This looks like a nice kit, albeit expensive:  CMMG has a fully built SBR that would work with some trimming:  A man can dream. JSE has a cheap upper that would make a good basis for modification as well.  It's ugly, but I could work with it. I've gotta stop looking at this stuff...it's gonna cost me money. | ||
| Rick_a |
I've said it before, but in handguns I like little or lightweight guns in small calibers, and bigger heavier guns in bigger calibers. It's a waste to have a big bulky gun in a smaller caliber, me thinks. If it's gonna be big/heavy, may as well have some horsepower behind it. | ||
| Ourdee |
I like my pistols to be pistols and my rifles to be rifles. Most of my defense needs can be met with one pistol. If I could only have one gun it would be a Ruger Super Redhawk 7.5" barrel in .454 Casull. Concealment is not much harder than with a 1911 for me. I prefer to carry the 1911 at 3 o'clock outside the waste band. The Redhawk in a shoulder rig with the tip tucked inside the waste band is easier to hide. It weighs a little bit but it's like having nitrous hooked to a V8 crammed into your Prius. Need to practice, just throw some Long Colt into it. Or, a thousand wax bullets ($25) and 209 shotgun primers are pretty cheap. I have brass that can be loaded by hand without any tools, and work in my speed loaders. Big fun. | ||
| Rick_a |
One pistol is in a rifle caliber so it only makes sense to have a rifle in a pistol caliber. If I could only have one gun it'd be my trusty 5" 1911 in 45. It does anything I need a gun for. | ||
| Thumper74 |
I scored a SIG 1911 RCS today for a super deal! | ||
| Rick_a |
If it was under $950 I'd say you did well. Those are nice pistols. I'm thinking about maybe going old school with a Colt SMG type build. Maybe.  | ||
| Hootowl |
http://dailycaller.com/2014/12/22/anti-gun-psa-enc ourages-kids-to-steal-parents-guns-and-turn-them-i n-to-teachers-video/ Isn't it a crime to encourage others to commit crimes? | ||
| Thumper74 |
Nevermind the crime part, they're encouraging a kid that's 'not comfortable with a gun in the house', which means they probably aren't trained in it to handle it safely. Good job libtard. | ||
| Slaughter |
Nate, The FAL is more easily obtained in kit form than AR-10. I just always liked them and have 4 more under construction. Probably have almost a dozen now. You can get receivers for about $500. The supply is drying up of the Imbel (Brazilian contract) receivers and DSA and Coonan make them in US. I've built on DSA and Coonan receivers. FAL parts kits are going for $500-ish right now on the FAL board Marketplace: http://www.falfiles.com That site is THE FAL Site! LOADS of knowledge but also some real attitude toward people that come there wanting to be urban "Rambo" or pretending to be experts. Building is pretty simple BUT setting headspace is critical (look up "locking shoulder" for info) Having one of only 2 or 3 FAL specialists assemble and test-fire is another $450-ish if you go that route. I've used http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com There are brands to avoid if building or buying. CAI is commonly available for $1000-ish but a crapshoot on quality. Stay away from Hesse, DPMS. Arizona Response Systems lists the crappy receivers based on their experience as a gunsmith. |
