| Author | Message | ||
     Davegess |
I know this is not a group big on electric cars but how about GM beating everyone to $30,000 200 mile goal line? | ||
| Henshao |
Would rather have seen the Volt SS with two more electrically driven wheels and a turbocharged 2 liter | ||
| Reepicheep |
I think most of us like the idea of a well done hybrid or pure electric. Our beef with the first volt that it was a $200,000 car that a buyer paid $35,000 for, and our kids will have to pay $165,000 (with interest) for. If GM can build a $30,000 car that will go 200 miles on charge, that's pretty nice... though I'd rather see a $5000 all electric motorcycle that will go 100 miles. | ||
| Sifo |
But it's only a $30,000 car after the government (that would be tax payers) kicks in it's $7,500. Then there's still the question of, can they make a profit? Are the rare metals required available in the quantities to cover the roads in these batteries? Short answer is no. | ||
| Reepicheep |
My Dad got a CMax Ford hybrid, and a friend needed to borrow our minivan so I drove her Prius for a day, and I will say the hybrid technology is getting very compelling. The CMax, while a dull little car in terms of performance and excitement, is a great little car in terms of being a car. And the Prius I drove had something like 250k miles on it and (aside from lots of worn out plastic bits) was working great, the driveline was still rock solid, and the original batteries were still doing their job. | ||
| Robertl |
We have a 2012 Honda CRZ and also received the 7500 rebate. This hybrid works a little differently with a 1.5L gas that runs all the time with electric boost (like a turbo). We average 35 mpg. Fill up is 10 gals so $20-30 every 2 weeks for commuting. Downside is it is small (sure is easy to park) and noisy. Seat bottoms could use a tad more padding too. The start/stop can get annoying at times, especially on a summer day in FL when the a/c cuts off. Really my only complaint is the road noise and resale value (ouch). I tried to talk the wife into a Volt but she had a CRX when younger so just had to have the CRZ. She said the Bolt is ugly and at least the Volt was a nice looking car. I think the Bolt is more practical in size for the average person. That whole GM ignition key scandal still doesn't sit well with me so doubt I ever buy a GM vehicle. Zero bikes are eligible for a few rebates, fed and state, but still a little pricey at the moment. Although, if I commuted alone, I would probably buy one anyway. Coworker has a Fusion hybrid. He loves it and coming from a hardcore Nascar guy this was quite a shock. He only lives a few miles from work so unless he goes somewhere extra, he fills up once a month or less. I see at least a dozen Tesla's, couple of Nissan Leaf's, and even a few BMW i3's. I look forward to the days when I do not have to stop for gas. | ||
| Al_lighton |
I think it's a bit premature to say that they've achieved that range at that price. See http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/197327-200-mile -30k-chevy-bolt-ev-and-chevy-volt-2-0-revealed-at- detroit-auto-show Sounds like optimistic concept car booga to me. But it'll all get there eventually. We put solar on our house a couple years ago, which makes a lot of sense out here in sunny San Diego. Our SDG&E electricity is just about the most expensive in the country for some reason. After state and federal rebates, the payoff period is about 5 years. We sized the system for our consumption at the time, but after changing to LEDs for all house lighting and some other changes, we found that we were generating a fair amount more than we need for 10 months of the year. Since SDG&E doesn't pay squat for the excess generation, it made more sense to try to use the excess. So we traded our 2012 Ford Focus in on a 2015 Ford Fusion Energi plug-in Hybrid. The plug-in range is a fairly dismal 21 miles or so per Ford's specs and in reality is more typically about 17 miles. The Fusion has a 7.6kWh plug in battery, 1.4kWh hybrid battery. For comparison, a 2016 Chevy Volt has an 18.4 kWh battery, Teslas have 70 or 85kWh batteries. The 17 miles electric range serves us pretty well for normal use, given that the shop is only 7 miles from our house. Most days our commute is mostly free other than tire and car wear and tear, and brake wear is substantially reduced as well . The car itself cost more as a plug-in hybrid than the plain hybrid or gas only model, but 90% of that cost difference was paid back by state and federal incentives (read: YOU paid for it...thanks). The battery takes a good bit of the trunk space, and it weighs a fair amount. The overall performance of the car is somewhat uninspiring, but we weren't looking for a sports car. It's very comfy, and the tech all works really well. It's a very nice car in most ways. What is amusing is that with all the energy monitoring aids on the dash, Joanne drives it way differently than she ever has before. She used to be a bit of lead foot. But what with all the mileage and energy displays on the dash, she drives ultra conservatively now. I've coined the term "prius-ing about" to describe her current driving style. She is usually trying to max out her acceleration and braking scores on the dash, much the chagrin of the lead foots behind us. Teslas are a dime a dozen out here in SoCal. I typically see at least 4 or 5 of them in any commute. I'd read that Tesla loses $4k for every car they sell (http://fortune.com/2015/08/10/tesla-money-lost-mod el-s/ ). For as many as I see out here, it's hard to fathom how they stay in business. But what a nice looking car they are. | ||
| Reepicheep |
That's great info Al. Does that solar also heat and cook? Or do you have natural gas for that? A 5 year payback is awesome! | ||
| Al_lighton |
Heat and cook is natural gas. But our typical electric bills used to be $200-$300 per month, and that's without air conditioning! I have friends with both a pool and air conditioning in large houses that have had $700-900 per month electricity bills here in the summer. Like I said, SDG&E electricity is VERY expensive. During the summer months, our system puts out 40-45kWh per day, and that's most days because as the song says, it never rains in southern california. Right now, we'll typically get 22-27 kWh per day when it's sunny, but a cloudy day might only net 8-10kWh or less if it's raining. Maintenance is basically non-existent, other than occasionally hosing off the panels since it doesn't rain enough here to wash them off routinely If you use $200/month, that's $2400 per year. At 5 years, that's $12k. The installation cost was about $14.5K, but after tax credits, it was less than $12K. A lot of folks out here are having solar lease systems installed, but they don't make a lot of sense to me with a 5 year payback unless you'd have to finance the installation. The plug-in hybrid seemed like the best way to use the excess. But not long after we bought it, gas prices went crashing down, so our payback there worsened. OTOH, since we only paid about what the car would've cost if it wasn't a plug in hybrid due to the tax credits, we're still ahead. Our gasoline is about the most expensive in the country as well. Current pricing here is about $3.05-$3.10 here, where it's below $2.00 in much of the country right now. So saving money on gas here with the plug in hybrid can be significant. EXCEPT for one thing, and anyone considering an electric car should look into this prior to purchasing...the insurance rates on electric cars are exorbitant. I honest think we're consuming all of our gas savings on increased insurance cost. And the systems are more complex, so there could be some maintenance costs in our future as well. So we also got the extended warranty, which I usually decline. An electric motorcycle would be good, but right now, they're just too darned expensive for how far they go. | ||
| Akbuell |
And one other thing about EV costs . . . Might do to check your state laws. It seems Some States have decided that since you are not buying gasoline (spelled tax income) your license plates have an added surcharge to make up for the road usage you "are not paying for". | ||
| Reepicheep |
Based on driving that Prius with a quarter of a million miles, I don't know if your long term maintenance costs will be much higher. That drivetrain was in pretty amazing shape. So the different duty cycle that a hybrid motor sees may make the dang thing last for freaking forever. (Pure anectdotal speculation at this point, but my instincts tell me it may be true). |
