| Author | Message | ||
     Fresnobuell |
This one may be it: http://www.amazon.com/Vortex-Optics-Strike-AR-BDC- Reticle/dp/B00S2P2KKS/ref=sr_1_1?s=hunting-fishing &ie=UTF8&qid=1451632891&sr=1-1&keywords=vortex+str ike+eagle Decent compromise of a CQB scope and a distance scope? Or one that won't do either adequately? | ||
| Aesquire |
Looks good. It's really best if you can look through one......... But a decent scope, and a useful reticule. | ||
| Court |
I'm sure the shooting I was in was not representative . . . but, even with the most sophisticated optics, wouldn't it take . . . in a home invasion setting . . . a good deal of time to acquire and engage a target. Part of the objective, it would seem, would be to get something, anything, off in the general direction of the intruder to begin to take them off their balance. For this reason I've always counted on muzzle flash and noise to do their part in the opening seconds of any encounter. If I get into a tactical situation, then I can see the sights and ballistics playing more of a roll. It's certainly . . if only academic in a NYC environment . . . an interesting discussion. | ||
| Slaughter |
I have shot literally thousands of rounds with an AR-15 and AR-180 using the Armson OEG gunsite. Two eyes open, rapid target acquisition. Instinctive point-and-shoot. Lived in Mojave with good access to private air/ground gunnery ranges where we could SAFELY shoot moving targets with miles of open land. We put cardboard in tires and would roll them down the hills and you'd be surprised that the gun sight would work as well as it did. More intuitive than shooting iron sights with both eyes open. If you're looking for something in your price range of 300-ish bucks, I can STRONGLY recommend it. Tritium requires no batteries and is replaceable. http://www.armsonusa.com/armsonoeg.html I now have an ACOG because I liked the magnification but don't feel that it offers more than the Armson for short-range shooting. | ||
| Henshao |
Very interesting weapon sight. "but, even with the most sophisticated optics, wouldn't it take . . . in a home invasion setting . . . a good deal of time to acquire and engage a target." It would take time to...Identify, acquire, and engage. But I'm sure you already meant for 'identify' to be in there, Court. So who wants to talk about weapon lights, now? | ||
| Rick_a |
The 80's called...they want their red dot back. Aimpoint and Eotech are much better options (Eotech's snafu with the Crane's Naval Warfare Center notwithstanding). If you're gonna go old school, I like C-More.  20140306_121007 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr Back before such sights were prevalent and there were no standardized mounts for lights, we taped lights to handguards and aimed over the iron sights at CQB ranges. Crude but effective. For lights there's Streamlight, Viridian, and, of course, Surefire with some good options. It's a little guy, but it's enough.  My old 870 has a Laser Devices forend.  My new but still old 1100 has a cheap Chinese Firefield(?) light.  One I re-soldered some connections on the circuit board it's been good. That should probably be upgraded at some point. It was used due to budgetary restraints imposed by the spousal unit. | ||
| Slaughter |
Can an EOTech meet the $300 goal? Again, I haven't OWNED an Armson since the good-old pre-ban days. They still exist. I like the ACOG. A LOT. It is definitely NOT a $300 sight. I also own two SUIT sights for a few of my FALs (speaking of 80's sights and weapons, I'm quite fond of FAL rifles)... just not for home defense. The 870 is still my go-to for home defense. The rifles are unloaded and locked up. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
COurt, my feeling is in a home invasion setting the good ol iron sights might be the ticket. Yeah old school as old school gets, but at a 20 foot range in that setting, a fancy CQB scope may not be necessary and maybe a hindrance. Similar to the heavy 75 grain Hornady TAP hollow points. Yeah they are probably too heavy given the 1 in 9 rifling of the MP15, but who cares at 20 feet? My plan is to use the iron sights until proficient as I want to really get to know this weapon...then put on the fancy schmancy scope...whatever this maybe. Loving this discussion as the options and opinions of viable AR15 scopes is overwhelming. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
ACOG has not been on the rader due to cost. What is so special about this scope, other than the price? The magnification is nothing to write home about. It's a smaller package, but it's not feather weight. My guess is the quality of the glass and the fiber-optic thing which means no more batteries. Am I missing anything? | ||
| Thumper74 |
Henshao, in regards to Vortex, I have one. Out of the box, it would not zero. I thought I was nuts. I had an army ranger (BIL) and he could not get any windage adjustment. I sent it back and they had a sorted in less than two weeks. BUT, I'm nervous about it now. I don't trust it. I also have another red dot. It's been great. I over tightened it and the company replace the base, no questions asked. I'm okay paying for quality. It's when I don't get what I paid for, that kills me. | ||
| Slaughter |
Fresno, Having shot and owned both the Armson AND ACOG, for the money, I'd opt for the Armson. Both use tritium elements good for ~12 years Both are replaceable. Can't speak for other CQB systems. Were I to rely on a sight having been startled awake, I'd want one that could be instincthl shot. No parallax or eye relief to consider. Even tritium sights on a slug barrel on the 870 aren't as instinctive (borrowed a friend's barrel to try) YMMV | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Vortex has pretty good rep as far as I can tell. They apparently even replace scopes that the customer screws up and doesn't hassle about it. I suspect if you put a few hundred rounds out there with the vortex without an issue, it would gain your confidence back? | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I agree. Looking thru a scope-even at 1x--doesn't seem like a great method for home defense. I need to get my hands on the MP15 before I can definitively say one way or another, but I am hoping the iron sights might co-witness with the scope I will eventually mount OR go the Court method and just point and shoot. At home defense ranges, this just might be the best and quickest. With practice, I bet you could get accurate enough. | ||
| Aesquire |
You can over think this stuff. While the Jr. space man in me prefers a holo sight to a tube model, a 1x red dot of ANY kind is superior to iron sights at close quarters. Especially when you use the proper technique, which is Both Eyes Open, so the red dot forms an image on your view of the world, not just a thing you see in a tube. And a model with tritium for battery free night use ( the most probable time for any bad encounter ) is ideal, front to back. No switches to turn on to be useful, nothing to remember, just works. Target acquisition, speed, accuracy, all enhanced over Iron sights. Lights! Yes. Do you have fore end rails? Want to use a vertical front grip? { part of me wants a FN P-90 because it was used on Stargate SG-1. I want a Winchester lever action shorty Mare's Leg in part because of Steve McQueen in the tv show "bounty Hunter"..... but mostly because of Zoe on "Firefly". )  | ||
| Henshao |
At close range, you can shoot using just a mounted flashlight, if you know where your point of impact is in comparison to the center of the beam. | ||
| Thumper74 |
Fresno, I expect a product to work out of the box. It wasn't an EoTech, but it was still close to $200. I can't complain about the warranty and their service, but we'll see. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
+1 It must have been made on Monday or Friday. | ||
| Henshao |
Without defending Vortex to any great length, I'd like to say even Art Monk dropped a pass or two at least once in his career. (Substitute Jerry Rice if you don't know who Art Monk is) | ||
| Zac4mac |
I got my wife a Henry Mare's Leg in .44mag and she loves it. She's not fond of the magnum loads tho, so she loads it with .44 spl He said Steve McQueen... | ||
| Gregtonn |
Way late to the discussion but I'll add my 2 cents. If its a home invasion in the average size room you don't any thing special. If you can't hit someone at that range you haven't practiced enough. Rick, I like the Cold Steel Katana. With the haft correctly wrapped in 550 paracord it would be awesome. I may even get one. G | ||
| Aesquire |
A buddy got the Cold Steel boar spear for Christmas. A little long for home defense imho, but good for many hunting jokes. Imagine asking a land owner to hunt deer on his land........ carrying a spear dressed in a loin cloth. | ||
| Etennuly |
Ya ever strike a watermelon with a 1600's style sword? Weighs in about 7 pounds, half a back swing easily will pass a slice all the way through. I read somewhere that the human skull has a similar impact resistance to a thick skinned watermelon. Grew watermelons a few years back. Had lots of left overs. We knifed them, sword attacked them, shot them, and blew some up. I like watermelons.....and living in the country. | ||
| 86129squids |
I stepped outside to chat with my neighbor yesterday, and we discovered that some punk kids had shot up ours and 2 other houses with a paintball gun. The first one they hit was down the street and closer to the street than the others, several of the paintballs had busted a hole in the siding. We discussed putting up some hunting cameras, but I'm completely unfamiliar with them, or other good options. I'm wanting to put up 2 or 3 around the property, along with a solar powered alarm of some kind for my detached shed where my bikes are kept. Any good ideas youn's? Holla! | ||
| Etennuly |
The hunting cameras work just like security lights, trip beam area, picture is taken. Probably not a bad idea. I was thinking freeze some paint balls, get the paint ball gun fully ready and shoot back when they are seen! But then.....can that, it is not a good idea.  Where you live I certainly would let the local police know. These things can do a lot of damage to personal property. If some unknowing parent got a youngster one for Christmas who doesn't have a clue, he needs to be stopped before his parents cannot afford the damage trail. | ||
| 86129squids |
Done, Vern. Right after we discovered it all, we walked down to the neighbor who got the siding damage, and I called Maryville dispatch. A nice police-lady came out and did a report on his house, said they'd step up patrols in the area. There's another group of f##cktards who I think are using the little park pavilion next to my property as a dropoff/pickup point- I'd like to fix a camera there too. Who can point me to some good camera models/options? Like I said, I've no experience with them, but I know a lot of you folks here are hunters... point me in the right direction! | ||
| 86129squids |
Oh and BTW I just ordered this: Eray Outdoor Solar Powered Spot Siren for Security System with Double-deck Waterproof Coil Design and Alarm with Flash Light and Sound $99 bucks shipped, here by Tuesday. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0129G46NE?psc=1& redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00 | ||
| Slaughter |
I used to work IN the weapons biddness. Gubbmint contract. The cool thing was that I had perimeter alarm on the house and a second on the safe. IF the safe alarm went off, it meant a SWAT response since I had Class 3 hardware at that time. | ||
| Etennuly |
Try Bass Pro Shop. They kind of specialize in that kind of stuff. I'd look there to find what you want, then check prices on line. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
ADT has the pulse package, which apparently has wireless camera capability (if by some chance you have ADT or have been contemplating signing up.) You can connect via internet for the cameras as well. | ||
| Aesquire |
Court. I've given some thought to your question about wouldn't it be better to get the first shot off fast?? Not if it misses. I do have a friend who keeps a black powder Colt in the bedroom, reasoning the ball of fire will discourage an intruder. But if he doesn't shoot it at least monthly, it's more likely to not work. Not a logically horrible idea, although the lawyer of the intruder is likely to use your missed shot as justification for the intruder harming you in self defense. A mockery of reason, but what are the odds in today's legal system? Then there's the responsibility you have for the damage done by your misses. But. I think you misunderstand how easy a zero-magnification dot scope is to use. Yes. Any notable magnification will really slow target acquisition, at household ranges. That's my experience with a normal hunting scope on a rifle or shotgun. You have to choose which eye to use since you are getting different images, and the magnified blur through the scope is less than useful. "Red dot" sights are used both eyes open and with little practice you simply see the dot "mixed" in your mind in both eyes. The dot doesn't have to be dead center in the scope for accurate fire. Where the dot is is where the holes go. There is a range of off-center capability and reticule designs. For target shooting and at longer ranges, a simple dot is limiting. Donuts, inverted triangles, tiny dot inside donut, etc. Do a bit better at range but still work up close, just fine. And faster than iron sights. Proven in combat and competition. I anticipate contact lenses with displays soon. Infrared camera on weapons. There will be a whole new school of shooting with emphasis on retention positions and obstacles. But until then, dots and lasers are state of the art. ( That's funnier if you saw "Deal of the Century" ) |
