| Author | Message | ||
     Pwnzor |
Anybody seen this? I hadn't been paying much attention to space vehicles lately, but DAMN!!! | ||
| Aesquire |
Yes. Major step towards re usable space access and cheaper exploitation of the vast riches of the Solar system. Also very freaking cool. | ||
| Rick_a |
Looks much better than these episodes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUdmR-NlW6o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cvGGxTsQx0 | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
So, you have to carry the fuel for liftoff and touchdown. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Indeed. Probably much cheaper than losing an entire launch vehicle every single time you do it. | ||
| Hootowl |
If I recall, spacex says they use like two hundred thousand dollars in fuel to launch and recover the first stage. I don't remember where I read that. The first stage costs 60 million. So...much cheaper. | ||
| Sifo |
It is kind of necessary if you want to go to Mars and get back. It's a big enough hurdle to refuel on Mars. It would be a much bigger hurdle to have to manufacture a new launch vehicle. Then again, I'm not sold on going to Mars. | ||
| Crusty |
Elon Musk should change his name to Delos D. Harriman. I am sold on getting off this planet. Robert A. Heinlein was an incredibly inspirational author, and he instilled a great vision in me for the potential future for the Human Race. I hope to see colonies off the Earth before I die. | ||
| Aesquire |
It is kind of necessary if you want to go to Mars and get back. It's not just Mars, it's necessary to get ANYWHERE. Earth Orbit is half the way to the rest of the Solar system. It's the difference between Artillery and Airplanes. How much would a trip to Japan cost you if they threw away the 747? | ||
| Etennuly |
You ever realize how much humans are like an infection to the planet Earth? We started as few, found ways to survive and thrive eating and expending parts of our host planet. We have exploited and discovered nearly everything of value here. Then, now that we are feeling like we have over populated and used up the best parts of it, we are attempting to move on and "infect" another planet "to survive". Silly old World, ain't it?  | ||
| Pwnzor |
The Earth is largely unpopulated. People crowd into the cities because they don't want to survive, they want to subsist... gnawing on the teat provided for them by the gubmint. Sure, I shop in supermarkets, but the difference between me and most others is that I don't have to. If needed, I can feed myself. But I digress. The time has come for us to leave this ball of rocks, ice and fire. SpaceX in my estimation is going to be the one to put people off the planet affordably in my own lifetime. This is exciting stuff. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"gnawing on the teat provided for them by the gubmint' what? So if you live in the city youre on government assistance? Silly... | ||
| Pwnzor |
So if you live in the city youre on government assistance? Is that what I said? No. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
No, you just said, "People crowd into the cities because they don't want to survive, they want to subsist... gnawing on the teat provided for them by the gubmint." ...Implying that if they live in the city they are getting government assistance, correct? | ||
| Aesquire |
Absolutely! Is that not the core philosophy of our President? All those city folk live on the labor of the Holy State, according to Barack. "You didn't build that". Now, I may feel differently, I only agree with The O occasionally. Humanity as a disease? I much prefer a more cheerful model. | ||
| Aesquire |
I suppose I should just let you guys snipe at each other.... if you prefer that just say so. The City/country divide has been with us since cities began. The reasons haven't changed much. The bigger the city the more provincial the city folk get, & they have no idea how narrow their views are. Otoh there are a host of small towns that have narrow cultural restrictions and their youth can't wait to get away. Done both. Welfare is there for both. Cities are naturally the home of concentrations of poverty & crime. It's more spread out in the suburbs. The solution is making your society rich. Access to space is access to incredible riches. Most of the gold is deep beneath the surface. Inaccessible to us. Same with all the heavy elements formed in the hearts of super novae. The asteroid belt has those minerals almost just sitting there. ( They are still rare elements, but you can reach them ) | ||
| Etennuly |
Humanity as a disease? I much prefer a more cheerful model. I did not say "disease".....I said infection. There is a big difference. The concept came to me one day when I lived in Florida. I picked up an orange that was laying in my yard and it had black/green mold on it's skin in nearly the exact shape of the North and South American continents. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
aes - well said duder | ||
| Court |
Cool...... I'm here in the midst of NYC .... Send the free crap soon. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Wow... missed the boat again. I'm not going to argue about this. Read whatever you want into my comments, it's what you'll do regardless. I'll clue you in: Infrastructure. Supply chain. Back to the topic, please. | ||
| Aesquire |
Vast wealth. Some of the most important, ice in Saturn's rings. Way cheaper to get than hauling it up the well. Bad sci-fi movies where aliens come to steal our water make me laugh. If you have a star traveling civilization you'd just grab the easy stuff in space and ignore the planets and the ground hugger society there. Supply chain? Every American city of any size has less than a weeks supply of food on the shelves. A few with food industry, more. Small towns? Pretty much the same. A month long American blackout from EMP or solar storm would kill millions. ( first you have to restart the factory that makes transformers & switches ) if it's a planetary blackout? Half? The old reason to live in cities is that's where the jobs were. Farm work is hard and pays poorly. The late twentieth century reason is better welfare support. The Greenie reasons tor mandatory city living are totalitarian control and "saving nature". | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
NASA has already landed various craft on the moon and mars and in the case of the moon returned from the surface. So, what specific new capability does this achievement give us? In terms of saving and reusing the first stage I'm assuming the expensive component is the rocket motor. Couldn't that be jettisoned and returned using a parachute? Carrying the extra fuel just means you decrease the capacity of the payload. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/getto space.html short form is rockets are fragile and parachute landings in sea water tend to wreck them. The ideal is SSTO. Single stage to orbit & back. The technology is tight on SSX, as referred to above, but two stage is doable. The Shuttle was originally supposed to be reusable. The budget battles occupy a very thick book ( I have ) they just ended up with a throwaway first stage that we salvaged part of..... as junk. The Shuttle itself needs to be rebuilt between flights. It costs far more to fly than it should have, but was a great lesson in what not to do. ( to be fair, one problem was it was designed to carry garage sized observation satellites for the Air Force etc. and by the time they finished it the Gov. had a new generation of Titan and not many Shuttle flights carried them ) | ||
| Aesquire |
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Horse_(rocket) Here is another concept, refuel the orbiter at high altitude after it's burned most of it's fuel, then on to orbit. The SR-71 Blackbird usually took off with partial fuel and refueled on the way. It lets you make the plane lighter. A lot. (Message edited by aesquire on December 28, 2015) | ||
| Aesquire |
Affordable orbital boost is the key. Halfway to everywhere. In space it's all about how much total vector change as energy ( actually it's fuel ) and it takes as much energy to get to orbit as it does to go from orbit to Mars or Pluto. ( Pluto takes longer ) Theoretically if you assembled a Saturn 5 in orbit, fully fueled, it could make it to Alpha Centauri but would take centuries to get there. Interstellar travel at human time scales takes big energy. So the Space X success is a big honking deal. I would like stock. | ||
| Sifo |
Interesting take on this event. I'm still not the least bit convinced about human space travel being feasible with our current understanding of physics. I see the moon as about the realistic distance. No doubt Mars is achievable, but probably at great cost to those who make the trip. Permanent settlements on Mars? Why? | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
I think its the American spirit, it is the 21st century version of Manifest Destiny, to conquer and spread. Personally I have no interest in another planet, Im happy where I am. But I love the idea that we, as a race(human, not color etc), might have that option in my lifetime (I am in my early 30s). Good on Musk for continuing this project and doing big things! | ||
| Aesquire |
Huh? Of course it's feasible. Mars, the Jovian moons, even The Ort cloud. It used to take months to sail to distant lands. To the moon is like from London to Dublin. Mars like S. Africa. Jupiter like Australia. All rational human scale travel. To Wolf 359? That will take technology like the EM drive or laser booster sail. Or a generation ship where the great grandchildren reach the destination. That won't happen for a while even if warp drive is invented. But... there's a huge amount of treasures local. If nothing else, orbital solar power, and hazardous industry away from where people live makes space travel desirable. ( gold.....flying mountains of gold ) | ||
| Aesquire |
Hybrid, zero carbon emission, pollution free power. Metals refined by solar mirrors in vacuum stronger than currently available, without carving away mountain sides here. You don't have to go. Let us make Earth a park with the wealth beyond Midas' s dreams | ||
| Sifo |
It used to take months to sail to distant lands. To the moon is like from London to Dublin. Mars like S. Africa. Jupiter like Australia. All rational human scale travel. The time involved is the least of the problems. Space is an incredibly hostile environment. Then once you get to where your are going, it's not much more inviting. Mars is the most inviting and is still incredibly hostile when compared to crossing the Atlantic Ocean by innertube. |
