| Author | Message | ||
     Fresnobuell |
What's the recommended course of action during a home intruder situation at night? Assuming the guy isn't standing over you as you sleep...do you make yourself known and grab your home defense weapon of choice? Or do you quietly try to sneak up on the intruder figuring you know the layout of your house and he doesn't (assuming it's dark.) I have run thru these scenarios in my head many times as I don't want the first time thinking about it to be when I am actually in the real-life situation. Does anyone have any tactical advice on home defense techniques? Pistol or shotgun? I know this info is out there on the 'Net, but I thought it may be an interesting discussion here.... | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
A jar of sulfuric acid to the face. | ||
| Aesquire |
Quietly arm yourself and stay low profile. Gather spouse & children in safest space behind you. Bathtub may be best if you have a master bath beyond the bedroom. Stay low, behind bed, maybe. Do not. Do Not seek confrontation. Do not escalate or start a fight. If threatened, finish it. If you must shoot ( or other action...... swing bat, for example ) do not shoot to wound. First, Chuck Norris can't do so safely, I doubt you can either. ( I can't ) Second, you will be sued hideously. Be prepared for more legal hassle than if you were the burglar. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Get the family two rooms from the stairs... so master bath off master bedroom. Arm them, several of them if possible. Get them on the cell phone with 911. Arm youself at the top of the stairway (natural chokepoint) and yell that you are on the phone with 911, you are in fear for your life, you are armed, and you will employ immediate deadly force on anyone you see. | ||
| Hootowl |
In Texas, if you use force and are found to be criminally not liable for hurting your attacker/intruder, you are immune from civil liability. They can still sue you, but the case will be thrown out. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1771 Recently found this comic strip, and laughed out loud, hard, frequently. But the above strip tells it like it is. New to guns person getting trained. ( pink haired girl is an Air Force Spec Ops sniper. ) (Message edited by aesquire on December 04, 2015) | ||
| Hootowl |
Also, in Texas, the act of entering a dwelling is committed when any part of your body or part of any object you are carrying enters the dwelling. That means if the tip of the crowbar slips inside the door or window, you are inside and can be shot by the homeowner as you now constitute a present threat. | ||
| Etennuly |
One thing I am going to rig up that I just keep putting off. I want a light switch for the kitchen in my bedroom. If would be bad guy is in my living room my bedroom door would be in front of him, kitchen behind. When I turn on light in kitchen behind him, I have the advantage as my bedroom would now be behind him as he would turn towards the room that just lit up becoming temporarily blinded. My plan would then be to thump him hard on the back of the head with B-B bat then as he hits the floor(no matter how many times the bat must be swung to get him down) then take what ever weapon he has in his possession and use it on him until it was empty or worn out. I was a neighborhood watch commander for a few years in our subdivision in Florida. I finally got burned out on the local first hand bad news. Spent a lot of time with local Sheriffs Deputies going over how to handle intruders. All said (unofficially) to make what ever happened look like a panic situation. Finish the intruder off for sure, then empty the gun in surrounding floor or(safely)walls. Keep one in the chamber just in case. They said they did not want to come into an invaded home to find intruder dead of a double tap to the heart or forehead with no other shots fired. Something about that makes for a curved investigation. Now I live in a country setting with dogs outside and dogs in side. I prefer to leave all lights off at night. It scares the heck out of people who have never been here to not know where the dogs are at any given moment. No one has ever pulled into my driveway after dark who has not been invited. One sales guy, who was invited, recently pulled in, paused for a bit, backed out, and left. I watched him pull out. He called me the next day saying that he was afraid to get out of his car unsure of my exact address and feeling like there were eyes looking at him through the darkness. He feared that if he was at the wrong address he might get shot.  Remember a thief is usually looking for quick and easy. If the obstacles in the way of what they want are overwhelming(or scary even) they will run and go elsewhere unless you have something specific that they know you have. | ||
| D_adams |
1st, I'd move from CA if at all possible. 2nd, check for the legality on castle law doctrine if you're forced to stay there. | ||
| Mnscrounger |
Home defense tactics vary as much as family demographics and floor plans. There is no magic formula. Aesquire 's advice is solid, but I'd like to pose a few questions back for you to think about. "Gather spouse & children" Absolutely, but: 1. Are the children big enough to walk themselves, or do you need to carry them? 2. Are they in the room next door, down the hall, on another floor? Stairways and hallways are dangerous choke points to travel through, but also great places to defend. If you need to go to your children, walking through a common area of the house exposes you to danger, but more importantly,moving one or more to another room in order to gather them together also exposes them. It might be safer to arm both yourself and your spouse before one of you goes for the children. The spouse stays in a safe place to make the 911 call. If you need to carry a child, that answers the pistol/shotgun question, as a shotgun means you would need to drop a child to use it effectively. A pistol would be no simple task with a child in your arms either, and I don't think you want to use your children as human body armor. My personal advice is to go DEFEND the children, but don't move them, or even wake them if you don't have to, unless of course their big enough to help you in a fight for your lives. About that 911 call, it NEEDS to be made. Response time is measured in minutes, so get as many minutes in your favor as you can. Police don't mind an occasional false alarm, its way easier than getting cohesive statements from violence victims. Guns in the house: Defense guns need to be ready to go( loaded, or easily loaded quickly) but if you have kids under 18 they also need to be locked solidly away to prevent self inflicted tragedies. I have a safe with an electronic lock I can get into in seconds if I need to. The reasoning from my perspective is, if I'm not awake enough to open the safe, I'm not awake enough to be able to use a firearm anyway. An adrenaline fueled intruder would get the drop on me if a gun were just in a nightstand drawer. If you discharge that firearm, walls won't stop most defensive calibers. If you have neighbors (most of us do) too much gun or projectile is a civil liability you need to consider. Keep a cel phone in your bedroom in case an intruder cuts your phone, or cuts the power to kill an alarm system.(which also disables most cordless phones)Even one with no plan or minutes can dial 911. If you use a cel to make the 911 call, be prepared to give your address, possibly even city and county to the dispatcher, as they may not get that automatically if you're not on a land line. Get a dog, ideally a lighter color for low light. It doesn't have to be big, or even mean, just there. A dog does a few things for you tactically. 1. It deters some intruders from coming in in the first place. 2. It hears things you don't, and may react to give you warning before the bad guy is standing over you. 3. If you send the dog out to investigate the "bump in the night", they will tell you where an intruder is, and if they are armed. If the intruder is armed, the dog likely will force them to give away their position. (Downside you'll probably need another dog when the encounter is over) Either way you have gained knowledge you didn't have before without exposing yourself to danger, and can plan your next move accordingly. Shooting an armed intruder through a wall is an option (NOT a requirement) if you know precisely which wall the armed intruder is standing behind. 4. If it's a false alarm, the dog will effectively "clear" your house, floor by floor, without you ever exposing yourself to any danger. There's lots more to consider, but you get the idea. Stay safe. | ||
| Robertl |
Automate house lights. Becoming much more economical now. Outdoor motion lights are always a good deterrent. A good friend said if you are going to buy a camera system, spend a little more for HD so their faces are actually visible on the video. Real thieves can tell the difference from a real and fake camera. Retreat to safe spot. Call 911. Turn all house lights on. Hope to avoid confrontation. Regardless of how macho one might believe, if you take a life, that experience will be with you for the rest of your life. Some handle better than others, some never recover. Then there is the whole legal battle. Even if case is thrown out, just the hassle is even reason to avoid the situation if possible. Adopt a dog, or in our case 4 big dogs. There are plenty at the shelter that will gladly make plenty of noise. We ask people to call from driveway b/c if they knock or ring bell it will set all the dogs off and it takes quite a while to get them to calm down. Honestly, most of the home invasions I see locally are during the day. | ||
| Mnscrounger |
The problem now Etennuly, is you just posted that advice in a public forum. That could also be used against you. | ||
| Hootowl |
If you can't call 911 before, do it immediately after. You need to be the first one to report the encounter. If not, you're the defendant in court, not the plaintiff. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
You gotta love Texas | ||
| Aesquire |
Are they in the room next door, down the hall, on another floor? Good points, something to be aware of, and take into account when planning response. There is almost no greater tragedy than shooting your own kid. I don't know what kind of angels you were, but I was not above sneaking out of the house, or back in, late at night. How old? I don't even remember, but anyone from 3 to 33 can be moving about at any hour. And trying very hard to not wake you. Very suspicious sounds. A 12 year old who slid out to have a few beers at a buddies house at 3 am can sound a lot like a violent home invasion, as he ( or she ) tries to quietly get back to their room.... knocking over lamps and pictures off walls. If you discharge that firearm, walls won't stop most defensive calibers. Yes! these guys, http://www.theboxotruth.com/tag/original-chapters/ have spent a lot of fun range time testing myths. FBI specs call for 18 inches of penetration. You shoot someone to let the angry out. If the projectile does not reach the heart or CNS, it may not slow someone down. ANYTHING with the power to do the job will go through walls. Sometimes several. Know your space. And never, ever, use bird shot. I know of at least one case where a Deputy used bird shot at the range to practice, and did not change back to Buck shot in his issue shotgun. When he later had an armed confrontation, the bird shot did not stop the fight and he was killed. Bird shot causes huge, nasty, shallow wounds. The kind that easily convinces the jury that you owe the wounded attacker more money than you will ever make. And now never will. But it won't reliably stop a fight. Never threaten, never publicize your readiness or armament, and never shoot to disarm. Everything you saw in the movies is wrong. See my link above. | ||
| Ourdee |
I sleep in a room with concrete walls as a backstop. No you can't see it. No one is invited there. I do not plan on leaving that room. White dog is in front of me. Wife behind me. I don't search and clear anymore. That was another career. Once 911 is called, I will not move. Concealment is not cover. Cover will stop incoming rounds. There are 2 cell phones within arms reach. Once I am "IN FEAR FOR MY LIFE", I will do what is necessary to "STOP THE THREAT". Some people want to know how many rounds are the right number. The number it takes to "STOP THE THREAT". Don't get caught up in one of those conversations. Don't expose your weaknesses or strengths. Make all your decisions prior to the fight. Base your choices on the knowledge that it will cost you a minimum of a year of your life. http://www.secondcalldefense.org/plans-and-pricing | ||
| Ezblast |
Just shoot the bum or cut their head off. Welcome to Cali make my day law. EZ | ||
| Henshao |
FBI Calls for 18 inches of penetration??? That's center-fire rifle territory...FBI calls for 12 inches last I heard. Although 18" is helpful you're not getting there with expanding ammunition in a handgun | ||
| Anonymous |
Shoot to kill. Wrap up the corpse in plastic and carry it to retention or slurry pond. Dismember. Deposit in central drain leading to major river or tributary. Clean up the house. Report nothing. | ||
| Thumper74 |
I'd 'harden' the house first. Make your neighbors an easier target. Even better, get your neighbors on board and make the whole street look inconvenient. I'm doing this now. I had TWO bikes stolen in less than a year during the day, and no one saw a thing on a dead end street. I've watched someone walking down the street grabbing door handles to see if the cars were unlocked. When they saw me watching them, they hightailed it out of there. I ran to the local corner store for a six pack of oatmeal stout and watched a car pull in, someone hop in, hop out, then the car left... Recently, I lost one of my cats temporarily and found that someone had cut through my window screen. The pin kept them from opening the window. I put pins (http://www.lowes.com/pd_265649-76018-U+11070-L_1z0 ykao__?productId=3407992&pl=1)in all my ground story windows, limiting them to 4" of being opened. I have a sliding door (so easy to open when it's locked), with two pin slots, 4" opened for nice weather and one pin for completely closed. The front door has a sturdy dead bolt with longer screws that don't just go through the door jamb, but also the framing in the wall. The only other ground floor entry is through the garage. I've got two dogs, which are a deterrent. They're friendly as can be, but sound vicious from outside. I've considered a home security system, but with two dogs, too many cats and a free roaming tortoise, it wouldn't work. I AM setting up a wireless security camera setup pointing at my driveway/front door, back yard, etc. Again, I'd like to make my house look inconvenient compared to anyone elses. I also just installed light sensing outlets and LED lights outside. They come on when it gets dark. I have done everything I can to make me and my house look like less of a target. If the lights and cameras aren't a deterrent. If you still manage to get into my house through locked and pinned triple pane windows, with two dogs barking at you, I assume you aren't there for a beer. In Ohio, we have the Castle Doctrine. You're in my house. You're fair game. Don't get me wrong. I'm not going to hunt you down. I'll post at the top of the stairs. Take my TV, PS4, whatever. The second you become a threat to me or my family, I'll do what I need to protect us. Your area may vary. If it's a good shoot, it's a good shoot. I have multiple guns. I like target shooting. Two are tacticool, one AR pistol, one AR carbine. I probably wouldn't use either in self defense, mostly due to over penetration and my hearing. I have been witness to one negligent discharge from 9mm JHP and saw the aftermath of another recently. One went through a laminate floor, subfloor, drywall, through a pine topped bakers rack, deformed on the wire of the bakers rack and stuck in a magazine. It did not expand. The cavity was full of drywall. The other went through two layers of drywall, one stud and lodged in a second stud. I was next to the first one and my ears rang for a week. I couldn't imagine shooting a short barrel (10" AR in a house would be like). | ||
| Malott442 |
I like to simulate having a large dog by running around on all 4's and barking any time there is a noise outside at night. I wear a brown bathrobe and keep the blinds open, so that any potential intruder sees what appears to be an overweight angry dog. I also like to simulate gun fire by setting off fireworks 3 or 4 times a night in my bathroom. So far, no one has broken in, which means my method is foolproof! | ||
| Thumper74 |
I approve of your techniques. Any other suggestions? | ||
| Bob_thompson |
After reading all of these thoughts and recommendations please read as much as you can from this guy; maybe the best there is for answering your question. I really like his TV programs and any of his guest appearances. IMHO he is the defense Guru. His book, "In the gravest extreme" is a best seller which I have read and recommend. "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massad_Ayoob" (Message edited by Bob_thompson on December 05, 2015) | ||
| Sifo |
Much depends on specifics of your household. First, you must account for everyone who SHOULD be in the house. Obviously that may have it's own risks if you have an intruder. In my case, the only person I have to worry about is my wife so that part is easy. In my bedroom, I can take concealment behind the corner of our master bathroom and have a view of the stairway as I peak out from behind the corner. It happens to be the ideal set up for a right handed shooter. The view of the stairs is through the railing of the hallway. The intruder would have their back to me as they walk up the stairs. It's not a bad situation tactically. I also know that shooting at that angle is unlikely to endanger a neighbor with any misses. It sounds like you have done the same sort of thinking about your environment. That's a good start. Pistol or shotgun? I've never been a shot gun guy, so the choice is easy for me. In my mind it's more a matter of, if you go shot gun, what shot gun? Probably not a skeet or bird gun. Can you handle shooting a 12 gauge tactical gun? They aren't for everyone. Of course there can be similar issues choosing a pistol. I'm still on the fence on an AR-15 for home defense. I think it's a good choice, but I've got a lot more time with pistols. Knowing your weapon of choice is important! | ||
| Aesquire |
Bob is right. Ayoob has the right advice. Anon's advice is unethical, impractical for most, and may be illegal where you live  Best not to disturb the crime scene. Not a terrible idea to call a buddy ( if you have not yet called 911 ) to take away any "collectibles" not involved in the incident. If 911 already on the way, make sure all collected items are securely locked away and do not mention or discuss them with responding officers. Expect any weapons ( bat, axe, gun ) used to be confiscated and not returned for some time. You will want to lawyer up. Both for defense and to recover property. | ||
| 86129squids |
Really digging this thread... Unfortunately, guns are not an option in my home- prior to her meeting me, my sweetheart's estranged hubby went down the mental rabbit hole and decided to eat the barrel of his gun, basically ruined her life in several ways. Last week, after our dogs were out in the yard going ape$hit, much more than usual, I went and got a $20 Vipertek "flashlight"... it has a 2 position switch. The first position turns on the flashlight, nice and bright- the 2nd position extinguishes the light, and a bright red LED comes on next to a thumb button... push THAT button, and... ZZZAAPPP!!! Instructions claim it'll put a man down quick, even through clothing. Just the sound and sight of that electrical arc will scare the shiznit outta ya!   Bought another pair, one for my elderly, recently widowed neighbor, and one for my sister. I'll continue to follow youn's posts here. | ||
| Fast1075 |
I have no idea what the laws are in Ca. I do live in Flaw'da. Here, even the Sheriff of my county offers this advice: Make sure it really is an intruder, make sure they "can no longer be a threat to anyone", and make sure that they are at least partially inside your house when the cops show up. As an aside, the same Sheriff was asked in an interview why a suspected cop killer was shot 67 times by deputies when he fired on them as they tried to arrest him. His reply: "that's all the ammo they had at hand". Some advice freely given to me by another friend in law enforcement as we discussed this very subject: If the fling hits the fan, when the dust settles, and the corpse is removed (see above paragraph) and questions are asked, all you should say is, I was attacked, and I don't remember what I did, I was terrified (as the investigators pick up 11 45 ACP casings). | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I agree complete. A single guy with no kids in a two story house will act completely different than a father with a family in a single level house. My biggest fear is waking up with some dude over my bed (or likely not waking up at all, if you catch my drift.)I personally I have two smaller dogs that sleep inside. I BELIEVE I would get alerted to another person coming in the house. They certainly aren't afraid to make their discontent known in the middle of the night if a cat, rat or possum runs in the backyard. Anyone have night vision goggles as a part of the home defense kit? In a dark house, this might give the homeowner the advantage. They don't work well with rifles or shotguns with a stock, but a pistol with a laser sighting system supposedly works great. Again, using NVG would take more time in the case of a situation. Time which you may or may not have... great stuff, guys. I hope none of us every have to go thru an event like an unexpected person in the home EVER. That's downright scary. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I was looking at these: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002LIO8FM?psc=1& redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=ATVPDKIK X0DER Better than the ones you buy at Big 5, but of course you can spend many thousands of dollars for a military spec pair. Does anyone know if they are "instant on" or do they have a warming up period before being functional? Being useful in a home defense situation would depend on quick startup. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Aesquire said: "You will want to lawyer up." That gets a big amen. In Massad's "In the gravest extreme" book he states a simple saying when "lawyering up". When the police hit your door, because you have already called them, do not still have your weapon with you and simply say; "I felt my life was in imminent danger and prevented that from happening; "I will make a full statement after I have had a chance to contact my attorney". Then say nothing further, no matter what. Only full name. And by all means never disrupt the "crime scene". Seems like wise, correct and common sense to me. And I have learned: be prepared, lawyers are very expensive and after taking your weapon for evidence, that also becomes yet another big hassle and considerable expense getting it returned. I believe the whole experience can be very life changing and maybe the biggest thing you will ever do in your life. One way or the other it could cost you yours. Personal defense should never be taken lightly or in any form of stupid idiotic macho humor. |
