| Author | Message | ||
     Roderick |
Gents, Am sure all of you must be a fount of knowledge about this. I have an '07 JP GC 4.7 with towing package. I am planning to tow an '89 Toy PU from SLC to Orl. Apprx 2400 miles. I have driven cross country before, just never tow anything before. I am giving the old PU to my brother for his pool service business. The PU has that reliable 22RE engine and it ran to over 290k miles with only a timing chain and starter changes. Five speed manual transmission. Manual front locking hubs that simply just worked when needed. When I started a new life in the West 20 yrs ago fresh out of the USAF and low in money, the truck was my only vehicle and served me well in city and off road. I kept it all these yrs out of sheer loyalty. U-haul want about $350 one-way for a dolly. I have no problems disconnecting the drive shaft, strapping the front wheels, etc...etc...Done that in local city towing before. Then someone suggested a tow bar, like this Reese model... http://www.reeseprod.com/products/vehicle-accessor ies/tow-bars/tow-bar/ESpswhTMncLjCM!iIn1mq7hOw%7CFwBWob http://www.walmart.com/ip/Reese-Towpower-Adjustabl e-Tow-Bar/15125825 Q: Has anyone here used this, or from another brand, in a cross country run before ? Q: Any fabrication needed on the Toy ? Am guessing most likely. I will have to go into storage later and check out the PU's front end. There is one tow hook. Just never used it. I know that bumpers are no-no for the tow bar. Q: Safe max speed ? I am not pressed for time. This is for Thanksgiving vacation. I can run at 50-60 mph all daylight hrs. I can rent the tow dolly if necessary, but it would be nice to save a bit of cash (gas money) and keep the tow bar for future use. Thnx in advance for any advice. Roderick | ||
| Ratbuell |
Towbars have a couple unique features that typically disagree with 4x4/AWD powertrains. It is called "flat towing" and you want to research the transfer case in the truck before flat-towing it. Some units are splash-lubed; those are OK to flat tow. Some have to have a pump running to lube the internals - those are NOT OK to flat-tow. Second is, yes, you will have to do work to the front end of the truck. There is a specific bracket that attaches to the frame of the truck, that has the specific attaching points for the tow bar on it. There is also wiring involved - you have to install and set up a wiring plug that will allow the towed vehicle's lights to work as indicators/brake/running lights since there is no trailer to have fender lights on it. it's an investment in time and money. If the truck is able to be flat towed (transfer case), and if it is going to be towed a LOT in the future....do the install. If it's a one-shot deal? Rent the dolly, and take a spare wheel and tire for it just in case. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Also, keep an eye on the Jeep - watch all the gauges. If you don't already have a transmission cooler, add one. I know...tow package. Add one anyway. If it hunts from Drive to Overdrive and back and up and down and up and down...put it in Drive and leave it there. Tow in 2wd (unless you have Quadradrive full time, in which case change your transfer case fluid before and after the trip). And max speed will depend on common sense, conditions, and how the Jeep is behaving (shifting, temps, power, etc). For a long trip like that...it might be worth renting an actual TRAILER, so you can make use of trailer brakes (instead of having your Jeep stop your Jeep....and the Toyota....and the dolly....that's a lot of extra weight). If you have the tow package you should have a 7 pin wiring plug at the receiver in back; that means your Jeep is pre-wired for a brake controller. Get a Reese Brakeman timed controller (like $60) and the pre-made harness that plugs into the Jeep under the dash (another $20 or so), and you're all set. Load the Toyota on the trailer so there's enough hitch weight to keep it from swaying back and forth too much...but not so much that it squats the Jeep excessively. Adjust that by simply moving the Toyota fore and aft on the trailer and re-strapping it. Uhaul has some lightweight aluminum trailers out there, and on a small tow vehicle on a long trip? I'd make use of trailer brakes. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
How much does it cost to ship it via rail? It may be preferable to "cheat". | ||
| Robertl |
Never used a tow bar for flat towing but towed a lot of trailers and such so here's some information. The #1 killer of transmissions is heat. Towing creates more heat so I 2nd the aux trans cooler or a larger one if possible. The transfer case is the other important part but pulling the drive shafts would solve that issue. If flat towing, checked the front wheel bearings lately? "hunting" as mentioned above.... Most people assume b/c it is a v8 it can tow anything, even in overdrive, and with cruise control. The rolling/multiple hills will get you. When there is a hill, the torque converter unlocks generating more heat. At the top of the hill it goes back into overdrive, but often there is not enough time for it to cool down before the next uphill climb. It is better to turn off cruise, slow down if possible, turn overdrive off, at the cost of a little more fuel. I also turn overdrive off any time I am below 60 mph because the low engine rpms means the trans pump is also turning slower and cooling less. For temporary tow bar applications, often people will remove the bumper so it is easy to bolt the base plate to the frame. The dolly is 750 lbs. Auto transport trailer is 2200 lbs (includes surge trailer brakes so no controller is needed). I've used these and they are heavy trailers. The truck's curb weight ranged from 2,565 to 3,765 lbs., depending on options selected. JGC tow rating is 7200 or 7400 lbs. I towed a lot with mine but anything over 3000 lbs should really have trailer brakes. The JGC likely gets 18-20 mpg on the highway. Probably expect 10-13 mpg towing, maybe less depending on the terrain and equipment used so your fuel cost just easily doubled. By the time you buy/install another or larger trans cooler, buy tow bar or rent dolly/trailer, and double your fuel cost, it might be cheaper to have it transported so your trip is less stressful. Many of the transport sites allow you to submit your offer. A hauler just looking to fill a spot on a trailer will often take a low offer, especially if the drop off is along their route. Hope that helps. | ||
| Skntpig |
+1 on the auxiliary trans cooler, even if it has one stock, add another large one. | ||
| Pwnzor |
He's trying to save money... Put it on a trailer, all 4 wheels off the ground. | ||
| Akbuell |
Have made a couple of cross country trips towing a trailer. Tow vehicle was a 4.0L in-line six Jeep Comanche. Think standard Cherokee with a pickup body on it. I was towing a trailer Way Way over the GVWR, so decided 2 things. I made up my mind before starting that 50MPH would be my top speed. Kind of a balance between fuel mileage and actually getting to the destination. Also put a bit less strain on the tow vehicle. And meant that I had some hope of stopping, should I need to do so. I would put the vehicle to be towed on a trailer, and limit top speed to 55ish MPH, given your more robust tow vehicle. Also gives you a margin for stopping, as the entire rig will put a greater strain on your stock brakes. It's not like pulling a small trailer with a 250 dirt bike on it. Hope this helps, Dave | ||
| Greg_e |
Craigs list for a used tow dolly? I think there are two of them near me for $350 or less, and then you could sell it on the other end. Alternately, you should be able to ship that vehicle for not too much more money, might break even over renting a tow, and using the extra fuel. | ||
| Roderick |
1- The GC is Quadradrive II. Supposedly best that Jeep can offer back then. Never had any problems in the UT mountain snow. 2- The tow is one-way. Whether the Toy will be used for anything else in Florida is a different issue. Not sure if I want to spend a lot of money fabbing up something permanent on the front end. 3- Did not know about turning off overdrive. Guess this is what asking experienced people are for. But the GC does have a towing button in the dash, so it must do something. I will check the user's manual. 4- Google Maps have me running thru Wyoming, Nebraska, Missouri, Tenn, Georgia, then Florida. Not sure what the terrain are like in those states. From what it looks like, since this is a one-way mission for the Toy, it seems to be better to at least use the front wheel dolly tow method. I figured out that work bonuses paid for the gas and hotel round trip. My time in various overseas sh!tholes, worst was the ME, convinced me to enjoy seeing this country any chance possible. I got retired friends at Hurlburt Field and at my 1st assignment, Cannon AFB, looking for me on the return run. Thnx much, gents. Roderick | ||
| Panhead_dan |
A towbar works great but obviously it allows all the wheels to spin while travelling. On a lot of 4wd vehicles, just put the transfer case in neutral and Bob's yer uncle. On your rig, rather than ask a bunch of motorcycle freaks, (not that there is anything wrong with that) ask the manufacturer. What does Toyota recommend? | ||
| Griffmeister |
Way too many years ago I flat towed our car behind a box truck when moving from GA to CT. The one thing that sticks in my mind is that you cannot back up, at least I couldn't. The front wheels just wanted to turn full lock when I did. Of course this was with a bumper mounted tow bar, I don't know if a frame mount works differently. Still, I would recommend a dolly at the least and a trailer would be better just for convenience. Just saying. | ||
| Skntpig |
I was talking about the tow vehicle needs another trans cooler not the towee. | ||
| Roderick |
It is not so much prepping the truck. I got no problems disconnecting the front/rear driveshafts, secure them, and go. It is just I have never done anything like this before. Towing something across town is not the same as across the country and I been around mechanical things from jet fighters to motorcycles to know better than to disregard ignorance. Somewhere someone might have an experience that just might be applicable to my situation. Gotta respect that. Roderick | ||
| Panhead_dan |
"I got no problems disconnecting the front/rear driveshafts, secure them, and go." Like you, I once did just that towing from the pnw to huston. We never found the drive shaft. After a bit of research, I learned that all I had to do was slip it in neutral and put a bungie on the steering wheel. The specific question is- does the tranny lube itself while being towed or does it require the engine running for lubrication? Only the latter means you need to disconnect the drive shaft while towing. | ||
| Robertl |
I agree, towing across town is nothing compared to a multi state trip. Breaking down locally usually isn't a big deal (see below). Maybe setup a test run locally to see how things go beforehand? The towing button is a nice option. Changes the shift points and helps keep it from "hunting" on the hills (it will hold the gear longer before downshifting). In the big hills (see below) I would still turn OD off. The allows the torque converter to stay locked (no slippage/extra heat). Tenn, Georgia, then Florida means you are probably coming down I75? If so, that means you will be driving through the mountains in TN (around Chattanooga-GA line). They have passing lanes but please make sure you read up on braking when towing in the mountains. I make the FL/TN/FL trip a couple times of year. My wife has to drive up the mountain or she freaks out...lol. I turn off od and use engine braking coming down the mountain no matter what vehicle we are in. With my 93 JGC I towed my friend's ski boat regularly and that was nearly 5k lbs from the info I found online. It had brakes so stopped very well but could definitely tell it was back there. 17' uhaul truck with 93 JGC on auto transport from Dallas, TX to south of Austin, TX. Had blowout on the transport and that was a 4 hr delay because they do not provide a spare. Could not get into storage place b/c of the time delay, missed a day of work, etc. 17' moving truck with 93 JGC on auto transport from Austin, TX to Pineville, LA. Surprisingly smooth trip. Same truck, swapped my 06 Wrangler Unlimited on the transport and headed to Tampa, FL. Miserable experience. The truck bucked and swayed side to side to the point we thought we were going to flip over on the side. Had to stay 60 mph or less. It was probably the way the wrangler was loaded either on the trailer or the stuff inside it. In my towing experience, over prep, take your time, and enjoy the ride. If you buy a dolly, make sure the bearings are in good shape. Changing a tire on the side of the road isn't fun but doable. Bearing goes bad and you are stuck. If you do decide to add another trans cooler, try to do it ahead of time so any leaks have time to show before your trip and can be fixed. Changing the trans fluid with synthetic would be a good idea also. I35 south in Texas is loaded with autos towing autos with tow bars heading to Mexico or near the boarder. They pick them up at auctions to rebuild. They take off the plastic bumpers and put in the back seat, then bolt a tow bar on the front. Hope that helps. | ||
| Ocbueller |
When flat towing with a tow bar use caution on driveway entries, towed vehicle can lock up front wheels lock to lock due to angles. I think the bungee suggested above will help with that. Otherwise, towed a drag car like that many years. Bolt on tabs to front of vehicle and some magnetic brake lights. Good luck. SteveH | ||
| Roderick |
So I would be running thru the mountains. I might change route to run thru NM and TX. I have been thru these flat states before. Never thought about the steering limits on the towed vehicle. If I chose the flat tow method, I will have to practice. Better find out around the neighborhood than on the road since I would be staying in hotels. Roderick | ||
| Ocbueller |
Learned the hard way that the towed vehicle needs some weight in the front, aka, a motor, to track properly. SteveH | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
This may sound bass ackwards but have you considered towing the GC with the Toy? The Jeep has a feature to put the drive train in neutral specifically for this purpose. Needs a pointy object such as ballpoint pen to activate in a wee hole next to the low range T handle. Another option is to buy a towing dolly off craigslist or similar, & then re-sell it when you get back, if you're lucky you could even make a bob or two on the deal. | ||
| Roderick |
Towing the GC with the Toy ? Not really. The Toy is a regular cab. No AC, no cruise, basic radio, and basic everything else. I bought the Toy after my Jeep CJ7 died and I since had no place to fix the CJ, I donated to the local high school. In '97, I drove the Toy from Boise to Orlando when Dad died. It was in New Year's Eve and it was not a fun drive. Then the Toy took me and my brother from Orlando to Fort Benning where we buried Dad's ashes. He was 101st and he wanted to be there. Then I drove the Toy back to Boise. It was a good truck thru all the yrs and over the country but I would not want to make that run again. As for buying a dolly, if I do so, I would rather keep it. Roderick | ||
| Etennuly |
Well here is my take on your situation. First would be a question or so about the Toyota. How long has it been sitting? How old are the tires? Do they have signs of dry rot? Can you jack it up an check wheel bearings? Check the gear oil in the rear end? Gear oil in the transfer case? Are the brakes properly functional, ie can they release completely? Jack, spare tire, wheel wrench? Your best bet is to run as light as possible, therefore flat towing is a fair choice for your situation. If you have a failure of some sort you can pick up a rental dolly or trailer along the way as a back up plan B. Rules of towing life: You cannot back up with a tow bar(steering will go stupid), you cannot back up with a tow dolly(like pushing a chain), and you cannot back up a rented trailer(they have surge brakes that will lock up with rearward pressure). Look at where you will be going out as you choose where to go in for any pull off situation. Put the transfer case in neutral, unlock the hubs, unhook the battery, unlock the steering wheel and tow slowly until you get used to the feel, and listen for a standard noise of both vehicles. Do not play music loudly, pay attention to the sounds, they will usually let you know of a problem before a failure gets out of hand. I flat towed my first two years of racing dirt track cars. With your tow vehicle you will notice instantly if you take a slow moving corner too sharply, like into a gas station or restaurant. If the towed vehicle turns too far the front tires will "lean into" the corner and go to lock. When you straighten out your Jeep you will know instantly, it will make the back end wobble and push and pull every way but straight. To correct this you simply get out and turn the towed vehicle's wheel back to straight. Not a big deal since you are unlikely to turn sharp enough to make it happen at any other than a very slow speed. Get a set of magnetic tow lights. Check their functionality at every gas stop. Check all of your tires for heat build up or lack of air pressure. I feel the tires when I make rest stops to make sure they are all warmed up the same and nothing is going bad on the tread surface. Smell each corner as you feel the tires for burning brakes or oil or grease smells. Look at brake rotors or drums for over heating, turning blue or worse. Grab the top of each tire pull in an out to feel for loose bearings. It is an anal nervous towing thing, but on anything but local trips, I do this constant checking on my tow and towed vehicle frequently. I do this quick walk around inspection in about two minutes even towing with my big truck and trailer, or motorhome and trailer, or pick up and trailer. It is free! And.....I found it is better to have to fix something pre-failure on a nice hard surface, level, lit parking lot, in civilization, than along a dark highway on a frikken hill that slopes to a ditch with trucks coming by at 80 mph! Test tow it a few days before your trip so you have time to make adjustments in your set up or plans. Monitor every aspect of the Jeep that you can when you stop and when you are running. Check fluids regularly, carry extra everything. Watch temperature gage frequently, especially on hills. When loaded I usually base up hill towing speed on engine temperature. If you get it near the hot zone make sure to cool it down at the next rest stop for a proper check of coolant level. With your planned speeds it sounds like you are off to a good start. Best of luck. | ||
| Etennuly |
Oh yeah, I'd take that bumper sticker of a Toyo front bumper off and fab up some simple brackets for the tow bar. What ever it needs to hook up. Simple is better and the more level it is between vehicles the better. Don't forget safety chains, and check the tow bar and hitch as often as you can. | ||
| Roderick |
The Toy will be in safe driving condition for the trip. Even though it was in storage, it was never completely in storage. It ran off road in the hills once or twice a month. There were time when it sat idle for a few months. But it has always been road ready. So am not worried about that. From the finances so far, it looks cheaper just to rent the one-way U-haul dolly die for about 350. A full trailer rental is nearly 700. Fuel round trip with towing rough est is 900-1000. If I can find someone to haul the Toy for the price of the dolly -- great. That is still an option. More fun for me running cross country. Roderick | ||
| Ratbuell |
Drive it and fly home. | ||
| Teeps |
Ratbuell Posted on Monday, October 26, 2015 - Drive it and fly home.  Or take a bus | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Hmmmm. Put a bike in the back of the pickup and ride home. | ||
| Etennuly |
 what he said, but wait for summer! | ||
| Roderick |
Eeek...!!! I just got a 1455 bid on uship for a one-way open carrier transport to Orlando, Fl. Roderick (Message edited by Roderick on October 28, 2015) |
