| Author | Message | ||
     Greg_e |
XB's use a bushing in the cover, not sure what is in the case but I thought it was another bushing. I tried not to pull too much stuff out of the way when I did my oil pump gear years ago and don't really remember. I do know that I didn't take any pictures of that part of the rebuild. Here is a link to the wrench I bought: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261994954934 and the text of the add (a little mysterious but figure it will make sense when I have the machine open). AN EASY-TO-USE TOOL FOR THE CHAIN TENSIONER. LOAD THE TENSIONER BY PRESSING THE SPRING IN WITH YOUR THUMB AND INSERT 1/4 ALLEN WRENCH (NOT INCLUDED) TURN UNTIL SPRING IS LOADED INTO TOOL, INSERT DOG LEG ON SPRING IN TO PLATE, AND TURN TENSIONER TOOL UNTIL EVERYTHING IS LINED UP, PUSH ON IT, AND INSERT GRENADE PIN AND PUT ON SAFETY CLIP. THEN REMOVE TOOL. And THIS TOOL IS FOR AN EXPERIENCED HARLEY MECHANIC. Guess I'm screwed  | ||
| Tootal |
If you change the inner cam bearings the installation requires that the thick flat side faces outward, or toward you. The rounded, weak side faces the crank. | ||
| Greg_e |
Pretty much changing the bearings is going to happen. If I open that cover, parts will get changed while I'm in there. What I've been reading is that later years might be OK, but still not going to take the chance of wrecking the entire motor for some inexpensive bearings and a small amount of time. This is the part I hate about used cycles, you are never really sure how well they will stay running until you've torn enough of them down to see for yourself. | ||
| Tootal |
Sounds like you've got the right idea. First thing I would do is check the compression. If that's good then continue with the cam maintenance. | ||
| Greg_e |
You really think the cylinders might be out or am I checking for valves sealing? Brought the user manual home, it's in ugly condition, looks like I need a new gasket on the top box. Bought the service manual too. Why are the HD manuals so much cheaper than the Buell manuals? I bought my Buell service manual just before it was shut down and it was around twice the price of the "touring models" manual I just brought home. | ||
| Tootal |
A compression test will give you an idea of how much life is left in the engine. The two should be within fifteen percent of each other and over 145 or so. Just remember to open the throttle wide open when checking. Your book should have the actual specs, I'm just going off the top of my head. It's just a good thing to do on any engine you're not familiar with. | ||
| Snacktoast |
A leakdown test will tell you more than a compression test will. Compression gauges vary in their accuracy. Leakdown testers don't, plus if you have 10% or more leakdown you can almost always get an idea where it's going without taking the engine apart to assess the severity of an issue. If it's leaking excessively, it's going 1 of 3 places: 1. Past the intake valves and out the throttle body 2. Past the exhaust valves and out the exhaust 3. Past the rings and into the engine and pressurizing the crankcase, which you can check by popping the crank position sensor out. I think you're on the right track with the tensioners. Hydraulic are not a must, but inspect the oil pump when you have the cam plate out. The gerotor gears are hardened steel and the pump body is aluminum. If you have heavy scoring in the pump body, it can sacrifice oil pump feed and scavenge ability. I would recommend replacing the chains when you replace the tensioners. They stretch with mileage and can force the tensioner into a "harsher" angle with the chain, which will reduce the tensioner life faster. | ||
| Zac4mac |
My opinion of the twincam is the early years sucked. The clothes-spring chain tensioners were not up to the task. and the exhaust was as small as a 883 motor. The 06+ hydraulics did the trick tho. Either go there or go gear-drive, H-D passed gears b/c of the noise but it works.... see Desmosedici I would recommend the Screaming' Eagle kit first and the Fuelling kit second. SE is better price/power but Fuelling is better.... period. Z | ||
| Tootal |
A leak down test is a great way to diagnose why you have low compression but a quick compression test will let you know real quick how much life your engine has left. In other words, if my test shows 160 and 165 on a used engine I'm going to be a happy camper.  | ||
| Greg_e |
Anyone know what years and models of ecm I can use in my 2005 Electra Glide Ultra Classic (flhtcui)? Want to get a back up brain and a tuner asap. Found both from an 07 dyna but not sure if it can work on my cycle since I lack the o2 sensors. The seller said no it won't work, but I have a feeling it would be fine with the base maps, especially if I put o2 bungs in the header. | ||
| Tootal |
Unless you're planning a lot of engine work there's really no need to tune these. The stock units are pretty bulletproof. The 07 won't work since that engine is a 96" stroker. Same pistons as yours, just a longer stroke and different cams. | ||
| Snacktoast |
Tootal, I 100% disagree with your stance on the need to tune. If you change something as basic as going to a high flow air cleaner setup, not only will the bike run better with the correct cal for the configuration, it will run cooler as well. These bikes were very lean when they were bone stock from the factory. Allowing more airflow through the engine without compensation in fueling is not smart. There is zero provision on an 05 model to self compensate for ANY changes without using some type of tuning device. | ||
| Tootal |
From what the OP said was he was going to leave it as is, or stock. I mentioned a stage one download if he changed cams but I would recommend that if the pipes and air cleaner are changed. You really don't need to do much more than that to have a nice running touring bike. He seemed to be on a budget and I don't see a need to spend a lot of cash on ecm's when there really isn't need. There's a lot of things he could do to make more power. It's just a matter of time and money. My 2002 Road Glide is a 95" motor making 108 ft. lbs. of torque. I know how to make them run well but if the guy is trying to save a buck then my advise is to just get the cam chain tensioners squared away. Make sure the compression is good and go have fun!  | ||
| Greg_e |
Nope, some already put really loud Rinehart mufflers and a 2 into 1, they also did something to the tuning because now it is so rich that it shoots flames out the pipe when it is shifted. Need to put this back to stock programming and stock mufflers. Trying to sort through all the programmers out there and figure out which ones are worth having and also supply a near stock base map. Most of them fix to a single ecm which might be OK, but I don't like it. Thinking of getting one of the more expensive systems that have wideband o2 and an autotune feature, all of them are about $800. Basically I need to unf&ck it from the last owner. (Message edited by greg_e on September 22, 2015) | ||
| Dwardo |
I second Snacktoast. When I rode to Sturgis my Road King was 100% stock. All the other bikes in the party were stage 1 modified. My bike ran HOT!. I remember coming up out of a river valley and they were all pulling away because my bike was pinging so bad I had to back off of it. There is a guy on the internet who recores stock Harley mufflers to be straight through and they come in 3 levels of loudness. I bought a pair (I forget which stage) and put a SE air cleaner on it and had it tuned. I don't know if it's any faster but it runs much better and cooler. There is a little crackle on the overrun but nothing objectionable. | ||
| Greg_e |
Even with a tuning device, I question the tuned ability to perform correctly when tuned for my location, and driven into Colorado. I can't believe that Harley could even consider leaving the o2 sensor off of a fuel for injected engine. Might as well have just stuck to a carb! I wish the ecms with wideband o2 weren't so expensive, if they were half the price is have one shipping and be looking for a welder to put the bungs in the header. | ||
| Snacktoast |
The 1st generation Delphi fuel injection system, which your bike has, will compensate for altitude changes. A carb certainly will not  The biggest key is finding someone that knows how to properly use whatever tuning system you go with and can dial it in correctly. That's where the talent lies. But once it's set, unless you change the configuration, you wont need to change it again. | ||
| Tootal |
Basically I need to unf&ck it from the last owner. Ok, now we're talking about something completely different! The Zipper's unit is really good and really expensive. My buddy who builds all kinds of engines, including Harleys, used to use them but the price and service were not too good. He has switched to the Daytona Twin Tech and has had great results. Now this is a guy who took a 120" engine and made 138 HP and 142 ft.lbs. of torque. He has many happy customers. If you're going that route then that's what I would recommend. Sorry to hear they screwed it all up. | ||
| Greg_e |
I'm hoping there is just a power commander or some other piggyback system on there, but I have a feeling it's going to be mapped in the ECU. I could get a TTS Master Tune rig, but then it's locked to that ecm which seems kind of a waste. A complete replacement might still be an option, even though expensive, and I'd want to get o2 bungs welded into the header if it doesn't have them now. Won't really know what I'm dealing with until I pick it up later this week. I keep hoping it's simple, but my luck never works out that way! | ||
| Tootal |
My guess is a Power Commander. The dealers around here really push them. My buddy's bike had one and it ran great till we got into the mountains and it looked like a diesel chugging up the hills! We disconnected it and it ran fine. The older ones could not compensate for elevation and I'm not familiar with the new ones. Hopefully you can unplug and play until you get the funds to put a self learning unit on and that's the only way I'd go IMHO. | ||
| Greg_e |
If something simple like a fuelpak or power commander I'll be happy because I can just set them to neutral and work from there. The 2-1 header is going to cause some performance increase even with the stock muffler, I also assume it has a different air filter housing, but I don't remember seeing any non-Harley logo on the cover. Really thinking I want to swap the ECM out for something that has o2 sensors and swap the header or weld the bungs in place so I get some sort of exhaust based compensation. Even if it just keeps the other sensors honest for temperature, altitude, etc. Should know more tomorrow night when I have it away from the dealer and can pull the side cover off and take a look. Going to suck if they paid a pile of money for a dyno tune and had the stock maps changed. | ||
| Greg_e |
What should have been a good and exciting purchase now looks like it will turn into a legal issue. | ||
| 86129squids |
??? | ||
| Greg_e |
Didn't want to go into details yet, got an email from the GM about 45 minutes after I wrote that and it looks like we might be able to meet somewhere in the middle. If not, then I need to make a few calls next week. I will say that it looks like the previous owner has skills only a little more advanced than Jeremy Clarkson and his fists of ham! | ||
| Tootal |
I will say that it looks like the previous owner has skills only a little more advanced than Jeremy Clarkson and his fists of ham! Now that's really bad! I remember, after they fired him, the people said, "He might be an idiot, but he's our idiot!" Really miss those guys! | ||
| Greg_e |
I should have a resolution on Monday, thought of an idea that will cost me a little, but protect me going forward, and if it needs work they will get paid. | ||
| Tootal |
How goes the war? Any luck yet?  | ||
| Greg_e |
Yes, I made a compromise with them. Bought a warranty and they gave me a discount on it. It's home, been raining since yesterday morning, and the oil cooler doesn't arrive until Thursday so can't even get the oil changed (heated grips too). It's supposed to rain everyday through the entire weekend  The warranty should protect me from catastrophic failure, or even some of the electronic devices like the cruise servo motor that doesn't have a cable on it. The whole issue arose due to some lack of disclosure about a historic error code that lit up the check engine light, and lack of cruise cable which normally means the motor failed and cause the throttle to stop working. It was sold "as is" which upon reading my states lemon laws, can not happen. Motorcycles were added to those laws in 2004, and there is no lower limit on mileage (different from a car) so I could have been a dick and forced them to fix everything at the price I bought it at, or buy it back. Didn't feel the need to be a dick as long as the expensive stuff can get fixed by the warranty. Wear items are still wear items which still gives the big discount on the price. It needs attention and wear items don't really scare me. this weekend I should be able to do a lot of work including opening the cam chest to see how the tensioners look (got both tools for the repair if needed). Researching intercom headsets today and trying to decide if I buy or build my own. Would really like a wireless system that plugs into the factory connections so I have radio and CB in addition to intercom. | ||
| Greg_e |
Finally got a chance to work on this tonight. Pulled the plugs and they were both clean but white, running a little lean (should be tan color). Put the used stock mufflers on it and fired it up, much better noise level. Drained the engine oil, need to get my jack under it for the transmission and primary oil. Scary part is the dealer sticker on the oil filter that says service 8000, this has 56,000 on it! I really hope the 5 disappeared with time. Tried to get the front header off, damn joint midway back wouldn't come apart. Ended up taking the entire exhaust system off. Lubed that joint with oil and fought with it for half an hour on the bench before I could get the front separated from the rear. Found evidence of work in the transmission, some scars where someone pried the cover off where the clutch cable connects. Also found that one of the mounting tabs on the rectifier is broken, not sure how that happened. Needed to pull it to mount the optional oil cooler, why this is optional is something I can't understand. Looks like both front and rear brakes are low on fluid, need to get a hand vacuum pump and Change the fluid. Also need to get new pads. Gave up for the night with engine oil drain plug out and catch bucket under it. Hopefully pick it up again tomorrow to continue the process to unf*ck it. | ||
| Tootal |
Well it sounds like you're doing a great job of sorting a used machine. Keep the updates coming! I'm sure you know this as it seems you know your way around, but since it's Harley related, the brake fluid is Dot 5 synthetic fluid. Nothing else will work. At least it was in 2002 and I'm assuming it didn't change by 2004 so double check that. The plugs being white is not a problem unless they look like the tip is melting. Today's fuel causes them to be lighter than what they used to be. Installing the stock mufflers should richen it a little anyway. While the plugs are out it would be a good time to check compression. Since the plugs are burning the same I'd say you're pretty safe that all is well. I just like seeing the numbers to confirm. |
