| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
Just took a quick look to see if anyone posted this before I did but didn't see anything obvious. This is from Motorcycle USA, posted yesterday (June 25, 2015): http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/2015/06/article/back marker-evan-steels-2014-superbike-season-with-ebr/ | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
It's nice to have different perspective on the whole WSB situation. It's very compelling as well. I'm inclined to believe this over anything else I've read. | ||
| 86129squids |
Well written piece, thanks for sharing. | ||
| M1combat |
It may be reasonable to call Erik's interest in sticking with the ZTL on the WSBK stage "stubborn", but... If they didn't stick with it there then there would have been no better place to be sure it was the right move. I think an insistence on sticking with the ZTL was more of a sign that Erik was willing to be in WSBK for the long haul. I still don't feel there is any hard evidence to say that the ZTL isn't on par with the rest of the brake setups on the WSBK grid. There were reports of earlier braking points but that could have been due to a number of reasons not related to the ZTL setup itself... A shorter wheel base and a bit steeper rake don't do braking distances any good. I won't jump on that side of the fence and say that the geometry was the issue... Don't get me wrong. I'm just not so sure I feel that the article looks at the situation from a truly un-biased perspective. I can't even blame the guy. If I was a member of a race team and we weren't doing good I'd likely let that color my view of why various decisions were made myself... | ||
| Stevel |
That piece was spot on. It fits my experiences in dealing with EBR and several others as well. It is a shame, it should have been better. This is what happens when pride gets in the way of progress. No one has a lock on correct. Acceptance of criticism is essential. It shouldn't be taken as a personal affront and much of it was. Evan was correct. Try it, if it works better, it is better. | ||
| Greg_e |
If the single ztl was the issue, couldn't they have made front wheels with dual ztl? That certainly would have provided enough stopping power. | ||
| 46champ |
Greg I do not think they could have ran a dual ZTL because the rotors would be bigger than the max they allow. The single rotor is bigger than the max but since there is only 1 the total swept area is smaller than a twin rotor system. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Plus the rotational mass/gyro effect would be enormous. | ||
| Greg_e |
Didn't know they had an area/size rule. Not sure the gyroscopic force would be any more than a much beefier wheel would bring, remember that the center "spokes" on the Buell wheel can be this thin because the force from braking is all contained to the area where the tire mounts. Hub mounted rotors need to transfer from the tire to the hub, needing stronger and heavier wheels. But heat dissipation on two rotors/calipers would definitely be better than a single ztl, and that might be the biggest performance gain. | ||
| Stevel |
One of the issues with the ZTL design is the difficulty in making a thin disc of that diameter so that is stays straight after repeated heating and cooling. Metalurgically, this is difficult as this heating and cooling creates internal stresses and warping. Even if after manufacturing the disc is internally stress free (Annealed), it would likely not remain so in use. Further, hard fastening the disc to the wheel aggravates the problem, as the disc must be allowed to readily expand with temperature, just as the stock disc was originally mounted. The hard mount mod from EBR is bull shit. What little heat that might be dissipated through convection to the wheel is insignificant. I do believe that a hard faced titanium disc would be better and it could be used in a dual configuration without increasing the gyroscopic effect very much over a single steel disc. The Hunt iron coated aluminum discs of the '70s were the best discs I ever experienced for feel and effectiveness. | ||
| Jaimec |
But don't the rules REQUIRE a steel disc? I think a hard-coded titanium disc would be in violation of the rules (same reason they can't use a carbon disc like the MotoGP racers). | ||
| Hughlysses |
The hard mount mod from EBR is bull shit. The updated mounting system is not truly "hard", it just allows a whole lot less float than the original. The Belleville spring washers allow some movement of the disk. | ||
| Stevel |
Jaimec, Probably so, unless they were incorporated in the standard sold bike and then approved, but my statement has to do with best performance including the street. Carbon discs simply do not work on the street, as they don't work well when cold. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Plus the carbon rotor cost like $15K a piece or something ridiculous like that... |
