| Author | Message | ||
     Greatlaker |
Walter Scott, a retired Coast Guard sailor, was stopped by the North Charleston police for a broken taillight, and was dead moments later. He was shot in the back. One more name, one more civilian killed by American exceptionalism. No one is sure exactly how many people die at the hands of the police in the United States every year. Last month, a White House task force created by President Barack Obama in the wake of the riots in Ferguson, Mo., recommended that the federal government should try to count, by collecting these data from local police forces. Notionally, the FBI already has this responsibility and it reports that the number hovers around 400 deaths per year. But an online effort to collect media accounts of fatal police encounters, and to crowd-source the fact-checking, has arrived at a much more grim and more widely accepted figure: more than 1,100 killed in 2014. There are many factors that help to explain why American police kill civilians at a dramatically higher rate than in any other developed country, but three deserve special attention as being unique to the United States. First, there are more guns per capita in the United States than in any other country in the world. Estimates vary from 270 million to 310 million legal and illegal guns in circulation. This provides almost one gun for every man, woman and child. A recent study in the American Journal of Public Health reported that one in three households contains a gun. This is down from one in two in the 1970s, but gun ownership is still 35 per cent higher than the next-highest country: Serbia. This directly changes the way that American police forces operate. With so many civilians carrying guns, is it surprising that the police shoot first and ask questions later? In fact, American police are at relatively more peril than their counterparts elsewhere. According to the FBI (so perhaps take this with a grain of salt), approximately 50 officers are “feloniously killed” in the line of duty each year. This has, understandably, created a police culture that is both defensive and aggressive. One small example that illustrates this involves car chases. In the United Kingdom, police cars box in fleeing vehicles and use “rolling roadblocks” to force them to stop. But American police, assuming all suspects are armed, use the more violent and potentially lethal “PIT manoeuvre” to swerve into the rear bumper of the car being chased, sending it crashing off the road. The second factor is that America remains one of the most racially divided countries in the world. Last year, the Public Religion Research Institute released a study showing that the average white American has 91 times more white friends than black ones. In fact, three-quarters of whites don’t even have one black friend. This racial divide has real consequences. For most white cops, their references for understanding black Americans must come from second-hand sources or popular media; in other words, from rumour and rap songs. This is something that needs to be considered when trying to understand why young, black males are 21 times more likely to be shot by the police than their white counterparts, as revealed by the analysis of independent news organization ProPublica. The third uniquely American factor is the embattled-hero mythology that surrounds the police. In no country are the cops as lionized as they are in the United States. Not even Canadians, who place the “Mounties” at the centre of their national identity, elevate the police to such heights. From The Lone Ranger to Hill Street Blues and CSI: Miami, American culture has constructed a pervasive narrative of the imperilled but noble police officer, courageously risking his life every day on the thin blue line between civilization and murderous chaos. But this portrayal is very misleading. In reality, America is not being threatened by criminal anarchy. While the number of civilians being shot by police has never been higher, incidents of violent crime have dropped more than 50 per cent since the 1990s. Yet local police increasingly arm themselves with preposterously lethal equipment. Consider the small town of Sweetwater, Fla. It has a population of only 13,000, slightly smaller than that of Kenora, Ont. Yet the local police force has its own SWAT team, a mine-resistant armoured vehicle, a “commando” armoured car, four light attack helicopters, 20 M16 machine guns and a grenade launcher. These weapons were never designed to “serve and protect”; they are only suited for killing and conquering. And the myth of heroism? In spite of all the guns, being a policeman in America is actually a relatively safe profession. Loggers, roofers, carpenters, farmers, construction labourers, even garbagemen, are far more likely to be killed on the job. But when they die in the service of the community, there are no televised funerals, no flag-draped coffins. Alexis de Tocqueville was right when he wrote about American exceptionalism in 1835. It is a remarkable nation with countless unique qualities that other countries struggle to emulate. But it has uniquely dangerous problems, too, which can combine into toxic moments, such as the one we watched last week, as Walter Scott ran away, stumbled, then fell, six bullets in his back. | ||
| Snowscum |
How many are felons? | ||
| Strokizator |
Wow, it's been a week since you told us why you're better than everyone in the US. Sorry I wasn't able to read the entire post. Was there anything new? | ||
| Rick_a |
That piece is so very poorly written. Where to begin? Sure...let's disregard FBI statistics for starters... | ||
| Snacktoast |
It would be nice to know who wrote it poorly. Who/What is the source? | ||
| Reindog |
Don't feed the troll. | ||
| Snacktoast |
If he's trolling, why does he still have a login here? | ||
| Fast1075 |
The day I turned 16, I officially got the keys to the car that myself and my father had been working on to fix up since I was 13. My father's advice: "Boy, I know you are going to get pulled over. When that happens, turn off the engine, roll down the window and sit with your hands on the wheel. Then do EXACTLY what the officer says to do". Good advice. As a genuine dyed in the wool rubber burning born hooligan, I had frequent encounters with Mr. John Law in my youth. Had I ran, tried to fight, tried to run over, or any other seriously stupid thing, it could have gone very bad. Stupid goes clean to the bone. Stupid with a cop can earn you a Darwin award, especially in this day and age where "some" of our citizens think that killing an arresting officer is a good way to get away. Hint: it helps if you can recognize insignia of rank, and not call a Captain "officer". And FHP troopers like to be called trooper, not officer. | ||
| Ducbsa |
From the Wikipedia article on Walter Scott, it appears that there are no angels in the story and it isn't as clear cut a case of murder as GL would like it to be. Suggestion: have a trial, with the jury hearing sworn evidence, rather than just lynch the cop. Lynch mobs were certainly popular with Democrats in the past and seem to be making a comeback with the Progressives. | ||
| Aesquire |
Current local trial of a murder of a police officer has had testimony the ex-con murderer saying publicly he would kill a cop rather than go back to jail. Notice I didn't use the word "alleged". Murder was on multiple cameras. Much of Greatlaker's post above is outright lies in that editorial. Apparently as is his understanding of.... a lot. | ||
| Dwilson357 |
Greatlaker your logic on Americans possessing guns is over the top. Cops shoot people because they have a higher chance of being armed already? That's like throwing a pit maneuver on a traffic stop for a taillight being out because the "offender" may run. Troll feeding over, sorry guys! | ||
| Rick_a |
Like the rest of the world the progressives here (I.E. friendlier, gentler communists) want to make it all about the gun. That is not a solution but a convenient way to push lies for an agenda.
To be more concise they aren't even selling safety, but the illusion of it. I like to think of the police as regular folks like you and me with a tougher, shittier job (that's not a knock, I really wouldn't want to do it). The divides our elected officials and media are attempting to create or widen in concert are troubling. | ||
| Reindog |
Stop feeding the troll. Aesquire, especially you, because you know better. I normally don't respond to him anymore except for troll warnings but I am disappointed in Aesquire for playing his game. If you simply ignore this simpleton, he will eventually go away. This fool has physically threatened Badweb members and should be banned. | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
How about we see how many whites die at the hands of blacks, then see how many blacks die at the hands of whites? Then ask why isnt this an issue being splashed across the news media. We had a white veteran riding his bike attacked by a group of black men. They stomped him to death. They went on to a nearby park and attack a white father of two children and put him in a coma. This didnt even make the front page of our paper. Its just common for black people to kill whites that no one pays any attention. If the races had been reversed they would be burning our city down. What makes black people so precious? | ||
| Hootowl |
^ Because black lives matter. Unless you're a young black male. Then they don't. See black on black murder rates. | ||
| Pwnzor |
What about the white girl that was gang raped and burned to death by blacks a few months ago? Where are the riots for her? | ||
| Rick_a |
Does not fit the agenda, does not get coverage, party cronies remain silent. I don't think anyone cares about the troll. At this point it's a discussion. | ||
| Mnscrounger |
I want to address Greatlakers comment on regarding the up-arming of the police in Sweetwater FL as being too much, and the result of civilian gun ownership. The following I may have posted elsewhere on this forum, but it's mostly (with a few edits) a cut and past of my comments in another forum: I'm not claiming any expertise on the subject here. I'm neither military or police, But I have been to a few local police sponsored lectures on the lessons learned from terrorism, mass shootings, and how they apply to police roles in America. As a CCW instructor, I do think often about the role of armed citizens, and the police, in a polite society. To members of the police ranks, you have my admiration, and respect. I find your career choice interesting, but I doubt I'd enjoy actually doing it for more than a week or two. We are seeing a trend in " up armoring" the police forces. Police are not just keepers of the community peace, locking up drunks, and shooing away vagrants. In a post 9/11 world, they are also our first responders to terrorism. Examples: Mumbai, Beslan, and lets throw in the Kenya Westgate mall. In all of those cases, there were combat trained attackers, determined to kill as many innocents as possible before meeting their own end. Taking police and other forces with them was just a bonus. A standard equipped patrolman would be poorly matched against a force of even a handful of hardened, equipped, trained combatants. Fortunately, that hasn't happened in America, but we would be naive to think there aren't people somewhere planning exactly that. Since Columbine, when an active shooter call comes in, the police are trained to engage immediately, rather than set a perimeter as in the past. Historically this tactic almost always causes the attacker to give up, take their own life, or have the police do it. In any case the violence is ended quickly. In the case of a Mumbai style attack, the first cop on the scene would be over-matched, and out-gunned. There seems a strong likelihood they may not survive, but might be able to inform the other officers responding that this is not a "typical" untrained, lone, active shooter. Those officers would then need to equip themselves for a genuine combat role, not a police role. Unless we are willing to have the National Guard Armorys, staffed 24/7 like a firehouse, trained, and equipped to respond to such a threat, I don't see an alternative. I also believe there may be a tendency for police forces serving warrants to use their cool gear just because it's there. APCs, flash bang grenades, and 20 officers through the front and back door simultaneously, for a 20 year old stoner pot dealer, seems a bit heavy handed to my mind. But if I were on the cop side of the door, I bet I'd want an overwhelming force, to make sure I got home safe at the end of the day too. Lastly, your suggestion that the police "assume" everyone is armed due to the proclivity of guns is no less true than anywhere else in the world. Its the presumption law enforcement types have at every first contact for their own safety. SIT STILL WHEN THE OFFICER IS TALKING AND YOU WONT GET SHOT! If your civil rights were violated in the process, there are lots of lawyers who will represent you on contingency. Rant over. | ||
| Tankhead |
Aesquire, especially you, because you know better. I normally don't respond to him anymore except for troll warnings but I am disappointed in Aesquire for playing his game. People can respond if they choose to can't they? It's a discussion. Relax. If you saw that he was the poster why on earth did you respond or read it for that matter? Passing judgement on others because they want to respond to a post? Dude I think it might be time for you to step away from the computer for a bit. WOW (Message edited by tankhead on April 30, 2015) (Message edited by tankhead on April 30, 2015) | ||
| Hootowl |
"I do think often about the role of armed citizens, and the police, in a polite society." Too bad we no longer live in a polite society. That is the real reason, not the three ridiculous assertions stated by the OP in his unattributed diatribe. | ||
| Hootowl |
Found it. Wasn't difficult. http://www.macleans.ca/politics/worldpolitics/walt er-scott-is-dead-the-cause-american-exceptionalism / | ||
| Aesquire |
The article is a fraud. Cherry picked partial statistics and bias against the U.S. and civil rights. I'll respond to Reindog later with a real keyboard without autocorrect. He may be amused. Black vs. White crime? Wrong perspective. This isn't about numbers or truth. This is simply evil using envy and hate to get power and wealth. A deliberately created underclass told repeatedly they are not capable of being productive and moral. Blame for their actions is always pointed at a domestic enemy..... the 1%'s, Jews, Republicans, Immigrants. ... the list is endless, the results the same. See Bill Whittle's Afterburner video on the Baltimore thread. The bad guy In this thread is the lying sack who wrote the article. Greatlaker just needs to take his meds every day. Most of the rampage suicides since Columbine have been people off their meds or on bad combinations. It's a very experimental part of medicine. | ||
| Rick_a |
Most of the APC's, SWAT vehicles, and small arms proliferating every county PD across America have come via grant from our great government.
...and why efforts and attention are not focused on this instead of eroding the rights of citizens and now police?  | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
There is no reason to respond to this sort of lazy B.S. copy a large chunk of his original post, paste it into google, put quotes around it and hit search. lots of hits. no need to feed his idiocy. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Here is the oldest hit: http://www.macleans.ca/politics/worldpolitics/walt er-scott-is-dead-the-cause-american-exceptionalism / | ||
| Reindog |
Guys, I actually could care less if you choose to respond to the troll but you are only encouraging him. You have probably noticed that the original post doesn't cite a source and that he has not responded to defend his mudslinging. He is laughing at you behind his modem and keyboard in his virtual parent's basement as all trolls do. I choose to not encourage trolls and I will give this one in particular a hard time as he has made physical threats against a Badweb member. It is astonishing that he has not been banned. | ||
| Hootowl |
 It was time. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Nicely played. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
F*** off. I don't care about black lives. I don't care about your life. I care about MY life and if caring about my life somehow affords you the same protections then that's great but I will not allow my personal safety and life to be decided by others. There are many personal stories being shared by shop owners in Baltimore City of being physically assaulted by thugs during the riot. One, in fact, said not only was his store burned but the thugs also threw gasoline on him in an attempt to light him on fire. The Police never responded to any of these threats. If YOU want to put your safety into the hands of an incompetent and corrupt government, fine, but don't tell me I must do so, too. I'm keeping my guns, thanks | ||
| Aesquire |
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