| Author | Message | ||
     Ratbuell |
Just got a call from my tenant - no hot water. Not surprised, I did not replace the water heater when I renovated the 1950's apartment...frankly...because I was flat broke by then, and I figured I'd see how long it lasted. Now...I know. So. Any advice? Electric unit, municipal water. No gas on-site so that's not an option. 2 bedroom apartment, kitchen, single bath, washer/dryer. Currently has (I think) a 50 gal unit. It's a rental. I want RELIABLE over "instant". Space is no concern, it's in the basement, plenty of room. Anyone have experience with electric "tankless" heaters? Regular electrics? Any brands better than another? The local mega-house-center is a Lowe's but I can go "the other way" and hit a Home Depot. Or...is it viable / worth the effort to troubleshoot and do a repair? Patty tells me the breaker did not trip, they just don't have hot water. Should I even try replacing an element? The building was a foreclosure; I bought it after probably 3 or 4 years of vacancy. Gawd only knows what all this unit has been through. I do know the basement (where the unit lives) saw at least 18" of standing groundwater, when the bank shut off the power (and the sump pump) at some point, and the basement flooded...for who knows how long. But, the tank doesn't leak, and Patty's been in there since July with plenty of hot water till tonight. I dunno. I'm tired. Broke. Frustrated. And...apparently replacing (and/or servicing) a water heater on Saturday.  | ||
| Chauly |
Check the element with an ohmmeter. Replacements are easy and cheap. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Yeah, looking online replacement 4500W elements are all of $12. I just need to see what the diagnostic procedure is... Worst case, 50 gal "6 year" dual element units are only $250, plus most of a Saturday's install time. | ||
| Hootowl |
As stated above, it's likely just an element. Not much else can go wrong with an electric water heater. Most have two, one above the other. | ||
| Two_seasons |
Replace it. Troubleshooting doesn't solve the problem because every hour without hot water is irritating to them. Then, you won't get a call for that problem again for several years! Have it done, write it off. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Actually I'm very lucky, tenant-wise. Conversation tonight (Thursday, 10pm): "OK, well...I can't do anything tonight because nothing's open and I already took two days off this week for a friend's surgery...can I come by tomorrow evening to check it out?" "Oh, I don't have to work till six tomorrow night and I can shower at my sisters house...and he can go to his mom's...we'll have some dirty dishes, but it's no problem, don't get in trouble at work over this." "OK, so...can you plan on having hot water by Saturday night? Is that alright, or should I try to get there tomorrow during the day sometime?" "No...saturday is awesome...thank you!!" ...kinda makes me wonder what their last landlord was like, but I'll take it. | ||
| Aesquire |
Replace the elements. Get the heavy duty corrosion resistant ones. $59? Also the corrosion anode rod. Flush the tank. When I moved into my fairly new home the sediment was over the lower element. In a 38 gallon low profile heater. Once you get the elements out and the anode rod out you can see how much sediment. On an older heater you may not want to touch the anode. Once I pulled my elements I could see mine was shot. Totally. The elements come out easy. The anode will probably be very annoying. I had to get the Harbor Freight wheel lug socket set to get the right size socket to pull the anode rod. It took an electric impact wrench and cursing to get out the wire thin remains. Well water. The sheet metal socket from Home Despot is a bad joke. There are a couple different anode formulas. Ask at a local plumbing supply store. The big box store may not have the best one for local water. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Good tips. As I pondered it overnight, I figured I'll try elements first - at least testing them for resistance to see if that'll be an easy fix. No tripped breaker, no leaks...silly to replace if the tank is still good. Anode...we'll see. I know they're a PITA, and if it's an old-old unit (have to check the dates on it) it may not be worth the hassle. It is city water, so should be fairly "mild" mineral-wise. We'll see in the morning. Wheeee  | ||
| Pwnzor |
My brother has a tankless heater in his house. Takes FOREVER for the hot water to come to the faucet... but then it lasts forever. | ||
| Aaron_thomas |
If your going to replace the element or elements, replace the thermostat also. Many times you replace the elements without replacing the stats, you will be back. Just get it done all at once. don't bother with the anode rod. It does not affect the water heater heating ability. It just helps protect against tank corrosion. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Yea, repairing the old heater definitely makes sense. If the tank's not rusted out, no need to replace it. Electric tankless heaters really only make sense for "limited demand" applications. We use them in business and industrial applications sometimes when there's a single stall restroom off by itself in a big building so you don't have to run ~200 feet of hot water line (which would be like Pwnzor's brother's setup and take forever to get hot water). A small tankless heater like this (to serve one faucet) is about the size of a package of 8-1/2 x 11 printer paper and doesn't need a huge amount of power. A tankless heater eliminates "standby" losses, since you're not trying to keep 50 gallons of water hot 24/7 whether you need it right then or not. Gas ones are great. A comparable electric tankless heater (one big enough to serve an entire house) takes a LOT of amperage to operate. You trade using a little power semi-continuously for using a LOT of power only when you need it. If you replace a large tank type electric heater with an electric tankless heater, you'll almost certainly have to run new wiring from your breaker panel and replace the breaker serving it, and there's a good chance you'd find you don't have sufficient capacity in the main panel, which would necessitate replacing that (etc, etc.). It quickly turns into a very expensive job. | ||
| Aaron_thomas |
Your small electric on demand or "tankless" electric units require 2 40 amp breakers to run the heating elements. A single 80 will not work | ||
| Ratbuell |
Yeah, no tankless here - it runs a bathroom, kitchen, and clothes washer. I've got a handle on testing elements (continuity check - open=dead) and testing the upper and lower thermostats (open=off or broken; closed=functioning, if set for max temp). Elements (4500W) are like $12 each according to lowes.com. I can't see thermostats being much more - it's a whirlpool, dated 2004, and the model number still googles as a current number. Top mount anode, too...but I'll make it work again first before I muck with that. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I used to work with a guy that was a huge proponent of replacing the anode on a periodic basis. He claimed that the only reason tanks ever rust out is that the anode completely dissolves and then the tank rusts out. Yet hardly anyone replaces them. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Is that why it's called a sacrificial anode? lol | ||
| Ratbuell |
Well a $27 "tuneup kit" from Lowe's got it all fixed up. Love it when they don't fight back | ||
| Aesquire |
I've got well water that could be used to transport iron with better efficiency than the Edmund Fitzgerald. Tapped into a vein of ore that stretches across several states, and, I am told, is related to the formation of oxygen in the Earth's atmosphere quite some time ago. My 3 to 5 year old anode was 2 thin steel wires covered in minerals. when I moved in. I replaced it with a Lowes rod, and changed it one year later. Shot. Then went to a plumbing supply store, and got a different formula rod, aluminum & magnesium. Instant change. went from flushing the tank once a month to 2-3 times a year, and what used to be a hand full of white pellets became a thimblefull of black dust. Most folk on city water don't have the same problems. And as Hughlysses points out, the tanks don't rust until the rod is dead. Then it gets wet. | ||
| Hootowl |
Have you thought about getting a water softener? They can remove iron as well. | ||
| Aesquire |
Water softener and a Manganese green sand filter. |
