| Author | Message | ||
     Firstbuell |
Che Guevara's son guides Cuba Harley tours ".....The different trips offered are called “Motorcycle Diaries” in reference to the 2004 movie about his father riding a Norton 500.....Tour prices start at US $3000. The multi-day tours include rides in the varied landscapes of Cuba, a visit to his father mausoleum and stays at five-star hotel....." http://cyrilhuzeblog.com/2014/12/11/...tours-of-cu ba/ | ||
| Aesquire |
I suppose it's nice to know that some Capitalistic Pig is making money from the legacy of a racist mass murderer. Come to think of it, lots of Pigs make money on Che. I'm always amused to inform people with his face on a shirt how great a guy he was. Made a typical Klansman look like Mother Teresa. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Che was a man of the people! Just probably not your or my kind of people. | ||
| Tod662 |
Please inform me of what a horrible person he was. | ||
| Aesquire |
Besides rape torture murder genocide loving the firing squad and a deep hatred for Negros and other lower breeds? He rode a Ducati? Hard to fault him for that. | ||
| Tod662 |
He had Cubans of African decent in his army, and as advisors, He went to the Congo to spread his workers rebellions. This doesn't seem like racism to me. Just because Marko Rubio wants to bad mouth him to gain support in little Havana doesn't make his statements true. Please substantiate your claims, with sources if you would. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
"The blacks, those magnificent examples of the African race who have maintained their racial purity thanks to their lack of an affinity with bathing, have seen their territory invaded by a new kind of slave: the Portuguese. And the two ancient races have now begun a hard life together, fraught with bickering and squabbles. Discrimination and poverty unite them in the daily fight for survival but their different ways of approaching life separate them completely: The black is indolent and a dreamer; spending his meager wage on frivolity or drink; the European has a tradition of work and saving, which has pursued him as far as this corner of America and drives him to advance himself, even independently of his own individual aspirations." | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
"Given the prevailing lack of discipline, it would have been impossible to use Congolese machine-gunners to defend the base from air attack: they did not know how to handle their weapons and did not want to learn." | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
"We're going to do for blacks exactly what blacks did for the revolution. By which I mean: nothing." | ||
| Court |
Damn facts. | ||
| Court |
But . . then . . . I've spent a good part of the week laughing as the SAME Diane Feinstein, the one who sat on the House Intelligence Committee . . got the top secret briefings on the intimate details of what was going on and said . . .
Some libs create their faux heroes out of very unlikely candidates. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
As the years pass, it becomes harder and harder to blame Bush. The pressing, vitally important security report that HAD to be released ASAP, was from 2012. The release is simply intended to tarnish Republicans following the sound thumping in the second mid-term election and loss of Senate control. | ||
| Tod662 |
When and where were these statements made. I don't consider the Internet a viable source. Words can easily be taken out of context, actions speak much louder. I am aware of some of the arguments that are going to be made. Instead of 40 Google searches and a cut and paste hack job, let's have a real discussion. The Congo machine gunner comment isn't racist it's a complaint about untrained troops. I dint have time to look at the background of your other statements but words are words, his actions s don't equal the monster you picture. Did he call for the death of 150 people during the revolution of Cuba, yes. Not cool,at the same time he was starting schools and hospitals. how many deaths did he cause compared to the average US president? | ||
| Tod662 |
Yes I want facts. Real facts. And how about we try to have a back and forth discussion. Point counter point. You guys are just going to drown me in Internet bs, but I'll try. R Harder and harder to blame bush WOW where are the weapons of mass destruction. There is no real evidence there was any but there is substantial evidence that he knew that. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Tod, Bush hasn't been in office for 6 years, Republicans haven't been in control of Congress for 8. At some point in time the problems and issues are on the Progressives dime. The American people aren't buying the "it's Bush's fault" line any more. | ||
| Tod662 |
"We're going to do for blacks exactly what blacks did for the revolution. By which I mean: nothing." this statement is not admissible as evidence as it can not be shown to actually have been said by him. and the Indolent black statement was written when he was 24 and had not yet traveled extensively. Im sure there is nothing on here anybody has said that could be taken out of context that could be seen as hateful? right? (and at 24 we all knew it all right) So back to the rape pillage and murder, Please inform me of what a horrible person he was. And yes I want facts. how about one or two substantiated personal statements and then let me respond? | ||
| Court |
Start with the EASY facts . . .how we doing closing Gitmo? . . . . how about cutting that $8T national debt in half . . you know . . the one candidate obama called "unpatriotic". This guy and some of the sitting gems are such liars that I confess I'm enjoying just watching them trip over themselves. | ||
| Sifo |
When and where were these statements made. I don't consider the Internet a viable source. Those quotes are attributed to his 1952 diary. The Congo machine gunner comment isn't racist it's a complaint about untrained troops. Read it again. It's about troops that don't want to bother to be trained. Far worse too. Given what passes for racism today, trying to claim that these statements are NOT racist is hysterical. | ||
| Sifo |
He had Cubans of African decent in his army, and as advisors, He went to the Congo to spread his workers rebellions. This doesn't seem like racism to me. So speaking poorly of a particular race, then using them for cannon fodder doesn't seem like racism to you? We certainly have a different world view. | ||
| Tod662 |
only the long quote is from his diary. the diary of a 24 year old medical student in the poor part of town for the first time. what do you think was routinely written in newspapers at the time? much more narrow-minded hate filled terms. So sifo no making a uneducated statement then years later leading the battle for what you believe in while staring death in the eye, with the people you claim he hated does not equate to racism to me | ||
| Aesquire |
WOW where are the weapons of mass destruction  Wow, you are ignorant of current events, aren't you? NY Time spazzed out when they "found out" that there were THOUSANDS of poison gas shells and rockets in storage at the facility the Brits built to incinerate the WMD's. FURIOUS that Bush "didn't tell them". Don't ask me why Bush the Younger didn't publicize the poison gas. Ask him next time you chat. Funny thing, many of us who paid attention knew about the poison gas shells. Multiple time they were used by mistake by AQ for IEDs. ( Saddam scattered them through his conventional shells to hide them from the UN inspectors during the Clinton years ) Lucky for us the IEDs were not set up properly to mix & spread the poison, so very few U.S. troops got hurt by them. Not sure how many Iraqis AQ murdered that way. Plenty of U.S. troops were injured by leaking poison gas shells and rocket artillery however. THAT is going to take years to straighten out. Those troops deserve the best of care, and under both Bush and Obama are not getting it. ( because the VA system is Corrupt and badly run ) Also I knew about the mustard gas found by the Polish troops, ( great ally, too bad Obama screwed them ) and the incinerator the Brits built to destroy them. Why didn't you? You want to know how awesome a hero Che was? Read his biography, and then read his diary. He hated negros, didn't much like the native Americans, and was as cynical a Fu&^ as you could ask for his final days. Those early idealistic times passed quickly as he threw himself whole heartedly into mass murder, exploitation of the locals, and the construction of a pile of lies to define his legacy. You, it seems, have swallowed the propaganda of the worst mass murdering fiends in history. | ||
| Greatlaker |
Aesquire. Are you talking about this NY Times article? http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/worl d/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapon s.html?_r=0 | ||
| Aesquire |
Not that one alone. so... no, and yes. Utterly unacceptable that we don't treat our employees in the Services properly. This isn't close to the first time political crap made getting proper treatment for hazardous chemical exposure hard. Not good then, not good now. Feel free to write your Congresscritter and protest. ( just make sure you are protesting based on truth, facts, not propaganda ) | ||
| Malott442 |
Why were those 150 or so Cubans executed without trial? What was his compensation for helping convert Cuba to communism? How many innocent civilians did he go out of his way to execute for not giving up their freedom of speech, religion, etc..? I don't think anyone knows the real reason. The sands of time and the hands of political influence have shaped several exaggerated versions of his life. I do know one thing: Putting any political extremist on a pedestal is misguided and dangerous. Communism had good intentions. Human greed and perpetual onsets of self serving dogma will forever prevent communism from actually making a society free or happy. In my personal, misguided, closed-minded, and misinformed opinion, Che was a monster turned into a martyr and hero by his fellow thugs. | ||
| Sifo |
Tod, the racist quote about the Congo machine gunner is from a later diary he kept from '65-'67. Much later than his immature views from '52. You seem to bounce between denial that these are Che's words, and denial that these words are racist. I don't know where you are going to settle on this, but they seem to be his words, and any reasonable person would admit that the statement is pretty much the definition of racism. As for the idea that he can't be racist because they were his brothers in arms, well that's just completely absurd reasoning. He was using what ever tools he had available to advance his agenda. It's been done countless times through history. BTW, attributing this to Marko Rubio seems to make it clear that you think this is some recent re-invention of Che. It's not. Perhaps it's new to you, but not to most. Attend college in Madison did you? | ||
| Greatlaker |
Aesquire. Perhaps you could post a link to the NY Times article you mentioned. The article that I linked to certainly isn't an affirmation of weapons of mass destruction. Unless you call crumbling and degraded munitions sold to Iraq by France, Belgium and the USA prior to 1991 as weapons of mass destruction. The only thing lethal about the munitions found in Iraq as noted by the NY Times article was the residual chemicals that leaked out of them as they were handled by U.S. service personnel trying to dispose of them by hand. Are these the weapons of mass destruction to which you are referring? http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/10/17/right- wing-medias-failed-attempt-to-justify-ira/201216 | ||
| Greatlaker |
I found this article fairly quickly in regards to Che. http://www.quora.com/Was-Che-Guevara-a-racist-and- homophobic | ||
| Pwnzor |
Because Media Matters isn't biased... correct? You're joking. Gotta be. Even the NY Times describes it thus: "Media Matters has given the Democrats a rapid-fire, technologically sophisticated means to call out what it considers misinformation on air or in print." Next you'll be telling me all about how Snopes is the definitive interweb fact checker. LOL | ||
| Aesquire |
Che's attitude towards blacks was informed in the late 50's by the Soviet race war strategy. A strategy which continues to this day. Notice Putin's comments.......and Obama's. | ||
| Sifo |
I found this article fairly quickly in regards to Che. http://www.quora.com/Was-Che-Guevara-a-racist-and- homophobic Well that's certainly a balanced view. I had no idea that Che got so may laws passed while fighting in the jungles. How does that work in a dictatorship? Funny thing, I picked one to look into, the "law 270". For any good it did, it was nothing but stealing resorts from the private owners and declaring them to be government property. It wasn't about racial issues, it was about stealing wealth. Seriously, do you folks ever ask yourself, if it's so great living in communist Cuba, why the f*ck do people put themselves at such mortal risk to flee to the US by the thousands each year? Have you ever looked at the risks these people take to flee Cuba? They often are using means that will more than likely result in death at sea, yet they find the risk worthwhile. WHY? How many make any effort to "flee" to Cuba? I await your reasoned answers. |
