| Author | Message | ||
     Ratbuell |
Great info for a "newbie" who grew up using iron sights on 22LR's  I'd seen Nikon on some units, and shoot Nikon SLR/DSLR cameras exclusively...just didn't know if they translated well into hunting optics. | ||
| Aesquire |
Nikon very good to excellent. Prices can be a bit high but you pay for multicoated lenses. | ||
| Rick_a |
Some of the mid priced optics have lenses and other parts from Japan. Those tend to be pretty good. Those made entirely in Japan (often re branded) are quite good as well. A lot of the Nikon lenses, and some of Vortex and Weaver's line is made in Japan. | ||
| Ceejay |
Since it's sort of in line with what were typing about, how's a 5.56/.223 round compare to a 20 ga single with target load? I've been eyeballing a few 22LR's for the youngsters to learn on but if I bumped up to a .223 we can hunt with it too, at least for now. The girls(wife and daughter) enjoyed the 20 ga. but I never shot a 5.56/.223 so I don't know how the felt recoil compares... | ||
| Ceejay |
oops, never mind, .223 won't work for hunting any who. Gotta be .23 in VA. | ||
| Rick_a |
300 BO would be a similar cartridge that'd be good for target, hunting, and/or suppressor use. Recoil is minimal. Ammunition is a little pricey and can be hard to find compared to 223. | ||
| Blake |
5.56x45/.223 has very little recoil. I see youngsters shooting the 5.56/.223 AR15 with dad all the time at the range. A 20 gauge single is a light weight firearm. Probably not much if any heavier than a fully loaded AR15 with a 30 rd magazine. Recoil, all else equal, is proportional to bullet mass times muzzle velocity, aka "momentum". 1LB = 16 oz = 7,000 gr 1 oz = 7,000/16 gr = 437.5 gr The momentum of 62 gr x 3,000 FPS = 186,000 The momentum of 437.5 gr x 1,200 FPS = 525,000 There's a lot more to the felt recoil than that, but it gives a fair idea. The shotgun will probably kick at least three times as hard, maybe more. If you have to go to a .243, just put a muzzle break on it, and your good to go for the youngsters. That is a spectacular cartridge. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Ratbuell, This is worth checking out. The price is reasonable, it has many great features and performs well. Even better it will shoot either .223 or 5.56 NATO. Hopefully you can find a way to get around the legal issues of the standard issue 30 round magazine in your state. With the discount I can get I'm thinking it will be my next rifle. Not to be confused with the much more expensive Ruger SR556. http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-AR556.htm The guy in the video is a lefty so... G | ||
| Gregtonn |
Oh and, just for the record, 5.56 NATO and .223 rounds are not interchangeable in many rifles. G | ||
| Gregtonn |
For those who doubt there is a difference maybe this will help. http://www.gundigest.com/ammunition-reviews-articl es/223-vs-5-56/4 G | ||
| Reepicheep |
In Ohio you can now hunt with some straight walled pistol cartridges. That could make for a fun carbine, and a pistol cartridge out of a long barrel will deliver a lot of energy at shorter ranges. I don't know if it is still the case, but .223 ammo gets a bit pricey for plinking, so I'd start with the .22 LR regrardless, and then maybe add a bigger caliber later. It will pay for itself in ammo savings alone ($10 for 50 rounds of .22 is "expensive", while $20 for 50 rounds of any pistol cartridge is "cheap", and rifle cartridges can end up costing you $1 per shot. | ||
| Ratbuell |
22 isn't really an option around here. Firearms, sure...ammo? 'nother story. Walmart, for example, has a sign: "22 ammunition limited to 1 box per customer per day". Taped to the empty shelf where 22 should be. | ||
| Etennuly |
There is a shortage in my area as well. I think the ammo makers are making a price adjustment across the country. The shortage will be over in the near future and you will be able to buy it again just as it happened with all of the other caliber ammo last year. Also.....most reputable gun stores will hold back ammo for whatever guns they are selling. I'd bet you would get at least a 100 pack with a purchase. If you want a truly enjoyable gun to shoot look into a modern muzzle loading shot gun with slugs. | ||
| Blake |
Bill, >>> while $20 for 50 rounds of any pistol cartridge is "cheap" Good grief man! Where are you buying your ammo? 9mm target rounds are back down to $11 -$12 a box. Mil spec 5.56 can be had for $15 per 50 count ($6 per box of 20). I did see a $150 box (20 rounds) of .338 Lapua Magnum match grade under the glass at Academy Sports store last time I was there. Sheesh! The Internet is your friend. I can't remember the last time I bought ammo in an actual brick and mortar store. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I haven't mail ordered ammo yet, I reload most of it, so I just look at prices on the store shelves to feel better about how much primers are costing these days. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Personally, I have been metering my shooting, with a small stockpile, somewhat and hopefully waiting until we get a more conservative president and senate in D.C. that will let many companies off the hook for all the EPA restrictions that has temporarily put them out of business, such as all our lead producing plants, etc. Hopefully they have just mothballed the plants or at worst shut down and a new owner(s) will bring them back on line. And again hopefully the new regime will start to reduce its stockpile of all the ammo our current president has kept from the hands of "the people" and we will have more from the ammo manufacturers. And prices should get back to what once was normal. I.E., 525 count bricks of .22 LR @ $20-25 and 1000 rds. of .223/5.56 bulk for $2-300.00. etc. Wishful thinking, maybe but it could happen. As I have preached many times before; vote wisely in the upcoming elections my friend. Bob | ||
| Rick_a |
The president and government do not have the ammo. Your fellow consumer is purchasing it. 22lr is found around here on occasion. It's best to pick up a box or two when you can. Most of my loaded ammo is purchased local. The hazmat and shipping charges online are excessive. The only deals to be had are com bloc corrosive in 7.62x39 and 7.62x54r. Like others, what I shoot most is reloaded ammo with used brass and components found locally. Speaking of 7.62x39, CZ has a pretty nice option in a bolt gun: http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-527-carbine-7-62x39-5 -rd-mag/ | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Rick_a, "The president and government do not have the ammo." "Your fellow consumer is purchasing it" With due respect Rick but I recently saw an article put out by Remington and Federal as to their sales to the Feds and it revealed just how much .357, .40, .223 & .308 and other calibers and it was quite considerable. And if my fellow consumers are buying the ammo they must be spend thrifts, or just stupid to pay the prices I'm seeing, from locally here to Midway, Cheaper then Dirt, Natchez, Georgia Arms, etc. I believe I'll just wait it out at least for a little while longer and see what happens. And with that said if I was to go to my local Sportsmens Warehouse every day and see what comes in I just might catch their great prices; i.e. $24.95/brick of 525 Remington .22's. with a high limited supply but that is highly unlikely. They also DO have a lot of 7.62/39 Russian steel case that they cannot give away. Just what I'm seeing. | ||
| Reepicheep |
7.62x39 was the first one back in stock around here also. Which is nice if you have an AK varient, which as hard as I tried to not like (and I tried really hard), is actually a *great* little gun. | ||
| Blake |
Shipping, $10 - $20, is not bad if you buy in bulk, 500 to 1000 rounds. Sales tax at local store can be higher. Per UPS: (http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/prepare/packaging/guidelines/ammunition.html)
Sure is convenient. Just shows up at your door. (Message edited by blake on October 20, 2014) | ||
| Sifo |
Sure is convenient. Just shows up at your door. USPS wouldn't deliver my last shipment to my door. Apparently the postal worker couldn't lift the box. When I picked it up they quizzically asked what was in there. I just smiled and answered lead. | ||
| Court |
Hahaha . . .here in N<YC . . if I even browse on a website someone will show up at my door. Some old-timers recall the last time I had 3 nice young men in suits show up at the door. I'm reformed. In NYC we say NOTHING. I wouldn't even get a slingshot near the city . . . arms, in this area, are a privilege reserved for the wealthy. If you care to see the power that being rich carries . . scan the list of CCW permits in NYC. Interesting. | ||
| Aesquire |
I bent a light duty hand truck with 2 boxes smaller than a legal pad cubed. Customer also got a nice steel target set the same week. 3 trips to deliver up the driveway. I'm broken & was able to deliver. ..... but we have some smaller ladies and guys that wouldn't be able to lift one box. Good thing for the customer nothing about me fits the word small. The supervisor was annoyed I bent the hand truck. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Yeah, better think it through before jumping on that "bulk discount" for 3000 185 grain JHP 45 ACP lead. Turns out, 185 grains time 3000 is really freaking heavy. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Another: "Sure is convenient. Just shows up at your door." Remembering the good old days when I had many 1000 rd. wooden crates of .223, 7.62 shipped right to my door by UPS from "The Ammo Man" in New Jersey. Not that long ago. I still have one of the crates. He's still around here: "www.ammoman.com/". Pretty good prices also but not like 10 years ago either. Maybe never again, though I'm still hoping. Bob, in the great free state of Utah. | ||
| Rick_a |
Sure, and that happens year after year. It's commercial sales that've spiked in the past few years. Prices have gone up slightly around here, but nothing significant except for rimfire. Some retailers still have it priced reasonably, but it doesn't last long. | ||
| Blake |
Example: 1,000 rounds of .223 delivered for $299.50 http://www.slickguns.com/product/wolf-gold-223-rem ington-ammo-55-grain-full-metal-jacket-1000-rounds -29950-free-shipping | ||
| Gregtonn |
Just bought 550 rounds of Federal .22 LR high velocity hollow points for $50 at a local dealer. Walmart has had no stock for months and limits you to 2 boxes of 50 rounds if you happen to be there when something does come in. G | ||
| Rick_a |
You can get 500 rds of Federal XM855 or XM193 for $175-$180 around here. Wolf, even in the "Gold" line is very dirty and uses powder with a pressure curve that can be problematic in some AR's. I've got some TulAmmo .223 myself, but used it to test new builds only. Usually if a gun will run Wolf or TulAmmo it'll run anything. I mostly leave cheap com bloc ammo to the cheap com bloc gun. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thats one nice thing about an AK, it works pretty well with really cheap ammo. |
