| Author | Message | ||
     Swampy |
Seeing the distance down your driveway...Savage 308, or 22-250, or 243, or 223, just depends on what YOU want to do. 22 will do any job...but ammo is pretty much made from Unobtanium at this juncture in history. | ||
| Pwnzor |
The best rifle to have is the one nobody knows you have. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Above the garage is bare-stud pre-construction for 2 bedrooms/1 bath/kitchen/living room. Right now...that's the MC shop, with Handy lift, compressor, and workbenches. Eventually it will be mom's apartment, when the time comes and she can't stay on her own in FL any longer. Behind the garage - attached, it's kinda T-shaped if you look at the roof peak - is a 30x30 workshop. The 3 garage doors below are strictly parking, no tools, no mess. The 30x30 has stainless workbenches, beaucoup shop lighting, tools, lines from the compressor, 220v for a welder, and is where the pickup (2001 Ram 2500 longbed crew cab) and Satellite (72 Plymouth station wagon that'll carry a 4x8 sheet of plywood with the tailgate closed and back seat folded) live. And...I don't flaunt my arms. I learned as an 8 year old - "don't show your weapon until you have decided to use it; never use a weapon with the intent to wound". I have close-quarters covered, looking for something...outdoors-oriented. And yes, I have excellent sightlines all the way to the mailbox  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Dang. Mausers did get expensive. Add them to the list of "shoulda bought 5 when I had the chance" guns. The were literally selling for $79 each at a local sporting goods store in 1995. All matching numbers too. | ||
| Blake |
I'm often tempted by the K31 Suisse.. http://www.classicfirearms.com/k31-rifles Totally dig that straight pull bolt action. Oh heck. They're back in stock. | ||
| Blake |
http://www.classicfirearms.com/swiss-k-31-carbine-rifle Totally dig that straight pull bolt action, and the unusual 7.5x55 caliber.  | ||
| Blake |
That Swiss steel barrel is full floating inside the stock. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I always liked those also. Aim Surplus had that a month or two back (I think it was that one). I forget the price, but it was attractive (and I am a CHEAPSKATE). | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Now you can tell me where I'm going wrong with this but; most military rifles with very few exceptions are highly robust, some almost crude but usually lack in precision shooting. They have military style triggers, which means terrible compared to a nice 3# pull with no creep. They are meant, if I remember my basic training, "to lay down a field of fire" so your side can advance. That's fine if you do not want to fire very accurately. Just for me, and some others, I want a rifle to at least shoot into 2" at 100yds and that takes a good trigger and a good shooter to pull (squeeze) it properly. With some work almost any modern rifle can do that and some will do 1/2" to 1" regularly and even better occasionally. Many now have somewhat adjustable triggers, bedding systems and free floating barrels for fine accuracy right out of the box if you do your job and they are a pleasure to shoot accurately. There are many military rifles that are much fun and fine for plinking and for military type self defense and in the case of most AR's and a few match M1's, M1A's & '03 Springfields some can even shoot fairly accurately. But for high precision shooting we need something better. I choose to have both. Just my take on it. Bob | ||
| Blake |
Most any military rifle in decent condition will do 2" at 100 yards, aka 2 minutes of angle, or 2 MOA with the right ammunition and a good optic. No rifle shoots all available ammo with equal accuracy. For example, the Mosin Nagant much prefers heavier 170 or 180 gr rounds. The 147 gr milsurp ammo is not so wonderful. Barrel dynamics are interesting. That Swiss K31 is noted for its excellent accuracy. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I always treated trigger pull as one of many problems to be managed trying to get a good shot. For sure a light crisp pull is easier to do well with. But I also like the safety margin a long trigger pull adds. I had a chance to get a .44 magnum revolver with a super light, supper crisp trigger pull. I passed. It was the only gun the previous owner, an avid shooter and collector, had ever had an unintended discharge with (very near to a really bad one). The only really light trigger I ever really used was on a target pellet gun, which was a lot of fun to try and use to make one hole with 5 rounds at 15 feet. I had probably 3 negligent discharges with that gun in firing a few thousand rounds. Which is 3 too many. I'll never win a bullseye competition that way though, and I have peace with that. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
I have to agree on that Bill, but will add; it should never be a problem if one of the cardinal rules of gun handling and shooting is followed; i.e. keep your finger off the trigger until your ready to fire and the other rules are in line also, know your target & background. Even in the worst case of an inadvertent discharge if all those rules are followed there will be no bad outcome. I will also add when adjusting a trigger do the necessary drill afterward to insure the firearm will not fire when opening or closing the action. The new safe triggers many manufacturers have now pretty much prevent this. I had a Sharps Target rifle for a while with set triggers which were marvelous. Set the first trigger to stage the sear and the second trigger lights it off in ounces. I never once had a problem. Even My AR has a single stage 3# trigger pull with no creep and its a joy to shoot accurately and very easy to almost make it sound like a full auto when its time to rock & roll. | ||
| Rick_a |
I've managed to shoot military rifles with 7-9 lb trigger pulls quite well. It just takes less concentration and effort to use a better trigger is all. My Ruger 22/45 pistol has my best trigger. The AR triggers are almost as good. My brother almost shot himself in the foot with my 44 mag. It had a 2-1/4 lb single action pull. No amount of trigger pull or safety devices can compensate for poor gun handling practices. If you can swing the price tag Gibbs Rifle Co. Is building 1903-A4 sniper rifles with new barrels and replica optics. Pretty cool http://www.gibbsrifle.com/1903-a4_sniper_rifle_.ht ml  | ||
| Reepicheep |
I agree. All of my negligant discharges were with the pellet gun, and when the gun was pointed down range. I'd apparently gotten into the bad habit of putting my finger on the trigger while I am lining up the sights, and discovered with the pellet gun how sloppy I was getting. I don't need to be putting my finger on the trigger when I am still 30 degrees below the target, but apparently I did it more than I realized. That thing had some ridiculously light trigger break. A very cheap lesson that could have been very expensive. So I guess I advocate pellet guns with hair triggers, frequent practice, and frank self reflection. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Well said Bill and boy Rick, is that Gibbs nice. I wonder what it would do with a Timmney trigger? Makes me feel like I was in a small town in France in '41 up in a tower picking off Germans as they came into town although I'm way too young to have been there. Having had many military rifles I can appreciate them all for their purpose and history and '03's are especially great. Bob | ||
| Ceejay |
for a get off my lawn type I've always prefered a 12ga., and for a "you better bring her home by 2300," deterrent, a double bit axe that I just happen to be sharpening as they show up  I don't happen to have the space you have, but I have been shopping around for a nice 308, and from what I've noticed a remy 700 seems to be the best set-up. I've seen them go used for about 450 with a scope. Used long guns do make me a bit nervous though, as I wonder if they ended up on the used rack because folks just couldn't get them to be accurate - meaning poor QA/QC. I really liked the rugers bolt/reciever interface, and general look of the rifle, but the remy's just seemed better. I couldn't stand the way the Savages felt - though they did look nice. Please keep in mind that these were all used bolt actions, I only looked at the 300 series, and lefty. 22lr's are super accurate, will reach out and touch something beyond my capabilities, and with a well placed shot will drop just about anything other than good sized game from my experience - although most of the folks I grew up with used 30-06's for groundhogs to deer, because they got tired of tracking them down after the shot. Bear is a completely different animal(obviously) but I'd imagine that if your using a rifle for home defense, a well placed shot to the shoulder will get any would be intruders to turn around... | ||
| Ratbuell |
Eh, for "get off my lawn", a compound hunting bow can be incredibly effective. There may or may not be a Colt 4" OP .38 around here too, loaded with 125gr hollowpoints, for interior use. Rifle would be, honestly, for zen use (I miss the focus of shooting) and possibly some small hunting. I know 22lr very well from childhood, but may go a little bigger just for versatility. I'll have to balance the availability of ammo, too... | ||
| Ceejay |
I'm with ya there, there's something about "primitive" that I'm a big fan of. A few years ago we were having trouble with some kids setting fire to homeowners cars. What they'd do is break into a car, take what they wanted, spray the seats with lighter fluid, light a match, then walk away… Problem with that was usually the cars were parked right up to the garage, thus having the distinct possibility of setting the house on fire - I helped a guy keep his house wet until the FD could show up in one instance. Being that the MBR was right above the garage on my home and that my driveway was all of twenty feet long I had my old recurve with a field point ready to go through a leg if'n need be. I don't know if I could have done that, but I certainly didn't like the idea losing part of my home and possibly a family member because some kids were getting thier jollies off. versatility is what I'm looking for as well, but with 3 kids I'd like to teach I'm still leaning towards a 22…the oldest, a girl BTW, happens to like the 20 ga. but with 7/8 an ounce of pellet at 1200 ft/sec. there isn't a whole lot of zen with that. She's good with it, knocking down beer cans at 40yds a pop, but it still leaves a bit of bruise. I've never tried to take down a deer from over 50 yds. so I really haven't had a need for a large caliber. | ||
| 99savage |
Coming to this discussion late and might have missed a few things - BUT - Everybody needs a 22. Not a very sexy choice but the Ruger 10-22 is as reliable as a rock and plenty accurate out of the box. Don't overdo on the scope. Most high power scopes are parallax corrected for 100 yards but with a 22 you want 50 yards. If you want more accuracy heavy barrels are available for the 10-22 For the high power rifle Recently I have been shocked by some of the groups people are getting with their out of the box, Savage bolt action rifles rifles. Rifle/scope combinations are available from Dick's, Cabella's, etc., at very affordable prices. My choice for a first high power would be 308. Easy to find ammunition, enough power for anything save moose and brown bear (enough for them too but might not be humane) There is a nice Facebook users group dedicated to Savage rifles | ||
| Rick_a |
I plan on going a bit more traditional with a bow, myself. The plan is to get or make a hickory self bow in the near future. It's another skill set to develop but it certainly would not be considered as a defensive weapon. There's just much better tools for the job. That and a BP revolver. I'm liking the Starr double action and Remington New Model Army.   A black powder replica rifle could be fun...  ...and inexpensive. | ||
| Blake |
That New Army has the classic lines. | ||
| Reepicheep |
A 10/22 with a $50 red dot site is a solid "giggle" on the fun scale. Go to the grocery store, get a 24 pack of cheap warm diet soda (less sticky to clean up) and a box of saltines, and go find a safe hillside somewhere, and bring a brick of 500 rounds of .22 LR. When you get good, upgrade from the saltines to necco wafers. | ||
| Reepicheep |
(and if you bring a .357 or a .45, also get a 2 liter bottle of purple soda and some rope to hang from a tree branch. Shake vigorously. You can make a purple sphere about 3 feet in diameter. ) | ||
| Bob_thompson |
You got it exactly right again Bill; I shoot my 10-22 with AR type stock and a red dot sight and if you really want to have a "blast" try some Tannerite (see their website)or find it at Midway. But be advised its not perfectly legal in the Forest Service or BLM lands so watch where you shoot it. It also takes a H.P. rifle to set it off. WOW! factor is off the charts and a little expensive but a fine ending for some range time. | ||
| Reepicheep |
They stock that stuff at my local Rural King store, my neighbors keep buying it to play with. I'm the responsible one in an otherwise pretty fun cul-de-sac. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
I'll toss my suggestion into the ring. Remington 700 SPS Varmit. .223 Great platform, double studded for sling and bi-pod, good caliber for 200-300 yards, cheaper (.40-.50 cents a round) and available ammo. Best part...it comes in lefty.  I believe it was Blake above who stated a desire for a .204 Ruger. It's a great round, but can be on the tougher side to find in stock. I own a Ruger M77 Target in .204 Ruger and am lucky I work part-time for a firearms dealer where it's available. (Message edited by buellinachinashop on October 09, 2014) | ||
| Macbuell |
Don't know if this has been mentioned or not but I am looking at the Mossberg MVP. It will take standard AR Mags including the P-Mag, has a floating barrel and bolt action. Reviews have mostly been very good. Since I own an AR it seems to make sense. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
I have thought about that rifle also Mark (Macbuell) but declined. My idea is when you need firepower my RRA AR is fine with 30 rd. mags and fair accuracy to 100 yds. with a quick acquiring red dot sight, but when absolute precision accuracy is needed I usually would only need 4 or 5 rounds at most to hit my intended target and of course would have my second 5 rd. mag. loaded and ready to go if necessary. But always subscribing to "one shot, one kill". Just my take. Bob | ||
| Macbuell |
Bob, I have had the same thoughts. What are the thoughts around the .223 / 5.56 round for mid to long range distances. 100 Yard to 300 Yards. The reason I'm asking is that I have a lot of .223 / 5.56 stocked up and would prefer to get a rifle that shoots that round. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I am not an expert, but I'd say 300 yards is still "close range" in terms of caliber, and I doubt there is much contribution from ballistics. Not to say it's easy to be accurate at 300 yards, just saying it will be 99% about the gun and the shooter, and 1% about the caliber. Now take that out to 500 yards and you have a different story... |
