| Author | Message | ||
     Crusty |
In 1998 I bought an S3 T. It appeared to be exactly the bike I was looking for. It handled really well, had great brakes and it had hard saddlebags. Of course, it had its flaws, too. The seat caused severe butt pain after 700 miles, and there were numerous other issues. Front Isolators broke (the aluminum piece), rear rubber isolators tore, the front brake rotor would loosen on its pins and made a rattling racket, and so on. However, every time the factory addressed a problem, it was cured and never recurred. The seat was replaced with a much more comfortable version, the front Isolators were redesigned and so was the brake rotor. My S3-T was extremely problematic, but I knew, from the people on Badweb and the American Thunderbike Club forum, that there were solutions either available; or at least possible. When the problems surrounding my Thunderbolt became insurmountable, I didn’t look at a different brand. Instead, I got another Buell. When people came to the forum and tried to badmouth the bikes, there was a host of people who would jump to point out the positives, and even try to solve the problems that the complainers were having. We pretty much all believed in what Erik and the Elves were doing. Lately, it seems like the opposite is true. If anyone says anything positive about a new EBR, there is a host of people ready to jump on them. If you express any sign of support, you’re immediately branded as a Kool-Aid drinker. If somebody says something positive about handling, there’s someone ready to point out that Benzini Gasolini of WSBK fame said that the chassis is wrong and can’t possibly work. If you defend the ZTL front brake, somebody will be happy to point out that Barful Pharttewater rode the bike on the Pasta Al Dente circuit in Bologna and said the brakes are not up to snuff. It seems that no matter what positive thing anyone says, there’s an Army ready to pounce. Remember when an American magazine (I won’t mention Motorcyclist by name) was screaming that the steering geometry was too steep and people believed it? Then the reports from the European press came in, and they were reporting that some riders were not only touching their knees down in turns, but in some cases, elbows. Didn’t Bike magazine from Great Britain declare the XB12R the best handling bike of all time? Remember when the mainstream was laughing at the muffler location, saying that under the engine was wrong and should be up under the seat? How many bikes today have underslung mufflers? It seems that the negativity disease from the detractors has taken hold here. I don’t see the support I used to. The enthusiasm for a really great bike that was commonplace is now limited to just a few, and when they try to show it, there’s a whole fire department ready to douse them with cold water. Next Monday (9/22), I’m going to ride out to Westfield, MA and do a couple of Demo Rides. I want to see for myself what the RX and SX are like to ride. I ‘m hoping that I get the same kick I got the first time I rode an S1 Lightning, and I’m hoping that I’ll be looking at the RX thinking, “Hmmm, with taller bars and a set of Hepco&Beckers, I could do an 800 mile day”. I’ve seen what Erik and the people around him can do, and I’ve ridden nearly 200,000 miles on their products. I want to judge for myself. I’m not ready to give up hope yet. | ||
| Malott442 |
I wish I had 17k to spend right about now. I would buy the 1190RX sight unseen because I have faith in the product. I have faith in an American company that started in a barn, and is now a force for any manufacturer to reckon on or off the track. My X1 lightning is raw. It vibrates like crazy. It's slow by naked bike standards. But every one of my friends wants to ride it during our outings. Because of the "x" factor (cue drum roll cymbal snap). I floated back and forth with quite a few bikes over the years, and will admit every manufacturer has some great models. But Erik's horses are the only ones bred domestically. Call me a patriot. Call me an idiot. I'm still happy with my choices. | ||
| Thumper74 |
It's not lack of enthusiasm... For me it's lack of funds. Since 2009, I sold my XB12 to buy a house. I've 'replaced' it with my Suzuki and after dad passed, his Sportster. I loved the XBs the first time I saw one. I don't love the new bikes. Yet. I haven't seen one in person. I'd like to add another XB to the stable in the near future but may be an apartment dweller soon. | ||
| Aesquire |
Still enthusiastic about my Cyclone. Still occasionally pass a UJM in a corner, only to have him pass me back with gusto in the straights and then make him wonder WTF? when I'm right behind him again... You know, the usual Buell factoid. I'm waiting for the EBR that fits my needs. My knees are shot so the crotch rocket jockey position bikes are not getting my money... but I'm sure the "EBR sport tour" model that everyone will say won't sell, since "sport tour" don't sell, will be just fine... | ||
| Thumper74 |
I'd like to see the 'sport tour' be more XT than anything else. | ||
| Damnut |
Well I still drink the kool-aid, in heavy doses. There's no more Sunday Buell rides anymore where we would have 10 or more Buells but hey, I still have mine. Even added a second Buell to my collection. I will always be a Buell enthusiast and collector. Crusty, what time you planning in going to the demo event in Westfield? Maybe I can join you? I am planning on going to all three demo events next week. | ||
| 86129squids |
The new EBR models are dripping with coolness- everywhere your eyes fall on the machine, there's something that jumps out at you and reaffirms it. I along with several others at the Little Switzerland shindig were scared to ride them, due to the extreme hazard to our wallets. I used to call Buells "the American Bimota"- I should've reserved that statement for the EBR's of the present. When Erik gets to co-design and import some of the new Hero models, with utilitarian/supercool/funky design features we've seen already, I'll be completely unable to curb my enthusiasm. Yeah, wish I had more moolah to throw at them too... | ||
| Court |
I continue to watch, monitor and study this . . . . Currently the market is on fire for $20K and up sport bikes.
The EBR offerings are among the least expensive in the range. I keep asking . . ."where are the sales?" | ||
| Damnut |
Don't ask "where are the sales?" Ask "where is the love?" | ||
| Strokizator |
My enthusiasm hasn't waned but I am getting old(er). My impression is that Erik is a racer at heart and, if given free rein, will produce bikes along those lines. I look at the new bikes and to me they're the same as a 25 year old sexy girl - I admire them but know full well that if I got one it'd probably kill me. I'm still anxiously waiting for the AX, hoping it will be the bike for me. I need more upright ergonomics to keep too much weight off my wrists; lower pegs so my knee/hip angle is more relaxed. Don't really care about 150hp anymore. I hope for light weight (as compared to comparable models), good mileage/range, all-day comfort (cruise control?) and versatility. I'm also a fan of ABS and traction control. Electronic suspension, not so much. | ||
| Crusty |
Crusty, what time you planning in going to the demo event in Westfield? Maybe I can join you? I am planning on going to all three demo events next week. Jim; I have a job interview tomorrow. Depending on what happens then, and what the weather forecast is for Monday I'll have a better idea. Ideally, I'd like to arrive at the dealership around Noon or so. I'll send you a PM tomorrow evening. | ||
| Jaimec |
In my case, it's a "Murtaugh Thing." I'm getting too old for this ****.  I'm looking at small, light, nimble bikes than powerful fast bikes that I'll NEVER be able to fully exploit anyway. That KTM 390 sport bike looks pretty cool to me, but even more interesting is that Royal Enfield GT500... | ||
| Al_lighton |
When I first discovered Buells in 1999, I'd had enough of pure sport bikes. They had about as much practicality as a Ferrari in rush hour traffic. But I didn't want a sportster or a big twin cruiser, I wanted a sit up bike that handled well and didn't require a bunch of routine maintenance. The closest thing out of Japan that almost filled the bill was a Honda Nighthawk, but it was just too plain vanilla, with as much character as my refrigerator. Ducati Monsters seemed like a good choice in many ways, but then there's those damned desmo valve trains and Italian logistical support. MotoGuzzi's needed a big diet (and then there's that damned Italian logistics thing again), BMW was getting close with the R1100S. Then I discovered Buells. Great handling, decent performance, VW Bug simple maintenance, no chain, single carb/throttle body, decent styling, rational seating position. They really resonated with me. Within 6 months, I owned a 99S3 and a 98 S1W. Motorcycle life was good. The XB series bikes weren't an instant hit with me, but the XB Lightnings were the heir apparent to the S1W and grew on me. And then I got a Uly, which is just about the perfect bike for me (especially with my 1125 front fairing mod). It's really all the bike I ever need. But nothing lasts forever. I needed an 1125R for the business so that I could be knowledgeable on them and so that I could develop parts for it. But the fact is, between late 2007 and February of this year, I put only about 4000 miles on that 1125R. It was a cool bike. But much of it was what I was railing against when I discovered Buells in 1999. The things that brought me to Buells in 1999 have not changed. My track bike is still an 1125R, it does that job really well for me, and the air cooled Buells are out of their element on the track. But on the street, well, it's that Ferrari in rush hour traffic thing all over again. Now I see the new EBRs. They're like 1125Rs and 1125CRs on steroids. Lighter, faster, more committed. 6500 mile valve adjust intervals...are you freakin kidding? It's not a Ferrari, it's a Lamborghini in rush hour traffic. I don't want or need it, for all the same reasons I realized I didn't want or need my street 1125R. I'm reserving judgement until the AX comes out. There are several of the street-focused adventure bikes out now that I'm be interested in, but they all have higher maintenance requirements than my Uly and in more cases than not, higher performance than what I need or want. I would just LOVE to see an EBR modern take on the air cooled Uly. But I have a feeling what we're going to see is more like an 1195 KTM Adventure. I think an 1195 KTM adventure would rock, at least until I had to adjust the valves or chain. Then I'd be wishing for my Uly again. Simplicity with enough performance and character to entertain is what I want. Bottom line, all the things that brought me to Buell to begin with still exist. I guess I'm a just a luddite/dinosaur. I'm a fan of Erik Buell and his creations, I'll root for them on the track. But I really hope that he sees the need for the market that has been left behind. I'd prefer air cooling, but if it needs liquid cooling to meet emissions, so be it. But give me self adjusting valves, belt drive, easy access to things that need attention, single throttle body. If that means I can't have 150HP, I'm really OK with that. Really. There might be a few more folks just like me out there. Enough for a market? Hard to say, but no one else has that corner. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Al, you just described my own feelings to a tee. I couldn't put it better. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I suspect the perceived lack of sales (actual? I don't have enough information to pick...) may be due to the change in target market. "Old" Buell owners are not necessarily the target. "New" EBR blood is. Completely understandable, but with one hurdle - resonating (and sometimes deserved) poor press from the HD days. Not always product related...but definitely not the ownership experience that buyers are looking for. EBR is brand NEW. No track record of their own...yet. And, much as it pains me to say it (yeah...I'm a koolaid drinker...), they don't have much of a coherent identity just yet either. I think (nah...I KNOW) Erik has found his way as far as motorcycles go, and company destiny. He, and the rest of the Elves, just need to build that persona, that image, that...je ne se quois that will attract buyers, and pull them from other, established, easily-identified brands. Hell...you see neon green, what brand do you think of? Blue and white? There are brands that folks recognize just from their race liveries...EBR needs that sort of instant recognition, that sort of identity. I think THAT will drive the sales. They've got the hardware; they just need the image, and the street cred. And...that takes time. Time...and very CAREFUL choices. | ||
| Ourdee |
Funds are tight here. | ||
| Sifo |
I started a reply to this thread twice, but it just didn't seem to come out right. Al pretty much nailed it for me too. The things that made me fall for my XB12Ss have simply changed for the new bikes. With close to 60K on the clock of the XB, I'm starting to wonder what to replace it with. Nothing really check all the boxes for me. The Yammie FZ-09 comes pretty close, but I really hate the idea of a Japanese bike. That and the valve adjustments. Is it really that hard to build an overhead cam engine with hydraulic cam followers of some sort? I know that will limit the red line somewhat, but I don't want a damn F1 race engine anyway. | ||
| Ljm |
I have debated responding too. I like the new bikes. I liked the old ones too. I had tubers and XB's as well. I like the idea of having an American bike and one that is comparable to the rest of the superbikes. That being said, I think that this bike is not going to immediately appeal to some of the folks who have ridden particularly Ulys. I am enthused about these and I think that most people would be if they rode one. But it is not the same bike and there are tradeoffs: you get more power, you do more maintenance for instance. I for one, however, get g.d. tired of every comment being met with a disparaging remark. When I bought buells first I was amazed about the sense of community and helpfulness. That is still true with everyone I meet in person. Less so on the internet. My mom tried to teach me that if I didn't have anything nice to say, not to say anything. My dad proved that if I did anyway, I was likely to get punched in the head. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Beyond my philosophical post above...I love the new bikes. I have yet to allow myself to ride an 1190, although I did sit on one. Compared to my 1125CR? WOW. Flyweight. I run the gamut - 95 S2. 98 S1W. 98 S3 Defender. 01 M2L. 06 Uly. 09 CR. Handbuilt tuber; "HD-era" tubers; XB; 1125. Love 'em all. Ride 'em all. I'm old....even if I refuse to admit it most days. I've been rebuilt from the waist down, cannot run more than a couple feet at a time, sore every day, clank when I walk...but I still ride, and I still love it. I've always loved V-twin torque. Loved (and owned) tubers since '99. Rode the XB's when they debuted in Daytona in '02 - loved them. Loved the 12 even more. Head over heels for the Ulysses when it came out. 1125R...is a great bike, but for me, it's track-bred and track-geared. CR came out...I knew I could be in trouble, but didn't need another bike. Until the clearance sale, then I couldn't say no. Turns out...mechanically? That's my favorite. Smooth as silk, power and torque that can alter the rotation of the earth, character that makes it the "new S1W" in my mind...and it's American. Do I need that much power? Eh...probably not. Can I ride the bike to its limits? Not on the street, no. Am I keeping it? HELL YEAH. The CR and the Ulysses are my 2 most common rides, and the thought always crosses my mind as I ride - "if only I could melt the two together"...and I am very anxious to see what the AX has to offer. Mechanically, philosophically, and for the corporate image of EBR - a promising, yet admittedly fledgling, corporation in a truly cutthroat industry and marketplace. Given history...I have no doubt they have the plan - and the ABILITY - to rewrite the book. It'll just take...time. I think the perceived lack of enthusiasm here (and elsewhere) comes from folks who are...impatient. Tired of waiting. Looking for instant gratification. The press is beginning to open up to the ideas, and admitting "hey, this shit works!". Once the press gains consistency..."hardcore riders" will follow suit - if the press says it, it must be true, so they'll jump on board. But admittedly...'09 was eons ago from a product standpoint. Folks ARE getting tired; getting bored; looking and going elsewhere. But...it takes time to do it right. I am fortunate to have a number of very excellent motorcycles to keep me occupied in the meantime. I've met the man, I've worked for the company (via a HD/Buell dealership), I've wrenched on a LOT of the bikes and worked with a LOT of the owners. I've seen the pattern of innovation, and I have no doubt...we're gonna be blown away. It just takes time. | ||
| Josequinones |
Ditto what AL and Joe said. I have 3 bikes. I want to get down to 2. So I'm getting rid of my Vrod. That would leave me with the 1125CR and the Ulysses. Ideally I would have a city/commuter and a touring bike. So I have demoed various bikes recently. Two really connected with me, the RX and the Zero. I rode them back to back on the same day. The RX is the Best bike Erik & the Elves have ever made. It does everything better than my CR which I rode to the dealer. But a city bike it is not. The SX is surely better, I have sat on one, but my CR is probably still a better city bike than either. Later I checked into insuring an RX/SX. Ouch, no thanks. Plus I hate chains. The Zero was.... Different in every sense! No noise, heat, vibration, shifting, gasoline, oil changes, valve checks! Plus it's belt driven and made in the US. Insurance is reasonable. 106 Ft-lbs of instant torque at any speed is addictive. And there's an App for it! So I have my city bike, a Zero SR. The AX will replace my Buells when it arrives. I still support EBR at the races like this past weekend at New Jersey, but their current lineup is not for me. (Message edited by josequinones on September 18, 2014) (Message edited by josequinones on September 18, 2014) | ||
| Doz |
I miss it too Crusty. Seems there was always someone posting in storm fronts about rides in my area, now it's a dead zone. The upside is that I can buy xb's fairly cheap (the down side is that I now own 4...running out of room). In fact I took one on a track day, a bone stock bike. Another rider commented "hey your pretty fast on that thing". At 53 years of age, passing guys half my age on an 11 year old bike, I can say that my enthusiasm has never been stronger. I can't figure out why so many bailed. | ||
| Josequinones |
To all of you do yourself a favor and demo a Zero, it will blow your mind. Keep in mind it's a $5000 dollar chassis wrapped around a $12000 battery pack and controller, but man is it fun to ride! (Message edited by josequinones on September 18, 2014) | ||
| 46champ |
I have not bought yet and I find it kind of embarrassing that cost is one of the stumbling blocks. A SX is what 16,995 I remember a RR1200 going for over 10 in 1988. The SX is counting for inflation half the cost of a RR1200. I do need a dealer a little closer than Bellevue although they may be a fine bike shop just too far away | ||
| Bigblock |
Well frankly, I'd have to say I'm getting real tired of buying gas and oil and doing oil changes and engine repairs and maintenance. I do think that electric may well be the next thing I spend money on. Plus I have a few used solar panels lying around collecting dust... So, I'd have to say a zero is starting to look pretty enticing, seeing as I can't spend the money at this moment, I dare not test ride one just yet, just in case they really are that good... | ||
| Torquehd |
bigblock, have you compared brammo to zero? From what I've seen online, the zero is more of a beginner's electric bike, whereas the brammo is more of a performer. | ||
| 86129squids |
We Buell aficionados are living in interesting times. Tom- I remember when you, me and your better half were taking a break in NC, next to another few riders, one on the new Yammie triple FZ09- I spent a few moments appreciating that machine, and then my attention was drawn back to my new green Triumph love, and its need (!!!) to chase down Charlie, Tim, Glitch and the other peeps- glad to have survived to write this... Enthusiasm. "Je ne sais quois". My new to me '02 Sprint, with a new paint job administered by good buddy Vern, has given me a fresh dose of funnin. I appreciate the 3 cylinder motor immensely- somehow it allows the power/torque range of the 1125CR, but with a very different personality. Although they were never competitive in power or stats, or in the moto-press, the air-cooled Buells had SO much to love- the unlikely marriage of Erik's engineering to the classic Evo based lump, massaged into something we knew as Lightning, et al... Gotta say this is one of the more significant threads in a while. "WE CARE A LOT!" | ||
| Gregtonn |
Wow! So well said it such a short time by so many! G | ||
| Reepicheep |
I want Al to be the person who defines the platform objectives for my next motorcycle. I wouldn't mind buying it from him either. | ||
| Panhead_dan |
I'm in agreement with Al or very close to it. My mind has not changed since 2010 when I was ready to trade the Uly in on a new one. I would trade the '06 Uly for a new 2010 model today if that were possible and never look back. I have no need or desire for abs, tc, or vhs. In fact, I've been collecting parts to convert my Uly to a carburetor but it may only happen if the FI just totally shits the bed.... | ||
| Rick_a |
I'm enjoying my 96 S1 the same as when I purchased it 13 years ago, in some respects more. Most parts with weaknesses have been replaced. I still ride it daily. With some minor chassis and engine mods it's the bike I've always wanted. While it's the only bike I've owned I've been able to ride most anything that has had my fancy. The S1 still does it for me. I'd like to add a KTM Supermoto to the stable while the wife is leaning towards an early BMW "flying brick." One of these years we'll get it together. |
