| Author | Message | ||
     Reepicheep |
I debated about watching (much less posting) this, but decided I would (both). http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2746026/Pl ease-don-t-die-like-boy-Mother-releases-harrowing- footage-son-s-death-97mph-horror-motorbike-crash-t ry-stop-families-going-agony.html?ito=video_player _click This is a helmet cam video from a motorcycle fatality accident. This is a tragedy, and I'm with his Mom. Everyone should be more careful. He should have been riding with more margin. The car that killed him should have been watching more carefully and should not have violated his right of way. No answer will bring this wonderful person back to life. We should all do better. This felt very much like (and brought back some uncomfortable memories of) my own accident (car fails to yield when turning left at an intersection). The difference was that I was riding at just a little faster than my sightline allowed. He was probably riding at 4x what his sightline allowed. Speed kills. Riding so fast that you can't see a hazard in time to stop and avoid it is just playing russian roulette. Don't do it. Don't out-ride your sight lines. Take it to a track with corner workers stationed with yellow flags. (Message edited by reepicheep on September 08, 2014) | ||
| Pwnzor |
Yep. Sad story. | ||
| Court |
>>>>Riding so fast that you can't see a hazard in time to stop and avoid it is just playing russian roulette. I. . . . with my lost friends now numbering well past 100 . . and electing not to watch. But your words summarize what I've had on my mind lately. I haven't ridden in 3 years and, just lately, have started to again. All my hobbies, motorcycles, handguns and airplanes are so much fun and, simultaneously, so terribly unforgiving of any lack of competency. Motorcycling is unique among them in that the outside forces, beyond rider skill and the machine, have such influence and can sent in motion, tragic consequences, nearly instantly with no advance notice. I confess . . . I've been on the verge of selling all the bikes lately. Riding, at least on the street, demands a requisite level of skill and keeping those skills honed. For now . . . I'm elevating in the wee hours to avoid traffic . . . taking back roads (mucho happy) and riding about 5 to 10mph under the speed limit. It really is a sad story and my heart goes out to the victim's family. We, as a group, hate to admit it but in many of these cases it was poor judgement by the rider that caused the fatality . . even if the car was at fault in the accident. | ||
| Chauly |
Life at 142 feet per second passes VERY quickly. Be careful out there. (Three years? Really?  ) | ||
| Madduck |
On August 2nd I had my first motorcycle accident ever. Over 40 years and several hundred thousand miles of travel all over North America. Hit a deer and broke wrist, so pretty well served by protective gear. Yesterday I hit another deer with my car. Deer was behind vehicle, ran to catch up and turned right in front of car. With my full coverage helmet on, loss of peripheral vision, I would not have slowed enough to eliminate damage to car or deer. Pretty sure that is what happened on bike. I will no longer ride because I will never feel safe on a motorcycle. All the protective gear can never equal 4500 pounds of steel and good seat belt. | ||
| Aesquire |
...... are so much fun and, simultaneously, so terribly unforgiving of any lack of competency. My list is somewhat different... but years ago my Mother complained I did "entirely too many things that required a helmet". Looks like the classic car bike accident... which raises my stress level in traffic... | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
I find it hard to believe the driver of the car was found at fault when the motorcyclist was doing 100 mph. Seems to me the deceased was culpable. | ||
| Aesquire |
This has been said many times... but it bears repeating. The "car turn in front of bike" accident is the #1 car/bike killer. The car driver "never saw" the bike a huge percentage of the time. Follow up studies show the car driver did not ride and had no close friends or relatives that ride, so while the image of the bike ( speeding or not ) may form on the retina, the BRAIN never processes it as on object in their universe. I can illustrate the reverse on that "condition". Have you ever bought a new to you brand of car? Then suddenly noticed the road was full of them? Sure you "saw" the cars before, and they registered as "car, one of". You deal with cars every day. The people that may kill you do not deal with bikes every day, and can look you right in the eye, and then kill you, and will still tell the police and the ME that "I never saw him". Happens every week. Of course speeding reduces everyone's reaction time available, so that is a small mitigating factor for the car driver, but he could have been doing the speed limit and still had that accident. | ||
| Poppinsexz |
Yea I'm sorry but at nearly double the legal speed I find it hard to lay any blame on the car. Judgments are made based on known speeds and distances. Once the turn started it was probably to late to correct once the excessive speed was realized | ||
| Strokizator |
Even if the motorcyclist was doing 60, he would have had to brake/swerve to avoid the car. Driver is at fault for causing the accident. The rider just made sure that any accident would likely be fatal. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I think that both the rider and the driver could have prevented the accident, but didn't. Hopefully in the future in similar situations, both do, and it is an uneventful day. Awareness and attentiveness by car drivers is huge. As is safe speed selection by motorcyclists. Ride slow, ride safe, and enjoy arriving home, alive, and refreshed. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I suspect David was not traveling at 97mph on that road for a sustained amount of time. Tragically what appeared to be a good spot to sustain that kind of speed for what was likely only brief moments in time, turned out to be fatal on this occasion. I suspect the driver was blamed because they had a clear view along that road and could have seen the bike no matter what speed its approach. It's so easy to choose a spot of road where opening the taps for a brief moment satisfies the need to hit the really high speeds. Sometimes the decision to do so was wrong. Nearly all of the time most live to tell the tale. It's all a matter of choice. Slow down is one choice. Don't ride at all is another. Or choose wisely, which won't necessarily always be the case, when opening the taps. I didn't watch the video. The pics told me enough. Rocket in England | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Good post reepi. I did not have the capacity to watch it either but have known enough people who have crashed and have studied the stats well enough to know it is never just one factor. As the saying goes it takes two to tango and there were most likely improvements needed by both parties. I believe further education is needed by cagers and we as motorcyclists need to be accountable for our actions. I recently had a conversation with a college friend over the topic of her frustration with jackwagon behavior by motorcyclists in traffic in her town. I told her I see it too and it frustrates me but as instructors we can only present the info and encourage good behaviors and hopefully good judgment but when they have passed the tests and paid the state it is all up to them. I feel bad for the family and especially for the mom. Rip. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Of course driving at that speed in traffic is a sure fire recipe for disaster. I decided to look at the tape, to see what could be learned from this tragedy. As I suspected, we see here a text book example of target acquisition, and of what NOT to do: the bike goes where the rider is looking. Note that the footage starts with the bike in the center of his lane. It ends with the bike swerving to the left RIGHT INTO THE CAR. If he had be going a little slower, and had started to swerve the right when he saw the car going to the left, he very well might have survived. Couple of obvious lessons here. 1. Don't drive 97 mph in traffic. 2. Learn how to look away from an obstacle and toward an escape route, instead of looking at the obstacle. This technique must be learned and practiced: the normal reaction is to look at the danger instead of away from it. A good way to practice is to start a slow turn to the right every time you see danger to the left: That will force you to look away from the danger and plan an escape route. ( I really feel sorry for the driver who felt so guilty at being involved in a fatal accident that he pleaded guilty to a crime he did not commit. I am sure he will have nightmares over this incident for years.) | ||
| Poppinsexz |
I watched the video, while at speed he passes a silver car, without even leaving the lane(both car and bike in same lane), then in just over 4 seconds it's over. I'd bet the car driver saw the silver car then looked where he was going to turn into and never saw the bike. | ||
| Ourdee |
I watched it. I have a rule that helps me. Would have helped him. When I see cars ahead, I make sure I'm not going more than 10 mph over the limit. Sad circumstances that. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Good rule Ourdee. I don't think he had a chance once the car started pulling into his lane. It took him over half the distance just to let off the throttle and get to the brake. If the car saw him and stopped (a very reasonable possibility) he would have cleared the front of it with the path he took (that also wasn't the path into oncoming traffic). And this was probably a GoPro, which has a stupid wide angle lens. So if we, watching a GoPro video, can clearly see the car that is pulling out in front of him (as we can), the car had to have a very good view of him on the bike. So it was also a case of a grossly inattentive driver. Stupid high speed on the bike, stupid inattentiveness by the driver, and we have one life over and several lives full of tragedy. The passes were also stupid, but if you have driven in the UK, they weren't actually that unusual (besides the speed). Car drivers around London and in the UK are far more attentive and accommodating of riders than you would ever see in the US. So what he was doing wasn't that bad, it was just the speed he was doing it. | ||
| Ratbuell |
( I really feel sorry for the driver who felt so guilty at being involved in a fatal accident that he pleaded guilty to a crime he did not commit. I am sure he will have nightmares over this incident for years.) Very true. I don't want to be seen as a "sympathizer" for the other side, but the fact remains this driver is being told he has taken away the life of another human being. Not a fate I would wish on even my ex-wife. I did not watch the video. I have been scooped out of a ditch, and airlifted to shock-trauma. I don't need the reminders. However, I agree with many of the comments above - and for perspective, think about riding at night. How quickly do you outrun your headlight? Ride like that during daylight hours, too. I will no longer ride because I will never feel safe on a motorcycle. And that is a choice we all must make at some point. I died in a ditch. And on a helicopter. And on an operating table. My choice (thus far)? If I'm going to be alive...I'm going to LIVE. I still ride regularly, and I love every mile. I also pay enough attention for me, and the guy in front of me, and the guy in front of them. It's very tiring...but not nearly as tiring as death. And...I still enjoy every ride. I take precautions - new LED lighting because I live in deer country, adjusted riding style for traffic conditions, weather conditions, and sun position, that sort of thing. Tragedy? Absolutely. Avoidable? Most likely...from BOTH sides of the impact. Can we learn from it? Definitely. Practice, practice, practice. Not going 97...but practice your reactions. Your scans. Your panic maneuvers (when's the last time you did a threshold brake maneuver in a parking lot, just because you hadn't done one in a while?). Court - drag your ass, and your bike, down here one weekend. We'll hit relatively traffic-light mountain roads, get you some practice, and at the end of the day fire up the grill and down some nice, old singlemalt. Everyone - be safe. THINK. And realize - if you pay attention...you can "predict" quite accurately. | ||
| Pwnzor |
I watched the video over and over again. Showed my wife, kids, people at work. In my mind, the guy in the car is 100% at fault. I don't care how fast the motorcycle is going, he crossed a lane of traffic without looking up. Do I think he should be prosecuted? Yes, and I think the level of punishment he received is appropriate, although I think his driving privilege should be taken away for several years. Bottom line, he has to live every day knowing that he ended somebody else's life. I'll never stop riding, and I accept the fact that my life may end on a motorcycle... or anywhere else when God wills it. That's the key. My faith keeps me safe in all things, and when I die, it is for a reason. I don't need to know the reason right now. I don't begrudge anybody elses' choice to ride or not ride. We all have our reasons. | ||
| Etennuly |
Court I have been 100% where you have been the past three years. Concerns feelings and thoughts of the risks and of selling the bikes. The passion is waining a bit. But then I think we got it all backwards. Now that we are of this age, our children are grown, grand children started, what the hell difference would it make if we died doing what we love? It probably be better than going out as a fizzlling slow dimming light bulb. And then I think of how long it takes to heal, if I survive, and how much work it could be for family members to take care of a busted ass old carcass. Passion, fire, focus, desire, need even, is where a riders mentality needs to be. Where my riding was for years. Now it is like that once in a while. I have become more interested and feel more confident on a track behind the wheel of my Corvette. | ||
| Rick_a |
I still ride because I hate driving. I'm always a bit on edge on unfamiliar, heavily trafficked roads. On roads I know, the traffic patterns are familiar, and the places where cars like to pop out unannounced become evident. But yeah, speeding to that extent on public roads, especially with side traffic, is a gamble. | ||
| Sifo |
I saw this a couple of days before it was posted here. Couldn't bring myself to post it. Not completely comfortable even commenting. I hate blaming the victim, but in this case speed was a factor. I tend to pretty much go with what Ourdee said about keeping under 10 over the limit around traffic. Other traffic just isn't going to anticipate someone traveling at that speed in that kind of area. To make matters worse, many people when surprised by something like that will do the worst possible thing for the situation. Know that and ride accordingly. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Yes, the rider was taking stupid risks. But the car driver crossed a lane of traffic when he was not clear to do so. Open and shut, in my opinion. | ||
| Sifo |
Pwnzor, I'm just curious... If it had been a biker making a left turn who was hit by a car going about 100 mph in traffic, would you then see it as an open and shut case against the biker? | ||
| Pwnzor |
Absolutely, yes. | ||
| Sifo |
Good to see consistency. Thanks for that much. I'll agree to disagree. | ||
| Pwnzor |
There's a big difference in the two scenarios... Both violating the same rule, yet with identical outcome. The biker dies. Scenario #1, car is at fault, biker dies. Scenario #2, biker is at fault, biker dies. Neither of these scenarios has the car driver feeling very good about it. | ||
| Biffdotorg |
Take a moment to think about how may things in normal traffic will force you to slow down out of sheer knee-jerk reactions. Call me paranoid, but what I mean is, when I see someone ahead of me merge into a lane next to me, I may slow, or at least move to the opposite side of the lane, just in case they come over two lanes in to my lane. When I see someone coming up to an intersection with the potential of pulling out in front of me, I may slow down and move to the opposite side of my lane. These are just reactions to the situation. Of course, these are all reactions when there is time to react. But the common one, is letting off the gas even if so slightly. At the speed he was moving, it was very obvious, that he could not even drive defensively when it was needed. All motorcyclists need to do that at all times. Always watch for the "out" if that car does decide to do something stupid. etc. For those that cannot watch the video, go to the link and look at the still shots. From the first photo, look at his two needle positions for speed and tach. Compare them to the next few photos all the way up until impact. At no point do they even begin to drop. He never came off the gas in the least, let alone grab the clutch or brake. He gave himself no time whatsoever to even have that instinctive knee-jerk reaction to "what's that dude doing in the oncoming intersection" Yes, the car jumped out at the last moment, but the bike driver never even let off like the potential for a problem was even there. Both are at fault for sure. It's a sad situation, but should be shared with anyone taking a motorcycle safety course. | ||
| Sl33py |
Rough video to watch, but a good reminder. I know I go too fast sometimes, but try to do so minimizing risk. Stress at work usually equals some extra speed here and there, but I really don't want to impact someone else's life like this (bad pun - intended). The car was obviously not paying attention, but the bike was going way too fast as well. Both part of the resulting fatality. Sad and I'm going to take it to heart and try to manage stress better w/o speeding.
Court - add paragliding, skydiving, scuba... then we are talking. Minimizing risk with practice and skill improvement. Thank you for pointing this out. It really resonates w/ me. I need to get some track time... stay safe my brothers on 2 wheels. rob | ||
| Patches |
This happened yesterday, I Pray for his Family.  LEXINGTON, Ky. (WKYT) - One man has died following an accident involving a motorcycle Tuesday afternoon. The Fayette County coroner says Mark C. Ramey, 26, of Lexington was riding the motorcycle when it crashed into a truck on Tates Creek Road at Duval Street in south Lexington. We're told the truck then caught fire. Ramey was rushed to the hospital with critical injuries, where he later died. An off-duty officer was one of the first people on the scene and was able to give CPR to Ramey until EMS arrived. Outbound Tates Creek Road was shut down at the intersection of Man O' War due to the accident and caused very heavy traffic backups, especially near Tates Creek Centre. Officials still have many factors to consider before determining if one of the drivers were at fault or if the wreck was accidental. "The reconstruction unit will look at that, they're looking at the sight lines, the speed of the motorcycle, how much time did the pickup truck driver have to see the motorcycle and know that it was coming before making that turn," Lt. Chris Van Brackel, with the Lexington Police Department, says. The driver of the pickup was also taken to the hospital, but he did not suffer serious injuries. | ||
| K12pilot |
I couldn't watch it and tried to close the tab but it was so fast that I did see it, I don't know what to say.. Other than... Ride Safe Chris |
