| Author | Message | ||
     Xdigitalx |
Nato is not lying about troops or sneaking around, Nato is responding to Russia's actions in East Ukraine. Definitely not unexpected or unsurprising. Russia is playing a game it will eventually loose. | ||
| Reindog |
C'mon, wake up. Putin will invade and annex more of Ukraine no matter what unless the West stops him. The tactic of a ceasefire is pure unadulterated BS and everyone, including Rocket, knows this. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Nice crystal ball you got. OH...I agree that's what Putin wants.... I disagree that he will get it. (I am very hopefull he won't) If he does ... it will be tough and costly to keep and ultimately not worth it. I would have had NATO forces inserted already. (Message edited by xdigitalx on September 05, 2014) | ||
| Aesquire |
I would have had NATO forces inserted already. So....I'm just guessing here.... YOU don't have sealed records about your college grades or who paid for it, right? You didn't go to Pakistan with your college "partner" illegally on a passport not in "your own" name. You don't believe that you can declare peace while the enemy declares war and then pretend you are right while they murder your people. You haven't declared that the enemy is just a small group easily negotiated with once they realize how freaking awesome you are. You may play more golf than the last couple of guys at your job combined....... But I strongly doubt you played golf instead of going to the funerals of people who worked for you who died on the job. In other words, you are not clinically mentally ill... or if you are, you are a bit more functional. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Putin will invade and annex more of Ukraine no matter what unless the West stops him. The tactic of a ceasefire is pure unadulterated BS and everyone, including Rocket, knows this. Fact is the West wants a war in Ukraine. A ceasefire will not get the U.S. ultimately what it wants. NATO installed AND an EU trading partner in Ukraine. Monday will see more sanctions go ahead, already confirmed - unless they have a change of heart over the weekend........doubtful. http://rt.com/usa/185460-obama-readying-sanctions- russia-peace/ Porechenkov agreed upon a ceasefire possibly as a stalling tactic whilst restocking their depleted arsenal. Russia will be held accountable for breaching the ceasefire. Expansionism the required excuse to re engage. Of course, the expansionism is really that of the west as the lines on the map will eventually show. Unless round 2 sees Putin step up from his so far diplomatic efforts. Welsh NATO meet ends with Cameron's announcement, new NATO 'task' force, combined of four nations, 1000 military from the UK. Ditto from U.S. The White House today claimed not to see how such could be regarded as threatening, or at the very least, provocative. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/05/nato- 4000-rapid-reaction-force-baltics-russia SO MUCH FOR A CEASEFIRE ME THINKS Rocket in England | ||
| Aesquire |
Of course, the expansionism is really that of the west as the lines on the map will eventually show yes. indeed they will. Bets on the new border? west or east of the Danube? and whither goest Turkey? | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Don't see the Danube in the equation? It's all about whether Ukraine leans west, or a New Russia sprouts up east Ukraine. Either way, NATO will have their forces along the border from the Balkans to the Black Sea. Turkey will remain pro Europe, Syria being the only hiccup between what is effectively a solid wall of NATO (read U.S. military) presence from the most northerly point of Finland all the way south to Israel. Rocket in England | ||
| Hootowl |
"effectively a solid wall of NATO (read U.S. military) presence from the most northerly point of Finland all the way south to Israel." You're welcome. Sometimes I wonder why we don't just let Europe get run over. Defending you seems to be a thankless job. | ||
| Aesquire |
I understand the sentiment Hoot, It seems that every time the US goes isolationist, Europe burns. That's true, but it only goes back a short time frame. The US has only been able to "interfere with World Affairs" since Teddy Roosevelt. You could go back to Admiral Perry, but actually exert power on the world stage I'd say WW1. After WW1 Europe, having been hammered and more important having a planetary disaster level of loss of life, has PTSD. The majority of losses were with young men and men in their prime of life. The most productive members of society and the ones that protect the weak. Consider the implications of that on the political, moral, and societal levels. Throw in that the 20th century saw the rise of the neo-marxist State Worshiping and Welfare State movements.... You got Europe. Yes the isolationist attitude of America pre WW2 was a factor in the actions of the Axis powers, entire books have been written on the subject. But before the 20th Century Europe was pretty much at constant war since clubs with bits of stone jammed into it was considered front line issue. It really isn't our fault the Europeans kill each other. ( might be the Neanderthal genes...  ) So, Hoot, I dig the lack of desire to continue as the worlds policeman, since we really don't want the Imperial mindset that takes. Rocket, I think a Novy-russia partition of the Ukraine looks like a done deal, the only question is where will the border be? Also how will the milling bunch of idiots that is "the west" react? It's more or less up to Putin at this point.. IMHO. Which way he goes? see motivations 1-4 above. Turkey pro-Europe? That is not how I'm reading it. I don't think they will lean towards the Russians, but I'm thinking it probable they will try and be boss of the Caliphate. That assumes continued support in strategy for the Caliphate jihad by the current US regime. ( by incompetence or covertly.....your call ) | ||
| Aesquire |
Oh, by the way, Rocket. Your what is effectively a solid wall of NATO (read U.S. military) presence viewpoint is exactly 180 out of phase. It's not "nato surrounds Russia" it's "Russia has created the defensive alliance by it's aggression in the last century" Of course a cancer is surrounded by healthy cells. It's because the cancer destroys them as it grows. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
You're welcome. Sometimes I wonder why we don't just let Europe get run over. Defending you seems to be a thankless job. See, it's ignorance on such a scale that would have me shout you down every time as nothing but a confrontational idiot. Rocket in England | ||
| Hootowl |
Try reading some history instead of blowing up at people. Or, if you can't be bothered, read the words you just typed. You admit the US has built a defensive wall between Russia and Europe, and then you claim that we haven't. | ||
| Pwnzor |
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| Aesquire |
Hoot, you have to understand an aspect of psychology. Help someone, they are grateful for a short time, then carry on with life. Remind them they should be grateful, and you get resentment. You'd feel the same way. Often you get resentment anyway when they feel bad about getting help. That is cultural and has a lot of denial wrapped up in it. This also explains In a small way the bad attitude of government dole & aid recipients. They don't feel gratitude to the faceless and uncaring bureaucracy they might toward, say, the nice folk at the church that practice real charity. ( many will if the charity is preachy about laying a guilt trip ) PLUS a nearly subliminal resentment in Govt. Welfare drones that they are worthless and oppressed....because they are TOLD by their political masters that they are worth - Less.... and then you have the natural resentment since the political classes keep asking for gratitude....... because they FEEL they are giving charity, when they are not. But I digress... Europe, by now is tired of being reminded that they were saved from Hitler. After all half of them were saved from Hitler only to be conquered by Stalin..... who murdered far more of them than Hitler. Now, it's absolutely true that without the US protecting Europe from the Soviet Empire for 50 odd years they'd all be slaves. And it's true that without the US paying for the military that protected freedom for 50 odd years Europe could never have afforded the Social programs that have sunk them. ( because the math does not work unless you are rich enough.... and fails when/if your demographics shift... as they have in Europe. ) But it's also true that many Europeans resent the fact that they are in their own heads "dissed" by the US because they are incapable of defending themselves... ( and the resentment to all the "you should be grateful" crap ) We could always pull out of Nato. Obama would love that since the power it gives him is balanced by the fact he doesn't want the responsibility that comes with it, and he really doesn't like the Europeans because of the Daddy issue anti-colonialism hate he has. If we did pull out, Nato has the Germans, the Brits, and the French, which means only 2 competent and understrength armed forces to hold off the Empire. The pools then would be how many weeks to the Danbue, to the Channel, and which day did the conquest begin. 2014 or 1914? Does that help explain the psychosis of "America didn't/doesn't save Europe" and "America is the aggressive Imperialist" in the same head? (Message edited by aesquire on September 07, 2014) | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
NATO is a joke. Without the U.S. military most, if not all, of Europe would be steamrolled by the Russians in about a month. NATO member countries are supposed to spend at least 2% of GDP on defense but the vast majority don't. Germany's Air Force is effectively grounded. GB doesn't have an active aircraft carrier. Europe is too busy importing Islam and giving their citizens free "everything" to be worried about mundane things like national defense. So, until Europe starts footing the bill for their own defense I suggest they STFU. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Turkey pro-Europe? That is not how I'm reading it. I don't think they will lean towards the Russians, but I'm thinking it probable they will try and be boss of the Caliphate. Turkey destabilise 50 years working as a European partner in favour of supporting a group which would see them lose their respect and position as a regional power? They'd be jeapordising a stability through decades of friendship with Europe. Your what is effectively a solid wall of NATO (read U.S. military) presence viewpoint is exactly 180 out of phase. It's not "nato surrounds Russia" it's "Russia has created the defensive alliance by it's aggression in the last century" Oh c'mon. It's not like Russia has moved its landmass, or its military presence west. In fact Russia has relinquished its eastern Unions. They've become countries in their own right. The Russian border is further east than it's been in centuries. These relinquished Unions, all of, now European Union countries, and all with NATO in residence. Going back not even a year, where before the Ukraine troubles was Russia? No suggestion whatsoever of Russia being a country Europe and America needed defending from. This might not be the case now but for the great diplomacy and statesmanship of Putin. Had it been a different time in history as some here so like to revert back to, I fear Russia would be well on the march further west, having taken Kiev months ago. Be careful what you wish for. Rocket in England | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/387262/welco me-interregnum-jonah-goldberg | ||
| Aesquire |
Not only is Rocket not interested in ancient history, like last decade, but the recent intervention in Georgia is also forgotten.... Something about "Russian Speaking Peoples" IIRC..... It's ok, I did say I wasn't going to blame Rocket for The Protector and his genocide.... or Tony Blair for his actions..... | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Try reading some history instead of blowing up at people. Blowing up at people? Examples welcome....or pot calling kettle me thinks. As for reading 'some' history. I've yet to see which part of history has a bearing on Ukraine which is relevant to the current state of affairs except that of the most recent history since the end of the Cold War. The slightly warmer version of which is being played out nicely by the U.S. as they gain territorial advantages tip toe fashion befriending new allies as they move ever closer towards Russia. Or should that be, as they present themselves as a greater threat towards Russia. If I were Russian I would find it very difficult to see the Western alliances between Europe, America, and NATO, as their collaborations being that of strictly defensive. They appear more like an organisation ready for attack. Or, if you can't be bothered, read the words you just typed. You admit the US has built a defensive wall between Russia and Europe, and then you claim that we haven't. I'm afraid you've lost me there. I'm firmly of the opinion there is a wall and have not claimed otherwise. I don't believe I've ever referred to this wall strictly as a defensive one. You're welcome to show otherwise  Rocket in England | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Dam dude... I hope that the people in charge of Russia's military do not think the same way as you rocket. If they do.... we are all in big trouble. | ||
| Sifo |
"befriending new allies" Now that's real aggression there. I keep wondering what western aggression I'm missing that you keep speaking of. Now I understand. Certainly any nation that would dare to befriend another nation should be retaliated against. With deadly force if necessary! | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Just so's we're clear. The British are ungrateful or just me? Puleeeze  Why the need for this repetitive bash the ungrateful Brit's crap? It won't win you an argument. Not against me it won't. It's meant as provocative. It's childish and lacking intelligence is what it is. I expect better of my BadWeB friends. I really do. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
NATO is a joke. Without the U.S. military most, if not all, of Europe would be steamrolled by the Russians in about a month. NATO member countries are supposed to spend at least 2% of GDP on defense but the vast majority don't. Germany's Air Force is effectively grounded. GB doesn't have an active aircraft carrier. Europe is too busy importing Islam and giving their citizens free "everything" to be worried about mundane things like national defense. So, until Europe starts footing the bill for their own defense I suggest they STFU. Keep up to speed. Especially when making such bold and misinformed statements. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/110 78244/Britain-will-have-a-second-aircraft-carrier. html "The two carriers are the biggest ships ever built for the Royal Navy" - David Cameron Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Not only is Rocket not interested in ancient history, like last decade, but the recent intervention in Georgia is also forgotten.... I would appreciate you not speaking for me if you're not going to speak facts Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Dam dude... I hope that the people in charge of Russia's military do not think the same way as you rocket. If they do.... we are all in big trouble. You may jest my friend. I doubt you know how close to the truth you could be. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
"befriending new allies" Now that's real aggression there. I keep wondering what western aggression I'm missing that you keep speaking of. Now I understand. Clearly you don't! Certainly any nation that would dare to befriend another nation should be retaliated against. With deadly force if necessary! Where relevant to the Ukraine matter is this happening pray tell? Rocket in England | ||
| Sifo |
"The two carriers are the biggest ships ever built for the Royal Navy" - David Cameron According to the link you provided, neither one is ready at this point. Seems quite accurate to state that GB doesn't have an active carrier. Going by the artists rendering, they are building a pretty small carrier to boot, even if it is the biggest they've done to date. Kind of sums up what was said about leaning on the might of the US.  | ||
| Buellistic |
If we let RUSSIA do their thing, the mooslambs will never take over Europe !!! (Message edited by buellistic on September 07, 2014) | ||
| Aesquire |
Rocket, I tried.... using logic and history to explain why we shouldn't pick on the previous world power. I can't explain what happened to the "Sun Never Sets" empire, other than the horrible cost of WW2 and domestic politics.... heavily influenced by the Soviets to remove England from play on the world stage.... and has not yet totally succeeded. You would know far more about the WHY of the fall of the British Empire than I, one would certainly think. Are there major factors beyond the 2 I mention above? Of course I don't speak for you... just as you say you do not speak for the people I see as professional and religious deceivers, who have a track record of falsehoods for between one and ten hundred years.... ( depending on if you speak of the neo-Marxist cults or the Jihadi ) It sure does seem at a distance that you do not trust the forces that very imperfectly represent freedom and western civilization while being awesomely credulous and defensive about the forces bent on it's destruction and replacement with an unelected aristocracy and forced submission to an intolerant and murderous man made religion. As I say, it seems that way.... I suppose I should just ask which side you are hypothetically on in the conflict between, let's say, Iranian freedom protesters and the Ayatollahs? | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/387188/forei gn-legion-losers-jonah-goldberg Rather, my point is that to a considerable extent, the Islamic State — and groups like it — is a modern Foreign Legion for losers. When discussing people who openly boast of rape, murder, and torture, “loser” is hardly too harsh. But invective is not my intent when I call them losers. These men — and a few women, too — are losers in a more significant sense. They are losers at Western civilization. Recently the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) posted transcripts from Facebook and Twitter conversations among various French and British supporters of the Islamic State. They enthusiastically chatted about the exciting news that you can buy slave women in areas controlled by the Islamic State. The terrorist group reportedly captured an unknown number of women from the ethnic minority called Yazidis. They aren’t Muslims, so they can be used as chattel. The men in the discussions asked all sorts of questions about the rules for sexually abusing (i.e., raping) the women. One British Muslim asked, “I have 3,500 dollars to spare, I am going to buy ten, who wants one?” A French man joked that 180 dollars must be the “price for the ugly ones.” There were plenty of “LOLs” in the thread. Because, you know, collecting the female survivors of mass murder and raping them is just so Laugh-Out-Loud funny to cretins who can bed women only at sword-point. I know what side I'm on. Dar el Harb all the way baby! |
