| Author | Message | ||
     Aesquire |
I see Russia's stand on Missile Defense has not changed. Let me paraphrase... "You will not have any armor so we can kill you at will. Being able to defend yourself is destabilizing. It reduces our ability to oppress and exploit you." As Previously stated, Europe keeps attacking Russia, so of course they fear you violent psychopaths. Castro is a wonderful example of open and caring Communist enlightenment. ( meaning he's a mass murdering dictator who rules with an iron fist, or did until he got too old ) His Viewpoint should get the respect it deserves. None Whatsoever. I did like the picture of the Lesbian in Wales, looks like a nice tat. She should go protest in Moscow, maybe she can get a cell next to Pussy Power. Is Nato asking for Nuclear weapons? From England? You guys aren't thinking of giving Brussels the power to threaten Crete or Sicily with nuclear strikes if they object to stealing the money from the people by taking it from the banks, are you? | ||
| Sifo |
Who could blame Putin or Russia for wanting to protect its borders. I'm a bit unclear how protecting Russia's borders involves invading Ukraine. | ||
| Aesquire |
It's all about defense in depth. By making Germany, or England, Or France, ( all have invaded Russia ) fight across the occupied countries on the way to Moscow, that gives Russia enough time to mobilize and send enough troops to recapture the conquered territory, and most of the dead won't be Russian. Win-Win. Keep in mind Russia lost more people in WW2 than anyone else. This has a profound effect on their attitude towards getting invaded again. And again. And again. Ideally the Russian borders would be at the Atlantic, and then they don't have to worry about invasion at all..... except from China, or Japan. ( who have ALSO invaded Russia ) So the only way to be sure you don't get invaded is to conquer the whole world and make everyone else into slaves. See? Simple. Historically correct, and ongoing. They just had a little pause while the Marxist Leninist collectivist economic theories had a chance to prove they were a major disaster for everyone except the aristocracy. Now that they are an oil producing nation, they can afford to finish the job started in WW2. Pretty sure that's what Obama promised to be flexible about. | ||
| Sifo |
NOW I understand! | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
You talk a load of rubbish. Russia could walk over Ukraine in a matter of days, which ridicules the suggestion Russia has already invaded. Rocket in England | ||
| Sifo |
Oh, of course. Never before has a megalomaniac started out somewhat slowly, denying what was being done. Nope, never ever happened that way through recorded history. To even suggest such a thing is absurd! | ||
| Reindog |
There is virtually no distinction between the imperial intentions of Putin and Hitler. None. Wake the 'f' up. | ||
| Aesquire |
Russia could walk over Ukraine in a matter of days Oh, I agree. Putin says 2 weeks but I think he's including the fair and impartial elections. which ridicules the suggestion Russia has already invaded Gee, what part of Putin SAYING he invaded Ukraine did you miss? Oh, sure that is a paraphrase... he actually said he sent in unmarked Russian troops to keep the peace, oversee the election and run the communications facilities until Marked troops arrived. That was after the Russian officials said they did not send in unmarked troops into Crimean Ukraine in violation of international law. And before Russian officials denied sending troops or weapons to East Ukraine. No denials yet on unmarked troops in Brighton. ( sarcasm...joke ) It looks like the Ukraine forces are not quite as wimpy as I thought since a few Russian mothers are asking where their sons are. Of course they could have died in traffic accidents, which commonly kills more than combat. And there is no proof that the missing soldiers died in Ukraine, or that they were not killed by pro-Moscow Ukrainians. Other than that, what is rubbish? Russia has been invaded by Europeans, and England ( I would not blame you for denying that you are European ) & I think by Germany enough times you are into the fancy Roman Numerals... L? C? True? You want references? Russia has always advocated a defense in depth, for the reasons above. The cynical part about having the occupied country's people die instead of Russians is not the kind of thing you publish, but I bet it has been discussed at length in the Kremlin. True? References available. Russia did lose more people than anyone else in WW2, and it HAS made a big impact on the Russian psyche. I just read an article about living in Stalingrad where the younger generation has complained that the old folk just can't stop talking about how bad it was. Every week, the parents would drag the kids out to the mass graves, now it's grandparents, and the now adults have issues from being guilt tripped their whole lives because they didn't live through the industrial strength Hell of a City at war. In Stalingrad the tank factory actually had tanks roll off the line and start fighting for the other end of the factory. Yeah, I'd say it's a pretty traumatized country. Like France and England after the massive losses in WW1. How many young French men died? That really messed up the normal demographics. You can read a lot of post war French politics in that light, and see how they got the international reputation for having the worst Generals. ( but very good soldiers ) Conquering the whole planet was the stated Soviet goal, if not all that realistic, but IIRC the Russians had a joke/boast "3 weeks to the Channel." A bit optimistic. There's also the joke about the 2 Soviet tank generals who meet in a café in Paris, and ask "who won the air war?". | ||
| Aesquire |
And.... a bit further south.... Russia is a supporter of the Alawite clan running Syria. They have very good reason to do so, including a multigenerational investment in the region, and a warm water port and base, desperately needed by a nation that has enormous coastlines, and really crappy ports. Not just made crappy, Almost All are ice locked much of the year. If you want to move products you move them by ship. You want to protect your shipping you need a Navy. You want to deny the enemy shipping, you need a Navy. A Navy that can't leave harbor might as well not exist. But... The Soviet Union had the Black Sea, and it's link to the Med, and then the rest of the planet. The trouble is that all traffic in and out of the Black Sea has to pass by Constantinople... yeah.... that's an old name.... How about Troy? ( the bit about Helen was.... propaganda. The Greeks took Troy because it was RICH from controlling traffic into and out of the Black Sea. Back then... it was tin. You needed tin to make weapons. ) So the Russians need that safe, warm water port, and they need to have a naval presence that cannot be stopped by blocking the Hellespont or Bosphorus. Parking the ships in Syria accomplishes that nicely. Then came the Arab Spring. Civilizations' Fall. Urged on by Barack Obama, for reasons I can only guess, Several countries along he north of Africa were encouraged to revolt against the established governments, and said governments were/are being replaced by various factions of the Muslim Brotherhood, a terrorist organization. In Syria, Barack Obama encouraged the revolt, promised aid, ran a gun running program, and it seems now supplied weapons to what is now known as ISIS. There was a lot of ego driven betrayal and bombast, as Obama failed to actually help anyone, while making up red lines, and discarding them as fast as his staff could read a poll. Now this paragon of incompetence ( at foreign policy... he's super competent at betrayal and lies ) has moved on to trying to not lose face as he bumbles and fumbles his way through the Caliphate War, ( which he will not admit exists ) with the insane prospect of relying on Iran and Russia to save Syria and conquer Iraq. As allies with the regime Obama swore to destroy? The wild card is Turkey, which has been rejected by the racists in the EU and exploited by the EU "Oligarchs" and is running headlong into becoming a Jihadi State too... Where this ends up and with which allies? Welcome to The Caliphate War. It has been declared. It is in Progress. It IS coming to your shore. | ||
| Aesquire |
An important part of the Caliphate War, is of course Israel. While it may indeed end up being a major player in regional events, especially in it's relationship with Iran, Probably the major factor Israel plays at this time is an excuse for hatred and raising money from Useful Idiots abroad. Remember, Iran has been "5 years from a nuclear weapon" for more than 20 years now..... | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I think you need to forget your history books. Shut the so and so up about past wars. Comparisons to Hitler, how nauseating. Here's the thing. What makes you believe your country can interfere in Ukraine politics, sanction Russia, lead other countries to sanction Russia, build up NATO and U.S. military in neighbouring countries to Russia AND EXPECT RUSSIA TO SIT BACK AND TAKE A LUDE WHEN THIS IS AN EXTENDED RUSSIAN COUNTRY INHABITED BY MANY RUSSIANS If this is not about U.S. desires and it's all about humanitarian aid, why doesn't the U.S. stick its oar into Saudi Arabia where they behead around 20 people a month, and have thousands in prisons for nothing more than being human. The hypocrisy sucks, and so does yours. Putin is no more evil than the tits running the U.S. . In fact it's likely he's a lot less evil than the warmongers of the West. After all, we've yet to see Putin and Russia start a war and engage in a war, as America has several times since the end of the Cold War. Why do you think that is Paddy? Rocket in England | ||
| Reindog |
Tell that to Estonia because they are in Putin's target. Estonia was the Lebensraum for the Soviets. Your lovely Russians tried to ban the Estonian language and destroy Estonian culture. Rocket, you are simply misguided about Putin but I do enjoy your acerbic wit. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
There is virtually no distinction between the imperial intentions of Putin and Hitler. None. Wake the 'f' up. We can only hope there are no persons in power who share your barbaric thoughts. God help the world if someone is stupid enough to be so ignorant and tasked with the interests of nations and peoples. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
The day Russia take back Estonia is the day the Russian's will have realised world war three is imminent. I don't see this happening anytime soon. Do you? Rocket in England | ||
| Reindog |
I think Estonia is on Putin's list but WW3 will possible be caused by such an action. Russia will arm or move in to protect the ethnic Russians just like Adolph did with the Sudeten Germans. I have a LOT of Estonian friends and they HATE the Russians without exception for what the Soviet Union did to them. | ||
| Davegess |
And if the Irish republic sends troops into Antrim you are OK with this Rocket? pretty much the same story there as in Eastern Ukraine. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO #mediaviewer/File:Map_of_NATO_chronological.gif First, get over the drama. Putin is not Hitler. Motivations and history are different. Vladimir isn't a crazy flying saucer cult racist. Estonia? recent Nato member possible trigger? Hmmm. Putin is an aggressive ruthless fellow. No doubt. Smart too. That doesn't mean he's evil....( Hitler was evil ) Putin is either 1. Acting in the best interests of his people in the face of Nato aggression. 2. Hell bent on rebuilding the Empire, world domination eventual goal. 3. A mix of the above, hopefully more good guy than mad emperor. 4, you tell me. ----------- #3 would be my preference, and guess. He's too sane and corrupt to be either solid 1 or 2. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Putin is either 1. Acting in the best interests of his people in the face of Nato aggression. 2. Hell bent on rebuilding the Empire, world domination eventual goal. 3. A mix of the above, hopefully more good guy than mad emperor. 4, you tell me. ----------- #3 would be my preference, and guess. He's too sane and corrupt to be either solid 1 or 2. How about 4. Putin the peacemaker.... http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/09/03/uk-ukrain e-crisis-ceasefire-idUKKBN0GY0NW20140903 http://rt.com/news/184716-poroshenko-ceasefire-ukr aine-putin/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/u kraine/11071852/Ukraine-ceasefire-live.html The West didn't see this one coming eh  Perhaps because they're too busy keeping their fingers on the button....... http://stopwar.org.uk/news/who-bankrolls-islamic-t errorism-david-cameron-knows-but-his-lips-are-seal ed#.VAZw9cVdVIH Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I have a LOT of Estonian friends and they HATE the Russians without exception for what the Soviet Union did to them. Good for you. I have a few Russian friends who love mother Russia. Doesn't make my presence here more worthy. Rocket in England | ||
| Aesquire |
Excellent, let's hope Rocket is right on that and the Evil Obama doesn't mess things up. I think a betting pool would be a violation of forum rules.... So we can declare this thread complete? Great. I'm always happy to be wrong when I'm pessimistic. ( a much better feeling than disappointment from Optimism ) | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Patrick, that's a good way to see it. I say so as I was disappointed to hear the best Obama could offer was pretty much negative. Rocket in England | ||
| Blake |
We (formerly Vertex Communications, now General Dynamics C4S) have a factory in Estonia that is fabricating the main reflector panels for the MeerKAT Radio Telescope Interferometer array qty. 64 x 13.5m dia. liquid helium cooled radio telescope antennas) going into South Africa. Really neat project. Design/engineering and fabrication involve Duisburg, Germany; Dallas, Texas; Kilgore (little ol' me) Texas; British Columbia, Canada; Estonia; the U.K.; Austria.; and S. Africa. See http://ska.ac.za/meerkat/ for more information. More such friendly cooperation, less greed and power-mongering would be beneficial in the world. http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0GX23Q201 40902?irpc=932 When any govt starts shooting its own peacefully assembled citizens, cooperation becomes difficult. | ||
| Reindog |
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| Aesquire |
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/386990/vladi mir-putins-hitlerian-mind-george-will George Will disagrees with me, he thinks Putin IS "Hitlerian". I do hope he is not right. I hope Putin will be a peacemaker. I hope Milla needs a back rub and will call me. But... If Putin moves more in the direction of re-establishing the Soviet Empire, then we can only conclude that Rocket is an apologist for an oppressive regime. Perhaps out of woeful ignorance or foolishness based on a ideology he refuses to admit to... Or if Putin IS a peacemaker Rocket has an acute grasp of reality. I'm hoping he's sane. And that I'm wrong. http://www.jerrypournelle.com/chaosmanor/bashing-t he-balrog-economic-war-with-russia/ So we are to put Putin in his place with economic warfare. I am reminded of the filk song “Bashing the Balrog.” Perhaps we need a new verse. It would indicate that once you start bashing the balrog, the balrog gets to bash you. Economic warfare, like any war, is costly to all the participants. There is real damage. Most of it is to property, and the casualties are profits and bank accounts, but the damage and casualties are quite real even so; and most economic wars end with no real winners, and a great deal of residual resentment. There are no established rules of engagement or laws of economic war, and no clear paths to victory; and we have little experience in ending an economic war. About forty years ago, RAND Corporation published several studies on the theme of “hostile trade”, mostly about Japanese foreign policy during the Shogunate. I presume there are later studies of economic war, but I’m not familiar with them. It does seem a hazardous venture. Russia needs Russians, or Slavs who speak Russian, and needs them badly; Russian population decline is an existential threat to Putin’s nation, and his power to do something about it grows less with time. The US possesses neither the means nor the will to prevent Russia from increasing its influence over, and probably eventually annexing, the Don area of the Ukraine. Making what Russia sees as a vital interest cost a great deal more than it would without our economic war effort will not be ignored. Bashing the balrog is an adventurous undertaking. Perhaps this is what the President meant by a “reset” in relations with Russia? An economic Cold War? http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/how-t he-west-drove-russia-into-ukraine/#.VAiGN2d0yos Hopefully Putin has faced down the West for now. I note that the above article confirms that Russia is, again, lying. This confirms my bigotry against oppressive regimes. As previously stated, there are ideologies/religions that endorse and indeed praise the lie as a tactic in gaining power. Russia was dominated by a relatively small group of very evil men for the bulk of the 20th century. It may still be. I fear it is. ISIS certainly is a relatively small group of very evil men, and they too lie as a matter of course in dealing with outsiders. ISIS is also a slave owning, pre-medieval culture that very openly wants to rule the world... in the name of the very intolerant sliver of religion they force upon others. Welcome to the Caliphate War. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/387006/only- deterrence-can-prevent-war-victor-davis-hanson http://www.nationalreview.com/article/387035/brink -editors http://www.nationalreview.com/article/386999/china -rips-its-mask-michael-auslin Obviously a bunch of pessimists... After All, the "Reset" has brought us new levels of diplomacy with Russia... right? | ||
| Macbuell |
Funny ... after Putin sends in Russians troops turning the tide in the fighting, forcing the Ukranians to retreat and taking back all the territory that the Ukranians had taken from the Seperatists, Putin wants a ceasefire? Well, of course he does, he accomplished what he wanted ... pushing back the Ukrainian forces and giving Russia a solid foothold in the Ukraine. And we are supposed to praise him as a peacemaker for this? How incredibly absurd in every way imaginable. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I knew it was only a matter of time before someone here claimed Russia had beaten the Ukrainian army back. Of course, if this were true there'd be much proof, and I doubt much talk of a ceasefire coming out of Kiev. I'd enjoy to read, better still, see the proof of these Russian forces at work in east Ukraine. I mean, you'd think if any military group of people were able to accomplish such a feat they would not be able to do so unidentified when this conflict is under the scrutiny of the worlds best observers. Be they spooks, spies, government agencies, or even just the worlds press. How could Russia play hide and seek under such a bright spotlight? The answer is, THEY DIDN'T. THEY WEREN'T THERE! Rocket in England | ||
| Aesquire |
Weren't where? Not in the Crimean part of Ukraine, the Eastern part of Ukraine, or the southern part of Ukraine? BTW, the "pro-Russian" forces claimed they beat the Ukrainian army back. The jerks in Kiev now seems less enthusiastic about the cease fire Putin urges on the combatants. Russia, of course, has announced it has nothing to do with the cease fire, since they are not involved in any way other than as brokers of peace and suppliers of humanitarian assistance. It's the Pro-Russian leftist guy from Spike ( link above ) who claims Russia has troops in Eastern and Southern Ukraine. Putin says he has troops in the Crimean region formerly run by Ukraine. Obama is busy looking for a red dry erase marker to put down another line.... he's under a bit of pressure to take a break from his busy Campaign fund raising and golf schedule to do his job. Personally I prefer it when he's golfing. He kills less people. Just want to remind everyone that Russia Endorses Hillary for President in 2016. (Message edited by aesquire on September 04, 2014) | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Australia to train Ukrainian troops: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-n ews/australia-to-step-up-civil-and-military-assist ance-for-ukraine-as-tony-abbott-takes-greater-posi tion-on-world-stage-20140903-10c28y.html#ixzz3CN3N XS8l | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Interesting that Sky News report. They're reporting on every FM radio station (it's a package deal) similar crap. "Rag tag" my arse. Next they'll be claiming they're a bunch of farmers with pitch forks, so anyone looks like a soldier must be a Russian soldier. Not to mention Spetznaz. Tell me U.S. special forces aren't in play. Ditto the SAS. Would not surprise me if Mossad's in there too. And the Foreign Legion. Hell it's a free for all isn't it? Merc's. You, me. Anyone can come and have a go.....even Obama. On his way to Wales he chose the oh so befitting stop over - Estonia. Sorry Mr Obama you're not fooling me one bit. The day Putin meets with Porechenkov for peace, Obama's rallying the troops. And as if by magic, he threatens if the ceasefire doesn't hold the U.S. are right now working on plans for even more sanctions on Russia. Way to go Mr O. How peaceable of you. Meanwhile, BBC Radio 4 reporting from Wales NATO gathering, Porechenkov is cautiously optimistic the ceasefire will hold. Claims he's signing late (Friday) tomorrow afternoon. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/04/ukrai ne-nato-ceasefire-leaders-welcome-putin-poroshenko Mind them (Russian) tanks! They're invisible right up until the moment they pose for the news cameras  Rocket in England |
