Looks like that FLHP needs a steering head bearing adjustment.
I don't care whether HIPO motorcycles are gas or coal powered, but it seems like the zero is underpowered for LEO loads. Seems like a great idea, until you start loading it down with gear and an overweight LEO.
I would like to see my state get away from using import bikes. WA and CA are the only two places I've ever seen that use any type of import vehicle for their police force. I'd rather my taxpayer dollars stay (mostly) here in the US.
Good point Rick. There is a way to go, and nobody can argue with a straight face that pure electrical vehicles make economic (or even environmental) sense for anything but a tiny slice of possible use cases.
But I will say that burning coal in a powerplant to make electricity can be done MUCH cleaner and efficiently then burning gasoline in an internal combustion motor.
Exhaust scrubbers can (and are) building sized, start up and warm up time can (and are) measured in days and run time before shut down is measured in months, and the systems can be as heavy as necessary and precisely engineered to wring out every last joule of power.
So it's good to remind the eco-niave that "clean power" is basically coal power, and that coal is actually very clean and efficient.
We just need to figure out how to make cheaper better batteries (we have come a LONG way but we have a LONG way to go), and we need a way to figure out how to make coal (or a coal like substance) faster.
Sadly MPGe is a government policy that has nothing whatsoever to do with Department of Energy energy equivalencies. Propaganda would be the appropriate word.
We had this discussion a while back, it is not propaganda no matter how much you don't like it.
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Cop bikes are typically used to patrol highways. They put on a lot of miles in a day.
Have you ever been to Reading, PA? It has no highways. The city is about 10 square miles, all of the police usage will be a low speeds and stoplight to stoplight, where the Zero shines and the Harley roasts. I'm not sure of the exact city limits, but Bing maps shows the two furthest corers to be under about 3 miles apart.
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They put on a lot of miles in a day. Depending on model, the claimed highway range is 60 to 101 miles. Stop pulling numbers out of your warm moist place.
I got my numbers right from Zero's website, which is a city number, which is how the police will be using it. Just like on gassers, that number is due to specific testing, and your mileage will vary, but a real world range of 150-200 miles is very realistic when they are rated for 171 in the city.
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That 95% charge requires an expensive, specialized charger too. You really lose the argument when you fabricate your claims.
Zero fabrication, zero expensive chargers needed. It takes almost 10 hours to charge up the biggest battery on a standard household 110v but it is doable if you have no faster options available.
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Like having to down it multiple times per shift to hook up to an expensive piece of single purpose equipment?
Again you have an unrealistic view of how often it will be plugged in, and how single use something is.
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You can refuel a car at any gas station. Not your ZERO
Correct, I am not aware of any gas stations that can charge electric vehicles, other than some rest stops on I-95 that have electric charging ports and gas stations. On that same note, you can't get gas at most electric charging stations either.
Conveniently, there is a station right outside Reading that can charge even the biggest capacity Zero to 95% in an hour.
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Of course most police tend to use a municipal pump for refueling. Now you want to add more equipment for refueling purposes the take a long time to refuel the vehicle? This will require multiple stations if you want to keep multiple bikes on the road. Equipment and space cost cash!
Yep I know my local cops got their own private fueling station. While it is completely optional, adding an electric rapid charging station would be beneficial in the long term as fleets start to convert to electric. It starts with the bikes, after a while some of those Crown Vics would get replaced with other e-vehicles when they start making that a possibility. In the meantime, just plug it into a standard 110v overnight.
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It would if it were. It's also unproven at this point in time.
I've already proven it above. Lower MSRP, lower refueling cost, lower maintenance cost. It costs less on day one, also on day two and every day after that.
If the Zero works out for Reading's motor officers, how long before someone in their city gov't suggests an electric patrol car? Probably already happened there and lots of other places.
Move over Crown Vic, Taurus, Caprice PPV, and the rest.
Nothing wrong with electric cars.....except heaters and range.
Electrics are handicapped by winter. The battery is cold and in most cases down on power and electrical resistance heating of a car is a major power hog.
A Chevy that did 80+ miles in sunny Kalifornia did 25 in Vermont in winter.
Electric police car in Reading? I doubt it's time....yet.
The range on the latest most expensive electric is nearly double what you got 108 years ago. At that rate electrics will be practical for your great grandchildren.
But the rate is not the same and practical for a lot of people is real soon. For some, now.
It will be interesting to see how they work out.
I have my doubts that mpge is realistic and yes it is part propaganda........but you have to start somewhere to have a comparable number. If/when it turns out to be a poor comparison it will get adjusted or not depending on the bureaucracy and politics.
If someone gave me a Tesla ( or other rich guy toy ) I'd be grateful and might even keep it. I'd dump a Fiskar in a heartbeat.
And no matter your brand preference...... you want electric cars you have to build more power generation. Period fracking dot.
Froggy, you continue to compare the zero to big cruiser bikes. I've pointed out that the rolls they fill well are different. The ZERO may be a good choice for Reading, PA. Our local police forces don't seem to use bikes at all. State does, and that leaves them patrolling state express ways. The ZERO would suck in that roll.
Yes, we have had the MPGe discussion in the past. You refused to acknowledge that simple fact that MPGe is nothing even similar to energy conversions estimates done by the Department of Energy. One is based on science, one is based on politics. It's propaganda.
I got my numbers right from Zero's website, which is a city number, which is how the police will be using it. Just like on gassers, that number is due to specific testing, and your mileage will vary, but a real world range of 150-200 miles is very realistic when they are rated for 171 in the city.
Again, I've got call BS on this. Here's what their web site actually shows...
Why you think that you can take their best mileage figures (even if you fabricated them), and stretch them another 30 mile, I have no clue. What do you base this on?
Zero fabrication, zero expensive chargers needed. It takes almost 10 hours to charge up the biggest battery on a standard household 110v but it is doable if you have no faster options available.
Again, total BS statement. You claimed that you could 95% charge in an hour. I pointed out that requires an expensive, single purpose device, with dedicated space for the vehicle. That all cost money. You are now claiming that's not true. To update your initial statement... Drive around all day in the morning, plug it in for 10 hours while you get lunch, then finish up your shift. Who gets 10 hour lunch breaks? You can't even do a full work shift under your scenario.
Correct, I am not aware of any gas stations that can charge electric vehicles, other than some rest stops on I-95 that have electric charging ports and gas stations. On that same note, you can't get gas at most electric charging stations either.
Then why did you claim... It can be refueled on the road at the same places cars are refueled. Total BS.
Yep I know my local cops got their own private fueling station. While it is completely optional, adding an electric rapid charging station would be beneficial in the long term as fleets start to convert to electric. It starts with the bikes, after a while some of those Crown Vics would get replaced with other e-vehicles when they start making that a possibility. In the meantime, just plug it into a standard 110v overnight.
Electric squad cars are a huge technological jump from today's technology. Thinking that anything related to today's technology will be useful on what's required is likely little more than wishful thinking, and I'm being kind. There's nothing on the immediate horizon that will fill that roll. The closest technologies are little more than theory at this point.
I've already proven it above. Lower MSRP, lower refueling cost, lower maintenance cost. It costs less on day one, also on day two and every day after that.
Lower MSRP than what? The big cruiser bike? Again, stop trying for that comparison, they don't fill the same roll. As pointed out, a cheap 250cc would be a much better comparison. If you want to operating costs to big bikes then also compare to what the big bikes are used for. Stop the BS.
Froggy, you continue to compare the zero to big cruiser bikes. I've pointed out that the rolls they fill well are different. The ZERO may be a good choice for Reading, PA. Our local police forces don't seem to use bikes at all. State does, and that leaves them patrolling state express ways. The ZERO would suck in that roll.
Because all the police vehicles happen to be excessively large. Giant Crown Vics, Suburbans, Harleys, and so on. Hell my local police has a 6 wheel amphibious thing, in case there is ever a riot at the ice cream parlor or something.
Zeros can replace the Harleys in the fleet, as they simply do everything better. Highway patrol is better served by a car anyway, as anything beyond giving speeding tickets requires backup.
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Yes, we have had the MPGe discussion in the past. You refused to acknowledge that simple fact that MPGe is nothing even similar to energy conversions estimates done by the Department of Energy. One is based on science, one is based on politics. It's propaganda.
Again, it is the most analogous way of comparing energy consumption. Pretty simple, 1 gallon of gasoline has 115,000 BTU, which converts into 33.7kWh. If an electric vehicle used 33.7kWh to travel 1 mile, it would have a rating of 1MPGe. If it travels exactly 100 miles on that 33.7kWh, that is 100 MPGe (which is about what Teslas are rated for). Now, the Zero S ZF11.4+Power Tank is listed as having 14.2kWh maximum capacity, with 12.5 of that being its nominal capacity. To calculate average MPGe, take its city range (171 miles), divide by nominal capacity (12.5), then multiply it by 33.7kWh. that comes out to 461.016, and Zero's website says it is 462MPGe so there must have been some number rounding in the battery capacity.
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Again, I've got call BS on this. Here's what their web site actually shows...
Why you think that you can take their best mileage figures (even if you fabricated them), and stretch them another 30 mile, I have no clue. What do you base this on?
Again, my numbers are not fabricated, and are lifted right from Zeros website. I'm not sure where you found the numbers for the SP model, as I don't see it listed on their site, but they have variants of the S that hit 171 in the city.
Again, total BS statement. You claimed that you could 95% charge in an hour. I pointed out that requires an expensive, single purpose device, with dedicated space for the vehicle.
So a gas pump is not a expensive, single purpose device, with dedicated space for a vehicle?
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Who gets 10 hour lunch breaks? You can't even do a full work shift under your scenario.
I never said anything like that, of course in BizzaroSifo World that may be possible.
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Then why did you claim... It can be refueled on the road at the same places cars are refueled. Total BS.
Because it can be. There are over 700 charging stations in the US, while that is a drop in the bucket compared to the number of gas stations, it is quickly growing, and like I said before, there is one right outside Reading. There is a good possibility of one opening up inside Reading now too.
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Electric squad cars are a huge technological jump from today's technology. Thinking that anything related to today's technology will be useful on what's required is likely little more than wishful thinking, and I'm being kind. There's nothing on the immediate horizon that will fill that roll. The closest technologies are little more than theory at this point.
Don't worry, I am also being really kind to you regarding your comprehension of my post.
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Lower MSRP than what? The big cruiser bike? Again, stop trying for that comparison, they don't fill the same roll.
Thats true, the only role a Harley cruiser fills is the ability to waste taxpayer money.
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As pointed out, a cheap 250cc would be a much better comparison.
In terms of size yes, in everything else, no. Zero SR has specs that give the XB12S a run for the money.
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If you want to operating costs to big bikes then also compare to what the big bikes are used for.
Exactly what besides wasting money? Like I said before, everything they do with police bikes can be done better and cheaper by a Caprice. The Zero complements them nicely.
>>>>How much can the radio and lights really cost?
Toss in $3,000 for the latest Motorola bike radio. I suspect, in the instant case, that all they are equipping it with is a siren/PA and providing heavy power wire (#10) to the radio tray . . . if it's just siren/PA, figure $1,500.
LED's can add $250 per head. I do notice that the Zero uses about 1/3 the number of heads that the Uly XP did.
Thanks for the info Court! Looks like they have four lights added to the police bike. So that's $1,000. $3,000 for the radio? That's a heck of a radio, but OK. Siren/PA, $1,500. No expense spared there either. So we are at base price plus about $5,500 with very expensive pieces. I'm sure there's more, but I must admit to a level of sticker shock. It does help explain how you get to be a $20K bike though.
All of this start me wondering what capacity battery they go for their $20K bikes though. The base model ZERO with the big battery is $17,490. The cheapest base model goes for $12,995. I'm talking the civilian naked bike versions here, not police upgrades. Or you could get a very kick-ass small bike like the Yamie FZ-07 for $6,990. It would still offer very good performance for a city cop bike, and no technologies that may or may not be obsolete in a few years. I'm sure you could go cheaper and lighter if you really wanted performance more in line with the ZERO. If this kind of cop bike gets popular, we will no doubt see manufacturers go after the market.
The reality I see is that it's electric. That limits performance/usability in huge ways with current technology. That's OK if it fits your needs, but the initial cost is way up there. Honestly the bicycle cop fill much of the same roll as a small city bike with very little cost involved. But what the heck, it's tax payer money. Might as well spend it. If you don't, you can't demand more next year!
Zeros can replace the Harleys in the fleet, as they simply do everything better. Highway patrol is better served by a car anyway, as anything beyond giving speeding tickets requires backup.
Except what the big bikes do better. Ever notice the highway patrol always rides in pairs?
Again, it is the most analogous way of comparing energy consumption.
It's been a while since I've looked at this so I don't remember ALL the issues with their conversion methods, but the big one I remember is that they don't consider the energy required to produce the electricity. There's huge losses there. As I recall though, there were other very serious issues also. If I get time and feel like pounding a nail into my forehead I may look it up again. It's propaganda. In fact it's a lot like saying that the electric cop bike does everything better than the big gas cruiser cop bike. It's simply BS.
Again, my numbers are not fabricated, and are lifted right from Zeros website.
So a gas pump is not a expensive, single purpose device, with dedicated space for a vehicle?
Nope. A gas pump will service their entire fleet except for their military type vehicle which probably need diesel. A vehicle doesn't need to sit for hours to refuel either. It's done in a matter of minutes. A fleet of electric vehicles will wind up needing dedicated charges for each parking space, or they will be constantly shuffling vehicles in and out of the charging stations. Pain in the ASS! They also already have the pumps in place, and won't be getting rid of them for decades to come at best.
I never said anything like that, of course in BizzaroSifo World that may be possible.
You said they could charge them in under an hour on their lunch breaks. Then you claimed it could be done without the expensive charger. That requires 10 hours charge time. It is the BS you claimed.
Because it can be. There are over 700 charging stations in the US, while that is a drop in the bucket compared to the number of gas stations, it is quickly growing, and like I said before, there is one right outside Reading. There is a good possibility of one opening up inside Reading now too.
That's a far cry from your BS claim of "anywhere a car can be fueled". You really need to stop shoveling. It's getting deep. Good for Reading! Are we only discussing Reading?
Thats true, the only role a Harley cruiser fills is the ability to waste taxpayer money.
Kaws and BMWs are quite popular cop bikes too. Don't let that fact get in your way. HD probably wouldn't be my first choice either, but for some reason that seems to be the focus of the gas cop bikes in this thread.
In terms of size yes, in everything else, no. Zero SR has specs that give the XB12S a run for the money.
Not if you read the specs.
Exactly what besides wasting money? Like I said before, everything they do with police bikes can be done better and cheaper by a Caprice. The Zero complements them nicely.
Honestly, I don't know why the choose to do highway patrol on bikes, especially around here where it's seasonal. The simple fact though is that they choose to do it. That is a roll that the ZERO will fail at miserably, but don't let that fact lodge anywhere between your ears. I do agree that a car (typically a Dodge Charger these days for anyone paying attention) makes more sense to me.
No it's not. I've bought over 500 Motorola radios during the time I was in business. We used they same things (in fact before they had them) that the cops and the USSS use . . the Syntor 100w UHF 99 channel.
They are not made any longer but I am currently ordering radios for the new company i am starting and the initial order was for 6 PM1500's. I'm expecting them to be about $1,500 each installed.
Motorcycle radios are MUCH more demanding and the installation requires a pro.
Cheap radios and cheap condoms are to be avoided. Some here recall when TEAM ELVES went to the Bonneville Salt Flats to race the Buell RR-1000 that we shipped in top of the line Motorola gear.
Batteries are heavier and more expensive per unit power than IC engines.
It's like paying for all your gas up front, and the tank never weighs any less.
For some applications, Fork lifts, short range commuter cars, short range police bikes, they have good value.
You want to drive to Sturgis? Get a hybrid or trailer it behind your F-150.... or F-350 diesel.
MOST of the country, geographically, is too open, and the ranges too long, for "pure electric" to be practical.
MOST of the people live in more crowded places, and electric might work for them, if they are rich.
It's still a luxury toy for the wealthy. Many people cannot afford one car to commute less than 25 (or other 1/3 battery charge distance ) miles a day, and another to drive on any trips over that distance, or when the car is charging.
Do they make a 250cc police bike? If so, it will be cheaper than the Zero, and be more versatile. It will also make more noise, pollute the air more obviously, and lack that snob appeal.
Also the IC bike won't get a grant from the Feds, which I bet you is a major factor in choosing electric vehicles by a City.
I'm watching the progress in electric airplanes.
Problem one, batteries are heavy, so unlike a car, airplanes have to be sized in wing area to carry their loads. Bigger plane, heavier, have to make it bigger, heavier, bigger... darn it, won't fly!
Problem 2, the "motor" is relatively cheap, and will get cheaper, but you are comparing it to limited production very pricey engines. Not car or motorcycle engines which have larger production runs and less paperwork. ( dear LORD! the paperwork on Milspec. )
Problem 3, Batteries are expensive, and you are not going to be able to carry yourself unless you use expensive high tech ones.
So today, electric works for a motor glider that just takes off, climbs to a few thousand feet, and shuts off the motor to soar. Works for a little fly around an hour fun plane... then wait until the batteries charge to fly late this afternoon.
One early adopter has a trailer with 2 generators, and 8 chargers to recharge his electric plane.... since they don't have 220 chargers at airports. Or accessible 110 either.
Commercial planes? Not even close.
when you can make a battery the size of a car that has the power of a tank truck full of fuel, THEN 7137's will use silent electric drives. Your electric bike can also be pretty awesome, with that energy density. The Zero of (decade after) Tomorrow will kick todays' 600 Ninja's butt.
Because today you need a battery the size of a tank truck to hold the power in that F-350's tank.
That's old news - the new Zeros are twice as good. Better suspension, speed, hours to recharge - really - like comparing the old VW bug to the new. EZ
Not sure what's old news about it. Were they way overestimating the Miles Per Kilowatt in 2012? Has that estimate been fixed? The video claims that they claimed a 112 mile range on 9kw. That's about 12.44 mpwk. He got 58.8 miles before being forced to pull over and load it in a truck. That's 6.53 mpkw. Using the biggest battery available now, 14.2kw you could now expect to go about 92.7 miles. That really limits it's usefulness as a fun toy. As a commuter bike, I can see it, but that's a very expensive commuter bike. Translating that range into a police bike doesn't look promising either. Again, for some specialized duty, sure. Typical daily use, I'm not so sure anymore. I'm not sure how comfortable I would be pushing to within a few miles of empty every day either.
So they've been out for a few years now. Who around here has bought one? They're great bikes, someone must have gotten one. Right?
Personally, If I were looking in the $17K+ range for a bike, this wouldn't be it for me. If it works for someone else, lets hear about it.
